VOI Display and Today's (final) Supercharger Test

[Sean Roe]

VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

Hi Everyone,

Roe Racing has four booth spaces at VOI, in the hotel, directly to the left of the Mopar setup. Becky and I will both be there. Please stop by and say hello. We will have a car with the supercharger in our display, as well as a complete system, built and sitting on a table for your review, in addition to our "regular" items.

Now, onto today's test.
We put 1.7 roller rockers, intake and exhaust, onto the car with the existing parts

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#30 is with the standard VEC1 settings and #31 is with a richer mixture setting on the VEC1. The dyno run without the VEC1, not scanned, is virtually identical to #31, with the big mid-range dip in the graph.
This is as far as we're going for now. I wanted to see how efficient we could make the combination of upgrades and what kind of power we could get out of it at only 5 lbs of boost. Why 5 lbs? Because the piston manufacturer told us they wouldn't recommend more than that on the cast pistons and I don't want to change the fuel pump on our car (forged pistons).

I'll post the average gas mileage the car is getting (highway, city and punching it) as soon as I top off the tank.

Sean

PS.,
What drivetrain loss correction factor should we use to show estimated flywheel HP in our VOI display literature?
600 divided by .85 (the industry standard 15%) would equate to 705 HP at the crank.

<FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Sean Roe on 08-15-2002 at 03:15 PM</font>

 

[treynor]

Re: VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

Sean -- very impressive, and congratulations!

As for driveline loss, I'd use the same 15% as everyone else, but show the dyno sheet too. As has correctly been pointed out, at the end of the day the power at the wheels is what's relevant.

I look forward to finally meeting you at VOI.

 

[GASDOC]

Re: VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

Sean,how much HP is gained with the 70mm TBs alone?1.7 rockers alone?Removing the cats alone?With your existing system.Just trying to figure out whats the best bang-for-the-buck upgrade for what the average Viper owner already has installed on his car(Like me!)

 

[Nadine UK GTS]

Re: VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

Oh my...I really can't wait for VOI in more ways than one now!

(trying not to bounce around the room already in anticipation!)

Is it just look-see, or can we 'touch' the worshiped S/C?

 

[GTS-R 001]

Re: VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

Sean,

The numbers look great! Are you stocking the T&D's? If so add them to my supercharger order. If this is your final dyno pull, does this mean you're getting close to shipping the first 50 kits?

Steve Prescott

 

[Sean Roe]

Re: VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

Ben,
Thanks. 600 RWHP was a personal goal and I'm glad we made it there with what looks to be a fairly straight-forward combination of bolt-on's. Hope to see the beast Doug's building for you at VOI and look forward to seeing you there.

GasDoc,
Fortunately, the answers to those questions are easy. Since we finished the final production version of the supercharger, we've been methodically testing upgrades. I have the dyno results for each. I will be putting them in order and making copies for VOI and our website. If you did a search of my SC dyno posts over the last 5 months you would be able to see the progression as well.
To answer your question a little more directly, (from memory) the 70 mm's made about 10-12 more HP and TQ at the rear wheels in the mid-range over the stock TB's. But the peak only went up about 7 or so. I like the 70's better because they give you a lot of punch with little throttle movement.
The only thing we did that did not add power was the removal of the cats. I thought our 3" high flow may not have been flowing enough. But when we took them out, there was no gain. I will put them back in when I get a chance.

Nadine,
The kit will be sitting on a table for you to poke and prod. The entire assembly will be bolted together without being on the motor and looks sharp fully assembled.
Here's a kit waiting for the intake tubes and some misc. parts.

Steve,
I used the Arrow 1.7's, not the T&D's. We don't stock the T&D's (special order item). I've now used both. If I were racing, I'd use the T&D's since they join all the stud mounting points together which gives the assembly greater strength and is good if you're running increased valve spring pressure. But for the street, I'm satisfied with the Arrow's. I quized Todd at Arrow extensively before making my purchase decision and I checked them over thouroghly before instaling them (used shorter pushrods).

Kits will be shipping next month.

<FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Sean Roe on 08-15-2002 at 05:29 PM</font>

 

[GATOR SERPENT]

Re: VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

Sean, Congrats. A lot of work that has appeared to have paid off based on the dyno. The dyno numbers are impressive. Though, NOT as impressive as DRIVING the car.

 

[Jason Heffner]

Re: VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

WOW! That really looks great Sean. Congratulations. I have a good Idea of the amount of time spent developing something like that and I'm glad to see it work out so well for you. Will you be providing sunglasses with each kit so someone doesn't get blinded.

