Viper Wreck in NJ
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Well lets see.Over 47 years living in NJ i probably have been in a car 50 or more times with my cop-trooper buddys - when they were driving off duty and were caught by one of there own breaking every traffic law in the book (one time i was with my Trooper cousin who got stopped in my modded VETTE doing exactly 127 in a 55 by another trooper .The end result was they made plans to go have a few beers at the local bar when the trooper who stopped him got off duty that night ).Plain and simple in NJ one cop will not write another a ticket over a MOVING VIOLATION unless he or she is in a position where they could lose their job.Weightlifter you are commenting on police policy in a state thousands of miles from you home and quite franky are absolutely clueless as to what actually goes on here.
mangle
Viper Owner
First off, RIP to the passenger who lost his life.
I can't help but draw a parallel to the Nick Hogan wreck. While one driver was a young celebrity and the other a veteran cop, the situation (driving skill < adequate for pushing big-hp car) seems exactly the same down to the injuries sustained and the 100+ mph spin in to a solid object. One passenger made it (subject to debate), the other didn't.
Media coverage is on the same order of magnitude, but notice the difference in treatment of the driver by the media. Hogan had been convicted in the court of public opinion long before he saw a judge. The media seems almost sympathetic to the cop. I have to wonder how much "professional courtesy" will extend in to a court room since the media and public haven't presented the opportunity for the judge to make an example of him. While the laws are different in the two states, logic would dictate the outcome to be much the same. Reality appears a little disconnected.
Personally, I think that if we're dealing with normal people who feel remorse for actions that a justice system cannot effectively punish the person beyond what they're already doing to themselves. Accidents attributable to driver error happen and ruin lives, whether the driver was being totally reckless or merely driving a little over their head. I don't think sending either of them to jail will really have a positive effect on society beyond that which taking their licenses would have. I doubt we'll see either of them in a big-power car any time soon.
Thoughts?
I can't help but draw a parallel to the Nick Hogan wreck. While one driver was a young celebrity and the other a veteran cop, the situation (driving skill < adequate for pushing big-hp car) seems exactly the same down to the injuries sustained and the 100+ mph spin in to a solid object. One passenger made it (subject to debate), the other didn't.
Media coverage is on the same order of magnitude, but notice the difference in treatment of the driver by the media. Hogan had been convicted in the court of public opinion long before he saw a judge. The media seems almost sympathetic to the cop. I have to wonder how much "professional courtesy" will extend in to a court room since the media and public haven't presented the opportunity for the judge to make an example of him. While the laws are different in the two states, logic would dictate the outcome to be much the same. Reality appears a little disconnected.
Personally, I think that if we're dealing with normal people who feel remorse for actions that a justice system cannot effectively punish the person beyond what they're already doing to themselves. Accidents attributable to driver error happen and ruin lives, whether the driver was being totally reckless or merely driving a little over their head. I don't think sending either of them to jail will really have a positive effect on society beyond that which taking their licenses would have. I doubt we'll see either of them in a big-power car any time soon.
Thoughts?
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In NJ in a high profile situation if a summoms is not written then of coarse the police officer could lose his or her job.As i mentioned in my above posts PROFESSIONAL COURTESY is extended as long as it does not put the police officer extending it in a position where they could lose their job.Take a Dui For example if an off duty policeman is drunk and involved in a accident where there are witness and another party involved then hes going to get a ticket.Now if an off duty cop is drunk and no one else is involved in the accident and there are no witnesses ( hypothethically say on a deserted road he runs his car into a tree)thats an entirely different matter
93 Cobra R
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I agree with what you said and my opinion is this - for anyone involved in a serious or deadly accident (at fault or not), I seriously doubt that any judicial punishment could trump the personal anguish and regret which that person must live with for the rest of their life. So my question to everyone is this - would you consider a person, found guilty of neglect in a situation like this, to be a continued threat and danger to our society...in which tax payers should spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep them incarcerated for the next XX number of years??
After all, I bet each one of us have done one or two things in our life that we look back and ask ourselves "what was I thinking?". Which makes the majority of us very fortunate to have not injured or killed ourselves or someone else in the process. Fortunately, most of us learned from our mistakes, not from within a courtroom, but by finding ourselves guilty within our own personal trial of life.
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My opinion is this - for anyone involved in a serious or deadly accident (at fault or not), I seriously doubt that any judicial punishment could trump the personal anguish and regret which that person must live with for the rest of their life. Is this person considered to be a continued threat and danger to society, in which tax payers should spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep them incarcerated??
