Vipers Own the 1 Mile!!

[Moundir]

Got ya Paolo, I wish the road wasnt inclined to see what you and others really would have done So tell us more about that car of yours How much boost do you plan on running, and what kinda power are you making with it? btw congrats on your run and the completion of your beast

 

[Torquemonster]

Congratulations Paolo! A well deserved result - more amazing because of the low boost you are running. There's a lot more left in that engine yet

A good result for SVSi too - but I don't think they used anything near 1700hp to get 200mph.

 

[Paolo Castellano]

Got ya Paolo, I wish the road wasnt inclined to see what you and others really would have done So tell us more about that car of yours How much boost do you plan on running, and what kinda power are you making with it? btw congrats on your run and the completion of your beast

Mike, it is a Heffner supercharged car with a built motor. I plan on running 15-17 PSI. There are several things that have yet to be done and we are doing some high speed testing and data acquisition to possibly do a salt flat run in the future. There a lot of things that I need to figure out to go to the next level.

==> This car is no dyno queen. It is a Heffner built, Blown, V-10 ass kicking machine that will only get faster and better.

I think the most impressive thing to me about the car is how well it puts the power to the ground: It does not get squirrely at all and the power is there all the time everywhere. I can use every bit of the power, it runs cool and is one bad mother!

 

[Paolo Castellano]

Congratulations Paolo! A well deserved result - more amazing because of the low boost you are running. There's a lot more left in that engine yet

A good result for SVSi too - but I don't think they used anything near 1700hp to get 200mph.

Barry, I would have to think that they ran everything they had. They have been doing some serious testing for a very long time. I am sure they were running way more than 9 PSI.

By the way, what do you think the HP difference would be to go 8.2 MPH faster? I know I could have gone 1-2 MPH faster on the third run had I not been so low on fuel. So let's say 6-7 MPH..... How much faster in the 1/4? The 1/4 to the 1 mile mark? Their car also had the rear fascia sealed which I am sure minimizes the drag to some degree.

 

[Torquemonster]

Hey Paolo - your car is bad ***!

If the timing can be maintained and the EGT and intake temps kept within range - you know what you are going to be making at 1 bar plus!

Yeah - I agree - the SVSi car would have given it everything - it just wasn't 1700hp. It is most likely the one that ran 950rwhp on their website with 1150rwtq - that would be about right for another 8mph over 1 mile - assuming it was quick over the first 1/4. Do you agree?

 

[Paolo Castellano]

Hey Paolo - your car is bad ***!

If the timing can be maintained and the EGT and intake temps kept within range - you know what you are going to be making at 1 bar plus!

Yeah - I agree - the SVSi car would have given it everything - it just wasn't 1700hp. It is most likely the one that ran 950rwhp on their website with 1150rwtq - that would be about right for another 8mph over 1 mile - assuming it was quick over the first 1/4. Do you agree?

Barry, Thanks! I am thinking you are correct about the 950 RWHP. I am happy my car came that close to the $1,000,000.00+ Turbo car! I want to win that event next year! There is plenty of time to test and develop the big power. My car was tuned to run fat, was plenty safe and still ran the big MPH on low boost! It's really a testament to Jason Heffner's cars being insanely fast and being able to get it done!

You have to realize I just taped the hood shut after being teched and ran the car as fast as I could. Those guys pulled up in the big race rig and had the pit crew checking everything and tweaking the motec between runs. I am sure they ran as fast as they could and showed the best they had. With their million plus dollar car and years of development and testing and running standing mile races already, they beat the 28K Heffner supercharged Viper by a measly 8 MPH! We are very encouraged and will be much faster next year!

 

[Torquemonster]

$1m?! oh don't tempt me to comment I'll get banned

$28k's plus setup is pretty good value by comparison.