Those are some very impressive numbers also. Good luck.

 

[varanus]

Re: VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

Sean, none of my constant calls telling you I wanted 600rwhp as a goal influenced this goal of yours-did it?
errr . . .I meant 700rwhp

Great job!

I'm waiting delivery . . . .

 

[VPRVENM97]

Re: VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

Sean, great results! Congratulations on a job well done.

Are you running 3:07's or 3:55's on your test car? What gearing would you recommend for overall street driving?

 

[varanus]

Re: VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

Dave, I have run the 200 shot of NOS with kuhmos and 3.54. With a progressive timer hitting about 80 hp shot at the end of first and 200 in 2nd, i got good traction if the tires were warm( eg after 10 miles of freeway driving) With the lower hp of the sc and much lower torque compared to the nitrous, I am staying with my 3.54 for now.
Ahh . . .another trip to the chiropractor for my neck is just around the corner

I can't wait!

 

[GONABITE]

Re: VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

Sean,

Awesome job can't wait to get mine in the mail. Great work the wait was well worth it. Can't wait for the sequel!!


Michael

 

[CitySnake]

Re: VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

Sean:

Since your SC quest began, you seem to have produced an additional 50 rwhp for each month of development/delay. For the record, (and I bet I speak for plenty of us) please consider another 2 months "delay".

On a more serious note, would you mind speaking to some of us about the additional mods that you've tested with the system before you ship? I may well be interested in a few.

 

[tradin1]

Re: VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

What about the GEN I guys, have you figured out where to put the alternator yet???

 

[Keller]

Re: VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

Sean
First off, awesome work!! Can't wait to get mine (need to find a Viper 1st

) I am a little confused about something in your initial post. The dyno sheet says 1996 Viper but you also state that you have cast pistons in the car? 96's have forged. DId you do this so you could sell the kit as tested to the cast guys or is the sheet wrong?
Thanks
Josh

 

[VPRVENM97]

Re: VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by varanus:
Dave, I have run the 200 shot of NOS with kuhmos and 3.54. With a progressive timer hitting about 80 hp shot at the end of first and 200 in 2nd, i got good traction if the tires were warm( eg after 10 miles of freeway driving) With the lower hp of the sc and much lower torque compared to the nitrous, I am staying with my 3.54 for now.
Ahh . . .another trip to the chiropractor for my neck is just around the corner

I can't wait!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kevin,
Thanks for the input. I've been on the fence over this 3:07 vs 3:54 but in the end I'll probably be going to the 3:54's.

 

[RedGTS]

Re: VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

Josh: That's not what Sean said, although I can understand why you read it that way. What he said was "Why 5 lbs? Because the piston manufacturer told us they wouldn't recommend more than that on the cast pistons and I don't want to change the fuel pump on our car (forged pistons)." In other words, the reason he's going with 5 lbs is because that's safe for the cars that have cast pistons, AND because he doesn't want to change the fuel pump on his own car, which has forged pistons (a pump upgrade would be necessary with more boost).

Dave: I am not Sean's spokesman, but I asked him the gear question several weeks ago. Sean is running 3:07's in his car, and he told me previously (one or two upgrades ago in fact) that he was at the limit of traction at WOT in second (which I interpret to mean that WOT in first is spin city). Therefore, he recommended sticking with the stock 3:07's.

Ronnie

 

[SneakyPete]

Re: VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedGTS:

Dave: I am not Sean's spokesman, but I asked him the gear question several weeks ago. Sean is running 3:07's in his car, and he told me previously (one or two upgrades ago in fact) that he was at the limit of traction at WOT in second (which I interpret to mean that WOT in first is spin city). Therefore, he recommended sticking with the stock 3:07's.

Ronnie<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have driven Sean's car in final S/C version and it is a handfull with the stock 307's. 3rd gear doing 70 MPH at 3000 RPM's, punch the throttle to floor and tire immediately start spinning.

I think a stock car with 355's is pretty close to what sean's car is running with 307's. Gears are a great replacement for HP, but at 600+ RWHP traction becomes and issue.

 

[Gerald]

Re: VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

Trust me guys, you DON"T want any taller gears if you've got the s/c'er. It will REALLY render 1s and 2nd USELESS to a point..


