big-n-italian
Enthusiast
BOTTLEFED
Enthusiast
here is one from the classifieds
ViperClub Classifieds - 97 GTS engine, Roe S/C - Powered by PhotoPost Classifieds
anyone know about this motor or if it is still forsale?
ViperClub Classifieds - 97 GTS engine, Roe S/C - Powered by PhotoPost Classifieds
anyone know about this motor or if it is still forsale?
viper spray
Enthusiast
ouch!!
I hate to see that...........good luck.
I hate to see that...........good luck.
Give Chuck Tator a call. I'm sure he can help you locate a new motor.
JUCD VPR
Enthusiast
There are some motors on e-bay, one starting bid 3500 with a 1 yr warranty, says it's checked and ready to ship? Could be worth looking into as the engine/tranny package deals run around 7500.
I feel bad for you man, i just blew up the motor in my Mustang a few months back, it broke a connecting rod and it destroyed EVERYTHING in my bottom end including the block, nothing was salvagable, thank god I have my Viper so it''s not to bad, but it sure does **** when stuff like this happens.
Good luck man!
I feel bad for you man, i just blew up the motor in my Mustang a few months back, it broke a connecting rod and it destroyed EVERYTHING in my bottom end including the block, nothing was salvagable, thank god I have my Viper so it''s not to bad, but it sure does **** when stuff like this happens.
Good luck man!
JUCD VPR
Enthusiast
EllowViper;2546436 If you have a PAYPAL account said:I was about to say this also, great idea. I'd be down for sending a little bit. Lets do this guys and help a fellow member out. Wadda ya say?
Viper Fever
Viper Owner
Tim I read about this yesterday holy crap. I stopped over last night but you were'nt home. If I can help let me know. Carl
BOTTLEFED
Enthusiast
Carl, stop by tonight and you can check it out
BOTTLEFED
Enthusiast
OK, I think what I want to do is keep this thread for discussion of the damage and possible causes
I'll open a new thread for discussing the possible solutions and opinions on how to fix or replace the engine
That way this thread isn't cluttered with both
thanks for all your help and support so far
I'm not really one for charity so I don't think I'll go that way
(yet
)
-Tim
I'll open a new thread for discussing the possible solutions and opinions on how to fix or replace the engine
That way this thread isn't cluttered with both
thanks for all your help and support so far
I'm not really one for charity so I don't think I'll go that way
(yet
)-Tim
BOTTLEFED
Enthusiast
I thought the stock champions were longer.
I remember taking the stock ones out to replace with the Bosch plugs from Roe and noticing how much longer the stock ones were.
Then, when I bought the new sets, the BKR7Es were the same length as the Bosch and the FR5-1s looked about the same as the stock champions.
I'm almost certain this was not caused by the plugs hitting the pistons.
However, the hotter plugs may have led to more detonation.
On the other hand, I was getting quite a bit of knock and misfires before I changed the plugs. So the motor may have been on its way out and the hotter plugs just sealed the fate.
what do you guys think
Look at the psitons for sparkplug dents, but it really sounds like you leaned it out way too much. I thought your logs were good? If you had good logs with bad detonation it sounds like your wideband oxygen sensor was giving the wrong readings?
I'm planning to do some self tuning and almost have the wideband guage finished. I plugged the wideband into the Vec 2 so that I can read the logs if I don't get a chance to look at the guage, I can just read the AF mixture from the Vec logs.
Ted
I'm planning to do some self tuning and almost have the wideband guage finished. I plugged the wideband into the Vec 2 so that I can read the logs if I don't get a chance to look at the guage, I can just read the AF mixture from the Vec logs.
Ted
BOTTLEFED
Enthusiast
Yes my logs were good - I wish I could post them but it doesn't work
I was tuning at 60-70deg. for 12.1 a/f; after some tuning I was never more than 1 a/f point away from that.
I would only get knock when the temp would change - up or down, didn't matter. Or when I went to a different elevation. When I would hear knock, I would let off. However, I do have a very loud exhaust and it was very hard to tell when it was knocking at higher RPMs.
As far as a bad tank of gas, I'm ruling it out for now since I was getting knock before from multiple tanks of gas and many different gas stations.
Another possibility is timing. I'm not sure what the timing should be on these cars at boost. I'm trusting the tune that Sean wrote for my car. Unfortunately, there was already a mistake in the tune he first gave me. It was extremely rich (7-8 a/f) and he had to send me another one.
Going back to running too lean, I was uncomfortable with how lean it ran at lower loads. At cruise it would range between upper 14s to lower 17s. And at idle it was in the 17-18 range. And most concerning was that at startup, the car would run so lean that is had trouble running and the WB gauge could not even read high enough to register how lean it was.
