What type of coolant
- Thread starter 95Viper
- Start date
Funny I asked this same question regarding my 2000 GTS (same green mopar coolant as yours) during an srt engineering Q/A. They gave me this generic answer which was to use the coolant specified in the service manual. I don't understand this, but that's what's in there now. Makes me wonder why?
luc
Enthusiast
If I had to do that, due to all my vehicles, I will need like 5 or 6 different coolant so years ago I started using Prestone All.
LifeIsGood
Enthusiast
I use Peak Global LifeTime ($12.49 per gallon from NAPA). It was recommended to me by Tom, F&L GoR for my application...GEN II after a coolant flush of what appeared to be the OE coolant.
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Tom F&L GoR
Enthusiast
Maybe some of you had a 2005 or 2006 Suzuki LT-Z400 that was recalled and they replaced the magnesium clutch cover with an aluminum one. There was a coolant passageway that would plug up because no coolant at the time was able to protect magnesium; the Suzuki folks probably thought that the hole was so short it wouldn't matter. Well, it did and blocked the coolant flow so the engine would overheat.
Normal engine parts aren't made with magnesium, so there is no industry standard evaluation for coolant protection of magnesium. The normal test puts thick washers of several types of material (aluminum, steel, copper) in the heated coolant and the weight before and after is measured.
I simply cut discs of aluminum from the garage, used a brass screw, a steel sleeve, and a hole saw to cut round discs out of the magnesium clutch cover. Then bought a few cheap Walmart coffee pots, filled with coolant and water, and plugged them in for a week or so. You would be surprised at how different the results were.
Here are a few examples. All sample metals were cut at the same time and treated equally. The top disc is aluminum, the center spacer is steel, the bottom disc is magnesium, the screw is brass. All coolants are major brands, just different technology additives.
Normal engine parts aren't made with magnesium, so there is no industry standard evaluation for coolant protection of magnesium. The normal test puts thick washers of several types of material (aluminum, steel, copper) in the heated coolant and the weight before and after is measured.
I simply cut discs of aluminum from the garage, used a brass screw, a steel sleeve, and a hole saw to cut round discs out of the magnesium clutch cover. Then bought a few cheap Walmart coffee pots, filled with coolant and water, and plugged them in for a week or so. You would be surprised at how different the results were.
Here are a few examples. All sample metals were cut at the same time and treated equally. The top disc is aluminum, the center spacer is steel, the bottom disc is magnesium, the screw is brass. All coolants are major brands, just different technology additives.
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Tom F&L GoR
Enthusiast
Can only upload 5 pix at a time, so here are the rest. Run 7 is the Global Lifetime coolant. The clutch cover hole in this example was completely plugged with corrosion of the magnesium. The last image is the silicate additive in green coolant - it precipitates after a few hours of heating. That material is what eventually floats around in your coolant passages and abrades the water pump seals, causing leaks. Oh, and since it's not on the walls, it isn't protecting the engine, which is why you have to change it frequently.
Long Life coolants are huge technology improvements. I don't really care which you choose, but stay away from the green coolants.
Long Life coolants are huge technology improvements. I don't really care which you choose, but stay away from the green coolants.
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snakebitdave
Enthusiast
I bet they are learning from Tom..
+1
And, interested in knowing if this coolant would be the best choice for any car? Like someone alluded to, would be nice to have one brand/type for all cars...
And, interested in knowing if this coolant would be the best choice for any car? Like someone alluded to, would be nice to have one brand/type for all cars...
Bexar80
Viper Owner
Tom I would be extremely interested to know what type of coolant each run was in your tests.
I recently flushed my Viper and filled it with Zerex G-05 since it is what my Mercedes uses (in fact it is the same color) and supposedly what my BMW uses just dyed blue. I feel those manufactures along with Toyota have the highest regard to engineering. However, I noticed the Toyota coolant formula is different than the Benz/BMW, mainly being the levels of silicates.
So how does pH levels effect performance, OAT versus HOAT formulas and low silicate HOAT versus silicate free HOAT? Would a OAT be better than the HOAT because it is phosphate and silicate free?
I recently flushed my Viper and filled it with Zerex G-05 since it is what my Mercedes uses (in fact it is the same color) and supposedly what my BMW uses just dyed blue. I feel those manufactures along with Toyota have the highest regard to engineering. However, I noticed the Toyota coolant formula is different than the Benz/BMW, mainly being the levels of silicates.
So how does pH levels effect performance, OAT versus HOAT formulas and low silicate HOAT versus silicate free HOAT? Would a OAT be better than the HOAT because it is phosphate and silicate free?
