Warning about Elite Motorsports

[lleone]

The letter Joyce sent me today (posted above) has left me wondering what is going on down there in Florida. I decided to send her another response. Here it is:
----------------------------------------------------
Joyce,

What was the point of the email you sent me today? You state:

> Scott is a good hard and honest working man.

You say he'd an honest man yet he wrote on 14 June 2004:

"Very sorry for not updating you on its arrival .Yes we are in possesion of it and will be doing a complete overhaul.We will do it as expediciously as possible.we have already ordered the pistons and cylinder liner,all else will be replaced as a precautionary measure."

And on 23 June 2004:

"Can't thank you enough for your continuance patience. We are waiting on the new Ross Pistons which should arrive next week. Block work is completed, awaiting assembly."

And you wrote on 30 June 2004:

"Talked to Scott today and he informed me that the pistons should arrive Friday or no later than Tuesday. If everything goes well, he is hoping to freight the motor back to you by the end of next week."

And Scott again on 08 July 2004:

"As said before thanks for your patience. Pistons have been received and are being pressed to new rods. Assembly will be begin this weekend and I foresee shipping for mid next week. I will express ship to you."

Joyce, I have verified with Ross Racing that the pistons in my block were ordered by Scott in January 2004. NO new pistons from this job lot were ordered.

How can expect me to believe that "Scott is a good hard and honest working man." in light of the evidence?

Do you see how it looks to me? Can you appreciate my position? How can say he is an "honest working man" when I have been so blatantly lied to?

Hoping you have a rational explanation,
Lou
----------------------------------------------------

We'll see if I get a response.

Lou

 

[J DAWG]

please tell me he at least threw in a free Vipair for all your troubles...




if not, I would sue his a$$.

 

[Jay Herbert]

Vic's right, locking threads just leads to another thread including more of the same.

The board policy is pretty clear on this:

First (Rule 2):
Personal assaults, threats, use of copyrighted material, fraudulent statements, or comments derogatory to any ethnicity or orientation will be deleted.

Second (Rule 3):
Negative statements about vendors, customers, or others must be first hand, and substantiated. Furthermore, we reserve the right to hold negative posts until substantiated, and to give the parties reasonable time to work it out.

To this point, the thread does not violate either of these rules, so it, like the other aforementioned world record thread, has no reason to be removed.

If both parties decide to take it "off-line" than we would oblige in order to give the two parties time, away from the spotlight, to work things out. In the end, it is hoped that all could be worked out.... and a happy ending be written.

Let's try and keep it between the lines.

 

[lleone]

Jay, thanks for weighing in. I still wish it could be resolved amicably. We'll have to wait and see if Scott and Joyce stop stonewalling me.

Lou

 

[lleone]

Bump:

I have created an online petition to request a ban of Scott Schenfield, dba Elite Motorsports, from viperclub.org. It is available directly at http://vipers.telperion.com/pet or is available from a link on the pics page at http://vipers.telperion.com

Lou

 

[Supercharged Vipermad]

Bump:

I have created an online petition to request a ban of Scott Schenfield, dba Elite Motorsports, from viperclub.org. It is available directly at http://vipers.telperion.com/pet or is available from a link on the pics page at http://vipers.telperion.com

Lou

Very premature....but if you feel the need and it makes you feel better. Suffice to say that what I have read so far comes nowhere near the need for your "ban". And yes...I have read more than just what you have written here. Again, all I hope for is that the smoke clears and resolution is found!

 

[Vic]

I have confirmed with Ross (the manufacturer) that the pistons were bought by Elite in January 2004 and that no new ones were ordered this summer.

Once again, I ask Scott and Joyce to explain why I was lied to

Lou

Its painfully obvious to me why he lied about ordering them in the summer, when they were really ordered in January. Working on Vipers in his spare time, he is way too busy to turn around a motor in a reasonable amount of time. When the proverbial sh*t hits the fan, he tries to say something plausible to appease the customer. A little white lie to avoid the truth, the truth being that the pistons were probably sitting around for months waiting for him to get to the work, when he is not fighting fires. NOTE- I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS RIGHT OR GOOD IN ANY WAY, I'm just saying thats what most likely happened, thats the reason for the lie. Understanding human behavior is not rocket science, its obvious that people lie to avoid the truth, which sometimes is not pleasant, and sometimes can lead to more trouble for them. Again, I'm not saying this is good behavior, I'm just pointing out why people lie. Its verry verry simple.