Full order books or lack thereof always tell a story ... darn - I said something, I'll censor myself out of here now

oh - am I allowed to ask - have you run a 100mph to 150mph pass yet... say for arguments sake from a 4000rpm in 4th gear pull? don't know why I picked that number

 

[Moundir]

Paolo, I wanna see you run that ****** on 15lbs of boost That will be one sick **** When you say built motor, do you mean stroked, or just reinforced? Jason does build some sick [******], cant wait to run into one his cars on the street, you know of any Heffner cars in the Ny area???

 

[Paolo Castellano]

$1m?! oh don't tempt me to comment I'll get banned

$28k's plus setup is pretty good value by comparison.

Full order books or lack thereof always tell a story ... darn - I said something, I'll censor myself out of here now

oh - am I allowed to ask - have you run a 100mph to 150mph pass yet... say for arguments sake from a 4000rpm in 4th gear pull? don't know why I picked that number

Torquemonster, those guys have spent at least that over the years on that car with all the R&D. I drove that car a few years ago and knew I had to have that kind of power. I am just glad Jason Heffner is able to make that kind of power for a very reasonable price that has been very, very reliable. I have driven the you know what out of the car after the prescribed top secret Heffner break-in procedure! Bikes every night 100-200!==> I love it!

==>100-150 MPH takes place in less than 6 seconds standing on the gas in 4th gear @ 4,000 RPM! It is faster if I do 3-4, but 5200 RPM in 3rd gear @ 100 MPH to 6000 RPM takes about a second. Also, 80-150 goes by in about 7.5 seconds. For comparison sake, the Venom 800 in the Car & Driver magazine 2,000 HP shootout last year did 100-150 in 7.9 seconds. The LPE Vette did it in 7.6 seconds. I know the Venom 1000 cars are faster, but they are running more boost than me as well.

 

[Paolo Castellano]

Paolo, I wanna see you run that ****** on 15lbs of boost That will be one sick **** When you say built motor, do you mean stroked, or just reinforced? Jason does build some sick [******], cant wait to run into one his cars on the street, you know of any Heffner cars in the Ny area???

Mike, you and me both want to see 15 PSI!

==> Built motor in the sense of custom billet rods, ross pistons, balance and blueprint, machined block, polished crank, billet main caps and some other top secret goodies I am not at liberty to discuss. It is not stroked, just bored .010 over to clean up the cylinder walls.

I think you have to ask Heffner if there are any of his cars in the NY area. The beauty is that NY is not all that far from Heffner in Baltimore, Md. If you ever come to Chicago, I will take you for a ride you will never forget!

 

[Moundir]

sweet, thanx for the offer It's pretty cool cause I think I will be running ~14-15 lbs of boost as well I will be visiting a friend in Maryland once I get my car back. I'll stop by Jason's shop to see what he's got running over there

 

[Torquemonster]

Quote: "100-150 MPH takes place in less than 6 seconds standing on the gas in 4th gear @ 4,000 RPM! It is faster if I do 3-4, but 5200 RPM in 3rd gear @ 100 MPH to 6000 RPM takes about a second. Also, 80-150 goes by in about 7.5 seconds. For comparison sake, the Venom 800 in the Car & Driver magazine 2,000 HP shootout last year did 100-150 in 7.9 seconds. The LPE Vette did it in 7.6 seconds. I know the Venom 1000 cars are faster, but they are running more boost than me as well."

Those would be some of the quickest times I've ever seen for a high speed road car. Drag cars are one thing - but this is quite a different beast. Do you realise the average family car cannot go 0 - 50mph in under 6 seconds? It takes massive power to run that from 100-150. Enjoy! And stop picking on the poor little superbikers - they don't stand a chance!

....speaking of whom - did you ever see the crap going down on the 'bussa forum when Gerald beat a bussa twice on video in a couple of fun runs? There was more than a few bussa owners who were certain they would own any Viper out there and the "problem" was simply that "they" were not riding .... if you meet any of those arrogant riders in Chicago (closed track of course) - do us all a favour and humble them. All they'll then be able to say is "well you've got a supercharger and my weanie hasn't - wait till you meet my mate's 450hp turbo Bussa!" ...but at least they'll go home knowing they got owned!