Gerald

 

[V10 MOJO]

Re: VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

im a bbit confused here as all i am is an expert driver not a tech or mechanic, LOL. so since i have 3:55 this SC may not be in my best interests? a previous post said a stock with 3:55 is about equal to seans SC with 3:07? thats hard to believe. and i am about to put random tech hiflow cats on, so should i even do that now with a SC or just stay corsa catback, stock cats and roe SC as a complete setup? **** im confused now

 

[1TONY1]

Re: VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

My take on the 3.07 verses 3.55, I won't sign up that the 3.07 is better except in the 1/4 mile if it makes you shift into 5th gear. And then somebody will have to prove to me that the 3.07 car will catch the 3.55 because it will be behind if launched/tires/60' is like it should be. Everybody saying it spins in this gear and that gear bla bla bla. PICK another gear. I don't see all the nitrous guys with a 150 shot or better whining about the gears. Not to mention everyday drivability.

 

[varanus]

Re: VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VPRVENM97:
Kevin,
Thanks for the input. I've been on the fence over this 3:07 vs 3:54 but in the end I'll probably be going to the 3:54's.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dave, if you want to try mine out first
e mail me and we will meet.-we live close enough.
I think you will like them a lot

 

[VPRVENM97]

Re: VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

Ronnie, Slithrn, Gerald, Tony, Kevin...Thanks for your input. Your opinion really matters (have we heard that line before?)

I'll just keep it stock for now and see how it runs after the S/C. Kevin, I'll try yours out after both our rides are S/C'd. If I was going to stay N/A then definately 3:54's

 

[Sean Roe]

Re: VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

The gear, in my opinion, is just personal preference.

I like the 3.07 with the torque the car now has. It pulls real hard for a long time without having to shift. Even with the 3.07, I can start in 2nd gear, from a stop, and not bog the motor letting the clutch out at 1,000 RPM (man does it light the tires up if you try to get on it). It in fact suprised me after I put the rockers in by breaking loose at 2,500 rpm in 3rd (60 mph).

But, if I wanted it to pull harder and knew that I could only make good use of it in 4th to 6th, I'd put in 3.55's. With a shorter rear gear (numerically higher), you'd just have to be more cautious in 1st through 3rd and know that they will break loose if you accelerate too much. Without the SC, 3.55 would be the gear of my choice, though the two together (SC and 3.55) wouldn't be bad either.

Like Gerald, I prefer the 3.07. However, you can use whatever gear you'd like, it will still be a blast to drive.

Sean

 

[utahviper]

Re: VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

I need some help on a fuel system for this supercharger, does anyone have any recommendations? I need something that will accomodate at least 750rwhp and upto 950rwhp. I am looking to run this at 8 lbs of boost(28RWHP/LB of Boost) and possibly put a 200 shot of nitrous on it later.

I am very impressed with the numbers this supercharger is putting out. It seems like Sean gained 30rwhp with bigger exhaust and T&D's. I am hoping/asssuming with better flowing heads and a cam that the HP/TQ will also rise. It would be incredible to be able to get 250RWHP/TQ more than what I have now. I really need a fuel system that will accomodate this power gain.

 

[1TONY1]

Re: VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

Rdustman, I don't think that SLITHRN meant a stock car w 3.55's is as FAST as 3.07 and s/c, if so that would be incorrect. I think maybe he meant there is not a WHOLE lot of difference in the two ratios....SLITHRN: clarification please. I would put the cats on and the s/c on. Then if you don't like your 3.55's it will be simple enough to go back to a stock gear. The best gear for this set up remains to be seen. One thing no one will (or should) debate is that you will not go wrong with either gear and the s/c. Geralds advice may be correct, however

he is not very familiar with lower horsepower cars.

Sean, Do you have any pics of the production intake tubes(after t/b)?

 

[Sean Roe]

Re: VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

No, we're still waiting on the intake tubes. They're being built by an aircraft tubing fabrication company in Michigan. Should get them the first part of September, then they'll go in for powdercaoting.

That's one thing about building a positive displacement production kit instead of a centrifugal kit (for the Viper). We had to build and include additional parts, like the intake manifold assembly, air tubes, etc., which increased the costs and take more time.

Sean

 

[Clayton Kresge]

Re: VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

Great numbers Sean! Congrats!

 

[SmokinV10]

Re: VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

Sean,
Im sitting in front of the computer drooling! Ive got some issues to sort though here before I can make a purchase. There have been many unforseen events that have put most of my viper activities on hold. But if all pans out well, I should be on your next production run. Congratulations on the Great numbers. Looks great. Thanks for the update!!

 

[TacDoc]

Re: VOI Display and Today\'s (final) Supercharger Test

Sean,
For all us weekend mechanics, can you make the install manual available on your website for download so we can see what is involved. This sounds like a simple enough job I could handle it, but then I have erred before.