Tom F&L GoR
Enthusiast
Folks, let me start by saying the green coolant is like the engine oil made from Pennsylvania crude and all they did was filter it. Any long life coolant (one that advertises 5 years or 150,000 miles) is a tremendous technology leap upwards. Seriously, if you choose any color long life coolant you will be much, much better off.
We are now picking one brand or formulation tweak among many champions. Because of my testing with magnesium, I found the Peak Global Lifetime product better than others, but none of our Viper engines have magnesium parts. Plus, I have had other Long Life style coolants in my other cars already and I'm not about to change until 5 years or 150,000 miles. Unless I learn something different, I would put the Global Lifetime product in any of my cars ('94 Viper, '96 Dakota, 05 Jeep, 06 Charger, 04 Neon, and yes, 05 Focus) without hesitation.
I aim to be technology-centric and not name brands. For example, while I advocate diesel engine oils, hopefully you've noticed I have not picked a particular favorite. Same here - go with a Long Life coolant (Mopar, whatever Prestone fits your make and model, or Peak) and you'll be fine.
We are now picking one brand or formulation tweak among many champions. Because of my testing with magnesium, I found the Peak Global Lifetime product better than others, but none of our Viper engines have magnesium parts. Plus, I have had other Long Life style coolants in my other cars already and I'm not about to change until 5 years or 150,000 miles. Unless I learn something different, I would put the Global Lifetime product in any of my cars ('94 Viper, '96 Dakota, 05 Jeep, 06 Charger, 04 Neon, and yes, 05 Focus) without hesitation.
I aim to be technology-centric and not name brands. For example, while I advocate diesel engine oils, hopefully you've noticed I have not picked a particular favorite. Same here - go with a Long Life coolant (Mopar, whatever Prestone fits your make and model, or Peak) and you'll be fine.
Peak Global is the only "over the counter" product that I have personally confirmed is a HOAT coolant similar to the current Mopar Fluid(HOAT). However, I stick with the mopar stuff since i assume the formula is slightly diff and I dont mind showing my face& the viper at the local dealership every so often.
most other non-green brands are OAT based fluids aka dexcool.
If ur curious of the diff between HOAT and OAT type it in google. There is many articles explaining the diff between between the 3 diff types of coolant: green, oat and hoat.
heres a good one: Universal Coolant: The Ultimate Antifreeze?
most other non-green brands are OAT based fluids aka dexcool.
If ur curious of the diff between HOAT and OAT type it in google. There is many articles explaining the diff between between the 3 diff types of coolant: green, oat and hoat.
heres a good one: Universal Coolant: The Ultimate Antifreeze?
Tom F&L GoR
Enthusiast
Some were green, some were pink, some were red...
You were typing same time I was, but bottom line is that I don't want to get into ******* contests about brands. Everyone should know that ethylene glycol is a clear fluid. The many different colors are merely dyes. To this dyed ethylene glycol, additives are mixed in at around 6%-8%. After you make your purchase, you add 50% water and this combination is the "coolant."
The green coolants uses only silicates for metal protection. They are designed to coat the metal surface rapidly and protect against corrosion. Consequently the additive chemistry is depleted - it is all on the metal - and when it comes off again it leaves the metal unprotected. To make matters worse, the silicate "blobs" as shown in my picture above are abrasive to water pump seals.
Organic Acid Technology (OAT) is silicate free. The original DEX-COOL product is OAT. This chemistry stays in the coolant solution until corrosion is detected, then only attacks that site. Consequently, the little additive soldiers are not all used up right away and are waiting (up to 5 years/150K miles) to fight the next battle. In the mean time, the metal surface does not have a layer of "stuff" and so heat transfer is slightly better.
Some OEMs wanted a faster acting, but long-life coolant, so they developed Hybrid Organic Acid Technology (HOAT). It contains mostly OAT additives, but with a little bit of silicates. Very low levels, and from what I read, not a problem with water pump seals. When OAT was new, OEMs were undecided about what was best for their engines, so the HOAT versions (pink, orange, red, etc) came out. My personal opinion is that they are essentially all the same. In addition, the coolant manufacturers are finding that there isn't a difference in the engine appetite, so you are seeing more and more come out with a long life coolant for any engine, or that replaces any color of coolant.
(Ironically, there is consumer literature saying not to mix coolants, but think about HOAT - it is a mix of long life OAT chemistry with a pinch of silicates!)
In the end, I will say that any reputable brand long life coolant will be much more than you need. I say that because the same chemistry is used in heavy duty tractor trailers engines and those coolants go 2 or 3 times 100,000 miles with a small bottle top-up to go the next several hundred thousand miles.