 

[Tom and Vipers]

Don't forget that Cd is proportional to stagnation pressure.

At 200 mph, the HP required for an additional 1 mph is quite large.

 

[Gerald]

man, aint that the truth. They would claim that it takes 700rwhp for a viper to beat a 'STOCK' (the key word here is STOCK Hayabusa). I kept repeatign that my car was about at the 800rwhp number, and yet they still let it go on for about 17 pages! www.suzukihayabusa.org is the website. In the General Discussion area. funny read. I rode my 'busa and Moundir rode my car and destroyed me at the top of 4th. I gave it everything I had. They couldn't comprehend that the bike was stock and I weigh now a fat 230 lbs..
They kept saying that I should run someone else and they can't handle the fact that I raced one on the street and also posted that video (with me screaming like a little school girl.. LOL! )

 

[Torquemonster]

that wasn't screaming like a schoolgirl Gerald - that was the ancient male ritual that we all exercise after a kill - called the victory howl! I recognised it instantly...

Paolo knows the victory ritual too - isn't that right Paolo

The only people who don't get excited about their victories are the numb nuts that probably aren't sure what they just did anyway... you know the type - walks with a carrot between his legs, arms out wide like his BO won't let them hang... "F#k, Der dunno there Bob, I just didn't F'n back off u-know, and there was this noise and $hit, and I was f'n ******* man... anyways we came home wiv da result... cheers!"

 

[Paolo Castellano]

Don't forget that Cd is proportional to stagnation pressure.

At 200 mph, the HP required for an additional 1 mph is quite large.

Tom, this is a chart for RWHP needed for a certain top speed based on tire diameter, gearing, CD and frontal area. For top speed, at 200 MPH, a Viper will need around 7.5 RWHP for every additional MPH. Compare this to needing around 4 RWHP for every additional MPH @ 140 MPH and needing 11.75 RWHP for each additional MPH @ 260 MPH.

As far as the standing mile is concerned, Everybody kept getting faster with each run. I do not necessarily think we were getting more HP, just a better feel for going through the gears quickly enough as to not lose MPH from slow shifts against high drag.



ENTER AXLE RATIO 3.07
ENTER GEAR RATIO 0.62
ENTER EFFECTIVE TIRE DIA 25.8
RESULTING CONSTANT 24.80


ENTER Cd 0.35
ENTER FRONTAL AREA (FT^2) 22
RESULTING CONSTANT 1.664E-05



ENTER HP
RPM HP REQ'D SPEED AVAILABLE @ RPM

3500 190 141 400
3600 206 145 430
3700 222 149 472
3800 239 153 495
3900 257 157 508
4000 276 161 522
4100 296 165 548
4200 317 169 570
4300 338 173 585
4400 361 177 595
4500 385 181 607
4600 409 185 628
4700 435 190 647
4800 461 194 675
4900 489 198 695
5000 518 202 700
5100 548 206 718
5200 579 210 740
5300 611 214 770
5400 644 218 790
5500 679 222 815
5600 714 226 825
5700 751 230 835
5800 789 234 844
5900 829 238 835
6000 870 242 827
6100 912 246 820
6200 955 250 817
6300 1000 254
6400 1046 258
6500 1093 262

 

[THISLDO]

All of you are correct in that the Vipers did very well in the top speed portion of the one mile shoot out during last weekends Sandhills Open Road Challenge. As a Corvette owner....only more so (I drive ZR-1's) I was very pleased to see the Viper guys show up in better numbers than our first year. When I first learned that some turbo guys would be coming I accepted the fact that my friend who won the KOTH last year probably would be out gunned. Please consider this post as an invitation to next years event and please bring all of the horsepower you can. The crowd loves it and the compitition only improves our event.