In the construction industry, there are specific time frames for completion of the project. The terms of payment, scope of work, etc, are extremely detailed, spelled out in the contract, and there is legal recourse for breach of contract by either side. Sometimes there is an early completion bonus spelled out in writing, and most often, there is a late completion penalty known as "liquidated damages", which, depending on the project, can range from a few hundred a day, to tens of thousands or more a day. There is also "retention" of 10%, payable after the job has been finally accepted by the owner. A "performance and payment bond", a kind of insurance, is issued to the owner by the contractor to protect the progress of the project and interest of the owner from unfortunate incidents, like the death or bankruptcy of the contractor, or just plain non-performance by the contractor. If the contractor is in a clear breach of contract, the owner can call the bond company, and have the project completed by another contractor, at no further cost to the owner. And if the owner breaches the contract, the contractor can use the mechanic's lien laws to tie up the title to the property, or cease work until payment is made per contract terms.

In contrast, the tuner industry is a small cottage industry, frequently work is done with no contract, no terms, no penalties, no time frame spelled out for completion, etc, etc. You can imagine how that turns out....... Thats why public contract laws got made, to protect both parties in a project.

A written contract should be made before entering into any kind of agreement. That way, you have a clear understanding of the terms and process of the work, and easier legal recourse in case either party breaches the contract. **** agreements are enforceable to some extent, depending on the state, but usually the litigation contains a lot of he-said, she-said, and in the end, 6 dogs are fighting over one bone with a small chunk of meat on it. Much better to get it in writting!

 

[Vic]

Vic's right, locking threads just leads to another thread including more of the same.

Thanks for thinking of me, but I didn't say that!

 

[SilverBlueGTS]

The silence from Scott at Elite is defening.

JT

 

[Mark Red GTS Cooper]

Well,

My saga continues, After almost 5 months trying to get a hood and diffuser, I give up.

I will be adding a new topic later today and post pics of the hood and diffuser that Scott sent. His words were,

It is pefect, it is going to look great on your car. The paint came out pefrect. Well,, You all can be the judge,,

Maybe he had a fire, or something else happen in his life, becuase he sure did not put anytime into the paint prep or paint job. It sure helps to use credit cards,,

I will set up the pics in a few..

Oh ya,, so far, no more calls or emails from the Joyce or Scott,, I am I suprised or what.

 

[Vipera Russelli]

Wow! This is looking so underhanded that I'm starting to wonder just how long will it be before we have to misspell Elite Motorsports on this board to avoid getting an automatic "[******]" as we do with another not-so-reputable tuner?

Let's see... Eliite, EElitte, Ellite...

 

[lleone]

Here's the latest from Joyce:
----------------------------------------------------
Lou
Please provide me with a fax# and i will send you a paid reciept for NEW ross pistons/rings and oil rail supports dated june25 along with the certifed check reciept to Ross pistons and i think that will clear the Question of Scotts honesty
Joyce
-----------------------------------------------------

It was really nice of Joyce to fax the information to me. Unfortunately, it didn't answer anything as you'll see from my response to Joyce:
------------------------------------------------------
Joyce,
It appears you and Scott and some things to talk about.
One of the nice things that Ross does is record the job cart number on the bottom of each piston. This way the information can be retrieved from Ross in the event that a replacement piston needs to be ordered or any other information about the pistons is needed. Take a look at the job number inscribed on the bottom of the pistons which were in the motor shipped to me. http://vipers.telperion.com/IMG_2990.jpg is an example and you can clearly see them in other pictures on http://vipers.telperion.com. The job number on those pistons is 100634 (the letter after the job number indicates the cylinder). The fax you sent me has a job cart number of 102887. The pistons referenced in your fax are not the ones in my motor.
Any thoughts?
Lou
-------------------------------------------------

I haven't heard anything back yet.

