Vipermed airbox and ice =scary power

[poweradded]

the new lightning concept and the gt ford will have a a/c charged intercooler system, should be neat. it charges up and when you want the power you hit a button on the dash.

 

[Cop Magnet]

What about re-routing the air-conditioner to blow into the airbox? I know the A/C takes horsepower away but what if you used it to cool the engine/intake and then turned it off for the run. Or maybe the cool air would out perform the drag the A/C takes on the engine and then you could blow the cold air right into the intake?

Someone tried to accomplish this on the Viper intake with a tie into the AC unit, to cool the intake air a while back, but I don't think it worked out well.

This is an interesting idea that can/can't work for a couple of reasons. The laws of entropy apply in the widest sense--you don't get something for nothing. In other words,if you run your A/C, the power loss by definition exceeds any possible power gains. However, for transient gains, you could do what is described above; cool the box and shut down the compressor before runs.
The biggest problem I foresee with the ice method is the contact area issue. The greater the surface area for air to contact the ice, the better the effect. This is why an air-to-water intercooler would work better. Water has a much higher conductance potential for heat transfer than ice due to more efficient surface contact. This is why adding water to ice makes an ice pack cool your sore knees better. As far as applicability to this issue, if you still have a half a bag of ice left after a few runs, that tells you something about the inefficiency in this system. Not that it wouldn't work, just that it could be better.

 

[SapphireGTS]

Thats wild!

No one knows what scary is until they see how fast their viper will go in reverse.

 

[Vipermed 97.01]

Thats wild!

No one knows what scary is until they see how fast their viper will go in reverse.

Never thought about that but you got me there

 

[SapphireGTS]

Dont try it. Its like seeing ** fast you can go on a skateboard. All is fine then you totally wipe out.

I may try that with the airbox. Although the stupid engine gets so hot that it will probably be melted before I go a mile.

 

[BigCarrot]

What about re-routing the air-conditioner to blow into the airbox? I know the A/C takes horsepower away but what if you used it to cool the engine/intake and then turned it off for the run. Or maybe the cool air would out perform the drag the A/C takes on the engine and then you could blow the cold air right into the intake?

Someone tried to accomplish this on the Viper intake with a tie into the AC unit, to cool the intake air a while back, but I don't think it worked out well.

This is an interesting idea that can/can't work for a couple of reasons. The laws of entropy apply in the widest sense--you don't get something for nothing. In other words,if you run your A/C, the power loss by definition exceeds any possible power gains. However, for transient gains, you could do what is described above; cool the box and shut down the compressor before runs.
The biggest problem I foresee with the ice method is the contact area issue. The greater the surface area for air to contact the ice, the better the effect. This is why an air-to-water intercooler would work better. Water has a much higher conductance potential for heat transfer than ice due to more efficient surface contact. This is why adding water to ice makes an ice pack cool your sore knees better. As far as applicability to this issue, if you still have a half a bag of ice left after a few runs, that tells you something about the inefficiency in this system. Not that it wouldn't work, just that it could be better.

What it sounds like to me is that Vipermed just opened the bag and poured ice all over the filters. This allowed it to **** cool air through the gaps in the ice. You obviously can't totally submerge the filters with water. What I wonder is, how restrictive is the ice, and do the filters get soaked? I guess the amount of water it would ingest wouldn't be substantial, and might act like a water injection. It seems like the filter oil would basically be washed into the engine, which would probably gum up the throttle bodies at the very least.

 

[REMIX]

Back in the day I built this little removable holder for dry ice around my Grand National's intercooler. I used to hose it down and dump dry ice down there before runs. What a difference!

REMIX

 

[GaryA]

[quote-by BigCarrot]
What it sounds like to me is that Vipermed just opened the bag and poured ice all over the filters. This allowed it to **** cool air through the gaps in the ice. You obviously can't totally submerge the filters with water. What I wonder is, how restrictive is the ice, and do the filters get soaked? I guess the amount of water it would ingest wouldn't be substantial, and might act like a water injection. It seems like the filter oil would basically be washed into the engine, which would probably gum up the throttle bodies at the very least.

[/QUOTE]

I have an idea, why don't you just try it and report back to the rest of us?

 

[Miles B]

This is an interesting idea that can/can't work for a couple of reasons. The laws of entropy apply in the widest sense--you don't get something for nothing. In other words,if you run your A/C, the power loss by definition exceeds any possible power gains. However, for transient gains, you could do what is described above; cool the box and shut down the compressor before runs.

Cop Magnet,

That's not correct. This is not a simple case of "engine creates power for A/C, A/C creates power for engine". The power gain is due to the air being made more dense - the engine can draw more in, and combine it with the chemical energy in the fuel, which is what is used by the engine to deliver power. The energy taken out of the air is not a direct power producing factor. It is the fact that now you can cram more in, and thus use more fuel.. even using only a little more fuel and air makes a big power gain. Fuel has a lot of chemical energy.

Don't forget, air conditioners are also not simple endothermic/exothermic devices. They are a heat pump that typically operates approximately 250% efficient. That is, for the energy required to drive an A/C system, it removes about 2.5 times that amount of energy from the air it is cooling.

Just looking at it roughly, without doing any math, I would say there is a *decent* chance of the numbers coming out minorly in favor of this system.

 

[BigCarrot]

[quote-by BigCarrot]
What it sounds like to me is that Vipermed just opened the bag and poured ice all over the filters. This allowed it to **** cool air through the gaps in the ice. You obviously can't totally submerge the filters with water. What I wonder is, how restrictive is the ice, and do the filters get soaked? I guess the amount of water it would ingest wouldn't be substantial, and might act like a water injection. It seems like the filter oil would basically be washed into the engine, which would probably gum up the throttle bodies at the very least.

I have an idea, why don't you just try it and report back to the rest of us?

[/QUOTE]

You first! Vipermed, did you do it on the dyno by any chance?

 

[Motor City Mad Man]

I don't know if you guys have seen this product or not, but there are companies that make self-contained intake coolers that aren't going to leak water all over the place. They make one for Vipers and it is a little under $300. Check this out.

Racing Intake Coolers

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[garolittle]

I don't know if you guys have seen this product or not, but there are companies that make self-contained intake coolers that aren't going to leak water all over the place. They make one for Vipers and it is a little under $300. Check this out.

Racing Intake Coolers

You must be registered for see images

Now if there was only a spot to hold a nice cold beer in that thing I would be a buyer.

 

[Vipermed 97.01]

I don't know if you guys have seen this product or not, but there are companies that make self-contained intake coolers that aren't going to leak water all over the place. They make one for Vipers and it is a little under $300. Check this out.

Racing Intake Coolers

You must be registered for see images

Now if there was only a spot to hold a nice cold beer in that thing I would be a buyer.

Thanks Gary Great info,I just ordered a couple of blower coolers