After all, I bet each one of us have done one or two things in our life that we look back and ask ourselves "what was I thinking?". Which makes the majority of us very fortunate to have not injured or killed ourselves or someone else in the process. Fortunately, most of us learned from our mistakes, not from within a courtroom, but by finding ourselves guilty within our own personal trial of life.
True, if we assume that the individual feels remorse, regret, anguish and has some set of moral values and a soul. There are people that will think nothing of their actions and others that will carry that guilt and suffer through the rest of their lives. We'll see if this judge will make an example of this 'victim'.
99 R/T 10
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Warfang
Enthusiast
That's why I said "most". Last I checked... most does not equal all. But frankly, I think you're a bit biased here. You're telling me NO cop ever gets professional courtesy, and if they did it would get back to superiors? How would you know if it doesn't? Can you prove a negative?
Sure, if a off duty is tearing down a school zone at 150 and pulled over drunk might be getting a talking to, but I doubt the cop that is doing 80 on a 65 stretch of freeway is going to get a ticket. It just doesn't happen. You're being disingenuous if you say otherwise.
For giggles, scan your local newspaper's "Police Blotter" section and let me know how many times you a see a police officer pulled over for any type of motor vehicle violation. If they pull me over and let me go they sure as heck are not going to pull themselves over and give each other tickets.
Too bad so sad...blah...blah...blah. Hypocrite cops got what they deserved. Just glad they didn't kill a citizen that they gave a ticket to the week before for doing the same thing. Head of the traffic safety division...too funny. Do as I say not as I do. Cops ****.
What cracks me up is you got a guy (w8lift)who lives thousands of miles from NJ (and probably the closest he has ever come to NJ is watching a Sopranos episode )commenting on whether professional courtesy is granted in NJ.Basically from the ignorance hes shown from his posts the guy (whos living in a Fantasyland )does not know his rear end from a hole in the ground as to what goes on out here.
PS- if professionsal courtesy is not granted what exactly are the dozen or so Pba cards ,Chief of police cards, 200 member cards and Trooper shield that i have in my wallet used for.(my cop friends gave them to me to use if iam pulled over.)
kcobean
Enthusiast
Man, you must have a thick wallet.
LOL...I was thinking the same thing. That or his visor is about to fall off due to the weight of those cards.
Guys any means(PBA cards ect )not to get a moving violation here esp with our Vipers drawing the kind of attention they do .NJ works on a point system (driving record is directly linked to the amount paid insurance here )predicated up what particular moving violation your cited for .I believe its 13 or more points there goes your license .
CitySnake
Enthusiast
LOL...I was thinking the same thing. That or his visor is about to fall off due to the weight of those cards.
Cut to George Costanza.....
Cut to George Costanza.....
LOL...sadly, that pales in comparison to Mamba's file folder he whipped out and gave to the trooper on our way to Saratoga earlier this year.
mike & juli
Enthusiast
LOL...sadly, that pales in comparison to Mamba's file folder he whipped out and gave to the trooper on our way to Saratoga earlier this year.
Just HEARING about that again has me falling off my chair!!! ~juli(Library card: check! Map: check! Wendy's coupon: check!
You KNOW we love you blackmamba! 
)93 Cobra R
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I never said that NO cop ever gets "professional" courtesy...but then again, do military personnel, firefighters, EMTs, judges, doctors, nurses, teachers, mail carriers, etc etc etc. Point being, basically everyone in the general public receives their share of warnings and "courtesies" from time to time. As I'm sure someone on here has been stopped for excessive speed (100-plus) in their Viper and not been issued a citation for it. Guess we can call that "Viper Courtesy" and maybe those cop basing can start a new thread complaining about that too.
Some officers have a very lenient tolerance of speed to begin with - 10, 15, or even 20 over before initiating a traffic stop, which to me is a "courtesy" to all. One officer I know only stops people at 13 over...maybe to further prove it's an unlucky number. Even so, 90% of all people pulled over will drive away with only a verbal warning, thus no citation - and they weren't even cops...it's unbelievable I know! Back to if an officer gets pulled over...yes, I'm saying, citation or not, that it's very likely to get back to their department. I'm simply stating what I've seen and experienced, because I can't speak for any other officers or their deparment's operating procedure. Anyone can obtain a badge, so wouldn't you think the initiating officer has some responsibility to verify the claim of the person flashing it? I would not take the word of anyone claiming to be a police officer on a traffic stop that I didn't know, or know of, without reporting it to my supervisor and verifying their employment status with someone from within their department.