Lou

 

[jimandela]

lleone,
enough.. my brother.. please.. just jump a flight to florida.. and meet him face to face.
bring a video camera and record the meeting and post it.
a flight is what $150?
I would ...

 

[VPRVENM97]

....One of the nice things that Ross does is record the job cart number on the bottom of each piston. This way the information can be retrieved from Ross in the event that a replacement piston needs to be ordered or any other information about the pistons is needed.... The job number on those pistons is 100634 (the letter after the job number indicates the cylinder). The fax you sent me has a job cart number of 102887.

Uh Oh...Busted...

Anyone know what the dollar limit for small claims court is in FL? Does FL law allow for the plaintiff to recover travel expenses, loss wages, subpoena service, etc.? Sounds like you have a strong case there Lou. Plaintiff vs Defendent, no lawyers. All you need is just the preponderance of the evidence. Seems like you're well prepared.

 

[Miles B]

Red handed!!

 

[garolittle]

lleone,
enough.. my brother.. please.. just jump a flight to florida.. and meet him face to face.
bring a video camera and record the meeting and post it.
a flight is what $150?
I would ...

I agree. Just get it over with.

 

[lleone]

Oops, because of a post I made in another forum, I'm now in trouble with the moderators. Of course since their email to me states:

"This communication and any attachments, is intended for the addressee(s) named above and may contain confidential and legally privileged information. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by replying to this communication and then deleting it from your system. Thank you."

I suppose I can't post the contents :-(

Lou

 

[Joseph Dell]

If the information contained is NOT confidential or legally priviledged, they they have no standing. Confidentiality doesn't mean private... it means legally confidentially. And just b/c you are getting the e-mail does NOT make it priviledged information.

Put another way, you can do whatever you want with it. If the disclaimer said that this IS confidential info, then they could yell at you. but they said it _may_ contain confidential info. Who decides that? You do.

Post away if you feel like it.

Don't let the boodie-man scare you.

JD

 

[lleone]

Joe, I refrained from posting the contents out of courtesy to the sender. That I'm probably one step away from being censored. I mean, it's not like I sponsor a forum or anything... ;-) Lou

 

[jimandela]

LLeone,
when does you flight leave?

 

[Janni]

That's crap.

That legal disclaimer that's on the bottom of the email I believe is intended to make the info confidential should it be delivered to an unintended 3rd party.

If it was an email sent TO YOU - then you are the intended recipient and have the right to do anything you want with it.

If someone is telling you otherwise, or if you are at risk of being censored on this site - well, then that's crap again.

 

[Torquemonster]

This site is the voice of Viper owners and enthusiasts not tuners.

If moderators ever forget that - its time for the membership to issue a reminder. No statements made by forum members are necessarily the opinion of the VCA board, moderators - or even fellow members - but we each have the right to freedom of speech and expression.

If this issue was being resolved behind the scenes there would be no need for publically airing it. The fact a tuner complains because the heat finally winds them up enough to do something is irrelevant when Lou has waited 5 dam months for some honest answers.

If not for this forum his only recourse would be expensive legal help - which seems as though will be required ANYWAY.

Terrible personal circumstances excuse a lot of things - except being offhand and failing to account properly for spending other peoples money. That crosses a line that cannot be recovered from until made right. If Scott can't fix this because he is broke or whatever - he should at least man up and say so.

Nobody will ever respect BS no matter what the personal circumstances.... and thats a lesson all of us do well to remember.

 

[BobK898]

I believe the pistons evidence pretty much exposes them for what they are. You should have let her send you the receipt, that would have been worth some laughs. Actually, it's pretty sad.

 

[VPRVENM97]

Oops, because of a post I made in another forum, I'm now in trouble with the moderators. Of course since their email to me states:

"This communication and any attachments, is intended for the addressee(s) named above and may contain confidential and legally privileged information. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by replying to this communication and then deleting it from your system. Thank you."

I suppose I can't post the contents :-(

Lou

Lou,

That disclaimer doesn't mean a thing. You are the intended recipient so you can do with it whatever you wish. Now if you wish not to post it out of courtesy to the sender then that's your decision and it's understandable.