That said, there are a number of facts and observations that I will impart. The elevation of the one mile track is closer to 3,000 feet rather than 2,500. The fact that the road has an up hill slope was not planned. The site was selected simply because it was the best piece of county road that could be found. It is straight, is very smooth, and is great for spectators.

The speeds that I have seen posted on this site for stock Vipers do not reflect real world numbers. There is no way a stock Viper of 2002 vintage and older will break 160 MPH at our altitude. In one mile I am always skepticle of the numbers the car mags publish, 173 MPH here for a Viper with no mods is a fantasy. The following is very good representation of what the average car without mods will run in a mile:

C-5 Corvette 145/147 MPH
ZO6 Corvette 152/154 MPH
GTS Viper 154/156 MPH
ZR-1Corvette 150/152 MPH

Bob Griffith's GTS ran very near 160 last year but I think he had some after market goodies. This year Bob came back with a NOS sytem and knocked down 188. The car that posted a speed of 180 MPH last year is a Mallet 385 ZR-1 with a 200 shot of NOS. John was the man to beat until the turbosnakes decided to come. Overall some the Corvettes did very well. Although I admire the Viper's power and speed I am quite happy with my 12 year old car that will, so far, out run any Viper without boost in the mile. I wagered a six pack aginst any Viper without boost this year to the Denver Viper guys in hopes of aggravating them enough to get them here. Several showed up but none took me up on the bet so I didn't get my free beer. Hopefully some of you will read this and decide to come next year and accept the bet. My ZR-1 has only light mods (headers, P&P plenum, Corsas) and makes only 395 RWHP. It consistantly runs 163-164 MPH in the mile and has been able to beat all of the unboosted Vipers I have encountered.

From talking to all the Viper folks that were here I gathered that they enjoyed themselves as much as we did having them as guests. If you have a Viper and want to come and try to spank Corvettes our event is for you. Just remember that my bet stands for next year so bring that snake here and we will see who has to buy the beer. This really is not a fair bet. If you come and I out run your car, I win. You come and beat me I still win because you will took part in the event. Start making plans now because we will fill our grid much sooner than last year.

Joe Shown
V/P Sandhills Open Road Challenge

 

[Torquemonster]

Hey welcome Joe! Great post and sounds like everyone had a blast. There's got to be someone on the forum wanting free beer to spank a ZR-1

long as it's cold beer

 

[Paolo Castellano]

Joe, I would like to thank you for running such a good event! Everything was very well organized and ran like clockwork. I would also like to tell everyone here that the group of volunteer people who help you run your event were very nice and down to earth people who know their stuff! I will be attending next year for sure! I will make sure to have enough 93 octane gas to complete the third run next time! Thanks again for organizing such a good event and I am sure this next year will fly by literally and figuratively!

 

[Casey]

Joe, sorry I screwed up and missed out on this years Event. It won't happen again next year!
Sounds like the event was a Huge 'HISSING' success!! I have only heard great things from everyone!
Can I send in my application now for next year??
Congrats and I look forward to seeing you next summer!

 

[Russ M]

Joe,

Sorry but your numbers for the GTS are way low or the zo6/zr1 way high. There is no way stock to stock a zo6 or zr1 is going to be hanging on the rear bumper of a gen2 viper by the end of a 1/4 mile, not to mention 1 mile.

 

[Birvini]

What happened to the supercharged SVS Viper? I could be wrong, but it was my understanding that SVS was running two cars. Any one know how it did?

 

[Torquemonster]

perhaps after the first 1/4 mile the superior CD of the Vette takes over and enables it to close the gap slightly?

But then I could be talking thru a hole in my A$$

Anyone?

 

[Casey]

Don't Vettes give up near the end of the 1/4 and just wait to see brake lights before they catch up to a Viper!!

Here's a dumb question? Does removing your mirrors help in a race as long as the Standing Mile? I have heard many times that it does/doesn't help in the 1/4. It makes sense to me that it couldn't hurt to have them off!