It was one thing to report this accident here because of the relevancy of it involving a Viper. But the commentary should have remained particularly focused on extending thoughts and prayers to all those involved. Instead, some began to jump to conclusions and hand out judgments because it involved two cops. And of course, then the cop basing began. Biased or unbiased, I can clearly see both sides of the coin - or my garage if you will. Which makes me a bit more insightful about officer mindset and procedures than most. I've always been one to help out everyone when I can - including my local Viper brothers and sisters. But for those that insist on drawing the line, I can assure you, that my allegiance nor the means to uphold its resolve will ever need be in question.
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Cobra as i reiterated numerious times and so have others who LIVE in NJ .In NJ (i dont profess to know about your state )cops dont pen out or write other cops tickets unless they absolutely have to (their job is on the line )Cops dont especially write NJ State Troopers tickets (give one a ticket you give them all a ticket )In the tri-state areas cops go so far as giving courtesy or PBA card to their friends and family members to get them out of tickets.Why would all these VCA Members attest to something thats not true.
PS if watch commanders in NJ had to verify a badge or got involved every time one of their off duty guys pulled out his or her badge to get out of a speeding ticket they would not have anything else to do all day.Lets put the entire situation in perspective .NJ is the most populated state in the country per square mile.If you car is stolen in Newark you dont call the cops you call an 800 number.You really think a Serg in Newark PD is going to take the time and effort to to ream out one of his guys for speeding offduty esp since he and his superiors speed off duty as well.
93 Cobra R
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I'm well aware of what you have been posting BADGTS...for several days now...
However, most of my replies weren't directed at your specific comments. Plus, I already said, "I'm simply stating what I've seen and experienced, because I can't speak for any other officers or their deparment's operating procedure."As a side note, if NJ officers are not following up on individuals flashing badges, I really find that the most alarming of all. An officer expects to spend around 15 minutes on a traffic stop anyway, so there's time to follow up. I can use a patrol car computer to obtain their department number and verify employment faster than I can linkup to NCIC, check for warrants, verify license and registration. But if there are THAT many officers causing havoc on the roads of NJ, maybe it's time to invoke Marshal Law and let the MP's sort it out...
of course then we'd be hearing about Military Police "Courtesy". And after having served as an MP, there's probably a more suitable term - but at least no one would be speeding. 
Anyway...hopefully we can all get back to Viper oriented conversation soon.
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As i said if departments are following up on every cop who flashes their badge(off duty) up here they would not have time foe anything else (every off duty cop i know flashes his badge when stopped off duty)As far as 15 minutes on a traffic stop =thats for civilans .A typical traffic stop for say an off duty State Trooper getting stopped by a local goes exactly like this -Local =license ,registion ,insurance card .Off duty State Trooper-(holding up his badge )good evening officer Iam Trooper so and so New Jersey State Police.Can i help you out with something.Officer -no problem have a nice night.Thats the entire situation (i have seen it more times than you can shake a stick at-first hand )Alot of times the Trooper will hold his badge out the window before the cop gets out to ask for paperwork .In that senerio the cop just waves him to go.Cobra this is a common everyday thing up here with all cops from rookies to department Chiefs flash their badges EVERY TIME they are stopped off duty..They also expect professional courtesy to be extended to their friends and family members ALA PBA Cards.You guy down there dont issue COURTESY CARDs to be used by family and friends of the local PBA.?
PatentLaw
Enthusiast
You could add in Trenton, Jersey City, Elizabeth, Paterson, and Atlantic City (off the boardwalk).
My personal favorite is Camden. Always loads of fun in Camden. (Neptune and Asbury Park are for novices...
). Camden could be great.......but unfortunately it has a way to go. It's location next to Philadelphia and the transit system are first rate.....just nobody wants to wear a bullet proof vest 24 hours a day.Atlantic City should be twice the size of Vegas. It has the population centers nearby.....but the lack of law enforcement thing still plagues the city. It is much better than 10 years ago, however. You can't even recognize it is the same place.
PS....for all of you who went last year to the Winery Tour in Central NJ, you drove right past the place that rented the Viper. It is within 3 miles of the Winery. Exit 7A
Councelor, correct me if iam wrong but i would venture to say the above citys you named are probably ALL in the top 10 highest crime rates in the nation.Cobra you really should take a ride up here and see the amount of people we have per square mile (it would blow your mind .)Within approx 3 miles you can go from a 8 million dollar house on the water in Deal to lovely downtown Neptune.Or within 5 miles you can go from Navasink River road Middletown 15 million dollar homes (Bon Jovi lives and alot of celebs live on this road ) to Keansburg where probably half the town is unemployeed.It would be culture shock for you.One minute are cops are dealing with a guy in a Ferrari (who donated thousands to his local PBA )the next they are backing up a brawl in the projects.