As far as being censored, that would be totally BS. You haven't violated any of the site rules. All you have been doing is sharing factual information. Now if that's a violation of board rules then we have a serious problem.


Section 2511 of title 18, United
States Code, is amended by adding at
the end of the following:
"(3)(a) Except as provided in
paragraph (b) of this subsection, a
person or entity providing an
electronic communication service to
the public shall not intentionally
divulge the contents of any
communication (other than one to such
person or entity, or an agent thereof)
while in transmission on that service
to any person or entity other than an
addressee or intended recipient of
such communication or an agent of such
addressee or intended recipient.
"(b) A person or entity providing
electronic communication service to
the public may divulge the contents of
any such communication--
"(i) as otherwise authorized in
section 2511(2)(a) or 2517 of this
title;
"(ii)with the lawful consent of
the originator or any addressee or
intended recipient of such
communication;

 

[STUGOTS]

I think Lou should be albe to say the ENTIRE story here in this thread from messy start to messy finish because it can stop many of us from being screwed by another fly by night like hennnnnnnnnessey.

I mean imagine if Lou wasent able to post any of this maybe 15 or more people would be in the same boat he is right not had not been warned.

 

[lleone]

OK, OK, everybody simmer down. There seems to be some confusion at the powers-that-be level as to the nature of a thread I started elsewhere. They seem to be of the belief that my intention was to start the same sort of thread that I have in this forum over in the other forum. Here's the wording from my post (which has since been deleted), you can interpret for yourselves my intentions:
--------------------------------------------------
"Since Elite Motorsports is sponsoring this forum, I thought it important
to make mention of the following thread:
<http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/sh...lapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1>Warning
about Elite
<http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB14&Number=438107&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1>Motorsports"
--------------------------------------------------
That resulted in an email which stated:
--------------------------------------------------
This post is over the edge and does fall under the harassment rule. Please
refrain from filling up all the forums with references to your thread,
OK? We did not even allow this sort of thing when done to a Texas
tuner that still owes hundreds of thousands to VCA members.
--------------------------------------------------

For those of you who have noticed the extent to which I document things, do you think I would have posted the link to this thread if I wanted to start another thread in another forum?

I am soooo misunderstood!
;-) (joking for those of you who can't figure it out)

I have responded and heard back from the sender and while they appear to be interested in helping out, they don't quite have a full grasp of the entire course of events. I am willing to be patient with them while they "get their arms around things".

One of the interesting things that can be inferred from their emails is that my claims are somewhat "dubious" because I was not the person who paid the tuner for the modifications. What's the issue of whether I directly paid anything or not? I thought I did pay when I bought the car, but regardless of that Scott made a committment to me that he has not upheld. This was communicated numerous times verbally and via emails. That constitutes a contract in all 50 states in the Union.

Anyhow, I am pleased that they have taken an interest in the issues even if they don't fully grasp all of them at this point in time.

Lou

 

[NOTTDADZ]

Scott, why don't you tell your side of the story?

 

[Torquemonster]

Well - in that case I can understand the moderators being cautious. For the most part this site is run pretty well and this thread by its own existence is proof members can speak up if they are having first hand experience of a problem.

Carry on the good work mods

As you were Lou...

 

[lleone]

Thanks Torque!

Lou

 

[Cop Magnet]

Section 2511 of title 18, United
States Code, is amended by adding at
the end of the following:
"(3)(a) Except as provided in
paragraph (b) of this subsection, a
person or entity providing an
electronic communication service to
the public shall not intentionally
divulge the contents of any
communication (other than one to such
person or entity, or an agent thereof)
while in transmission on that service
to any person or entity other than an
addressee or intended recipient of
such communication or an agent of such
addressee or intended recipient.
"(b) A person or entity providing
electronic communication service to
the public may divulge the contents of
any such communication--
"(i) as otherwise authorized in
section 2511(2)(a) or 2517 of this
title;
"(ii)with the lawful consent of
the originator or any addressee or
intended recipient of such
communication;

Oh, yeah. That kind of language always clears things up.