 

[GR8_ASP]

Dumb question. If the GTS top speed is significantly higher than the Z06 and the speed at the 1/4 mile point is several mph higher in the Vipers favor, how could the Z06 close the gap? I don't buy it.

Torquemonster - the Cd comment is a good point. But the Viper's horsepower versus drag is superior to the Z06 (witness the higher Viper drag limited top speed). More drag? Yes. But much more horsepower to overcome that disadvantage.

 

[THISLDO]

Joe,

Sorry but your numbers for the GTS are way low or the zo6/zr1 way high. There is no way stock to stock a zo6 or zr1 is going to be hanging on the rear bumper of a gen2 viper by the end of a 1/4 mile, not to mention 1 mile.

The numbers that I posted are not hypothetical. They are true numbers from the Vipers and Corvettes that have run our one mile event. The fastest non-boost GTS posted a top speed of 159.8 MPH but had headers and other modest goodies. The fastest stock Vipers we have had, ran from 154 to 156. The fastest stock ZO6 turned 153.6 and the fastest stock ZR-1 turned 152. The truth is that I have not seen a Viper without boost of some kind break 160 MPH in our one mile event. I believe Viper owners are no different than other car people in their optimisim to believe that their cars are faster than they are. No doubt that stock Vipers are fast in one mile but they don't even come close to the 170 MPH mark in our event unlike the ones in the magazines. You guys know these cars better than I, are the 2003/4 models 10 MPH faster in a mile than older GTS's? I am not fudging the numbers here just posting what we have learned in the last two years. If you will review my original post I pointed out that the stock ZO6 and ZR-1 were 2 to 6 MPH slower in the mile than the Vipers we have seen. remember, we are talking speed here and not E.T. For those who were wondering how long it took to run the mile I have the following observation. Using a stop watch I timed my ZR-1 using last years in car video. I posted a speed of 164 MPH and the watch measured 30 seconds. I assume this method to be fairly accurate but have no idea if there is any devience in the speed of the tape etc..

Joe Shown

 

[Torquemonster]

The results are what they are, driver and tires also play a part as well as the elevation. The first two affect comparitive between Viper and Vette, the elevation could easily cost 10mph.

If one of the Viper owners who can run mid 11's in a stock(ish) Viper ran there - I'm sure they'd squeeze a bit more out of them.... hopefully next year more Vipers will turn up - it is awesome that they invite the Vipers to come - I think that is great!

 

[Fast Freddy]

Re: Vipers Own the 1 Mile!!

i have a secret place that i do some high speed testing out here in arizona. the elevation of this particular piece of asphalt is about 1,100 feet above sea level. it is a downhill run with approximately a 5% grade. anyway, from a dead stop my viper bone stock (prior 2 my exhaust mods) hit 180 mph in 1 mile. my stock 97 vette (6-speed) b4 i modded it hit 165 mph. my 2001 camaro ss with no nitrous and some intake and computer mods hit 155 mph. my 2001 ford lightning with a few mods hit 145 mph. of the 4 rides the vette felt the loosest (floaty). believe it or not the truck was the most stable. but upon further inspection after i stopped i realized that the air dam must have been trying to fold in upon itself because a rubber piece at the bottom of the engine bay tore loose from the wind turbulence. talk about a flying brick. all of my high speed testing is done in the winter when air temps are cooler and therefore produce more horsepower. also i have verified my altitude and speed with my magellan 315 gps. believe it or not all of my factory speedometers are accurate.

 

[KenH]

Re: Vipers Own the 1 Mile!!

Freddy, Good Info!

Now can you run them the other way (up the 5 degree incline) and report back?

Actually, I am surprised that the magazines don't publish more environmental info on their top speed runs. Elevation, temperature and inclines/banking must have a significant affect.

--- Ken

 

[Fast Freddy]

Re: Vipers Own the 1 Mile!!

hey kenH, that is a great idea. why didn't i think of that. i guess that's why u get paid the big bucks. in the meantime i will do it in the 110 degree heat to see how much slower i can make my viper go.