I could never figure out why it ran so lean off load (closed loop, <WOT). The first thing I did before starting to tune was to set the LTFTs to 0 on both banks. And I assumed that since the VEC is a piggyback syst., that it did not affect idle or other non-WOT operation once the injector correction was set.
I think I'll go back to dyno-tuning when I get it back together
Also, I'll be sending my VEC2 in to get the AIT mod added so I don't have to tune for every air temp or elevation.
I was tuning at 60-70deg. for 12.1 a/f; after some tuning I was never more than 1 a/f point away from that.
I would only get knock when the temp would change - up or down, didn't matter. Or when I went to a different elevation. When I would hear knock, I would let off. However, I do have a very loud exhaust and it was very hard to tell when it was knocking at higher RPMs.
As far as a bad tank of gas, I'm ruling it out for now since I was getting knock before from multiple tanks of gas and many different gas stations.
Another possibility is timing. I'm not sure what the timing should be on these cars at boost. I'm trusting the tune that Sean wrote for my car. Unfortunately, there was already a mistake in the tune he first gave me. It was extremely rich (7-8 a/f) and he had to send me another one.
Going back to running too lean, I was uncomfortable with how lean it ran at lower loads. At cruise it would range between upper 14s to lower 17s. And at idle it was in the 17-18 range. And most concerning was that at startup, the car would run so lean that is had trouble running and the WB gauge could not even read high enough to register how lean it was.
I could never figure out why it ran so lean off load (closed loop, <WOT). The first thing I did before starting to tune was to set the LTFTs to 0 on both banks. And I assumed that since the VEC is a piggyback syst., that it did not affect idle or other non-WOT operation once the injector correction was set.
I think I'll go back to dyno-tuning when I get it back together
Also, I'll be sending my VEC2 in to get the AIT mod added so I don't have to tune for every air temp or elevation.
BOTTLEFED
Enthusiast
nope, no w/m yet
good luck with the tuning
contact damn yankee for some advice and a really cool spreadsheet that is worth its weight in gold to record all your logs with
good luck with the tuning
contact damn yankee for some advice and a really cool spreadsheet that is worth its weight in gold to record all your logs with
Russ M
Enthusiast
Looks like massive detonation to me, what are you using to tune this car?
The heads look like they can be saved as long as they are not actually cracked anywhere.
The heads look like they can be saved as long as they are not actually cracked anywhere.
big-n-italian
Enthusiast
i dont know about that. those heads are pretty chewed up. it looks like would take quite a bit of work to recondition those back into shape.
Madduc
Enthusiast
No water/**** with 10psi of boost? I'm running 8psi with w/m and unless I mix a few gallons of 100 octane per tank I get knock on mild tip in. I can't imagine how bad it would knock with that boost level and no benefit of the w/m.
BOTTLEFED
Enthusiast
Well, I hate to add this to the problems because I don't think it actually added to the demise of the motor, but here goes...
As stated, I bought this S/C setup used. The previous owner states that it only has about 5k miles on it. It came with a 5#, 8#, and a 10# pulley, which the 10# was installed when I got it. It also came with the MSD BAP.
My plan was to run the 8# on my initial install and wait to install the BAP and a W/M syst. before installing the 10# pulley. However, after a lot of trying and consulting Sean, I was unsuccessful at removing the 10# pulley.
I don't have a W/M setup, but I went ahead and installed the BAP.
Sean said I would be fine.
Upon getting it running and starting to get some logs, I noticed that I was extremely rich and that I was only topping out at 8.5 - 9psi by redline.
I got a new, leaner program from Sean and he said I would start getting higher boost with a leaner tune.
Well, my A/Fs were better, but my boost never got any better. In fact, it very slowly got worse. By the time I logged my last tune, I was only getting low 8psi at redline.
I was also confused by the boost curve. I thought a twin-screw type S/C had a pretty flat curve, but mine looked more like a turbo. At initial tip-in I would immediately build 3-4psi, then it would just steadily build to 8+.
I sent Sean a few logs and he did not seem too worried. He told me it was just tuning and that it was unusual. I emailed him again recently and he advised me to check for vac. leaks between the stock MAP and VEC MAP, but I can't really check that now.
So there it is. I'm not really sure if that was part of the problem, but maybe it'll give you guys something else to think about
As stated, I bought this S/C setup used. The previous owner states that it only has about 5k miles on it. It came with a 5#, 8#, and a 10# pulley, which the 10# was installed when I got it. It also came with the MSD BAP.
My plan was to run the 8# on my initial install and wait to install the BAP and a W/M syst. before installing the 10# pulley. However, after a lot of trying and consulting Sean, I was unsuccessful at removing the 10# pulley.
I don't have a W/M setup, but I went ahead and installed the BAP.
Sean said I would be fine.
Upon getting it running and starting to get some logs, I noticed that I was extremely rich and that I was only topping out at 8.5 - 9psi by redline.
I got a new, leaner program from Sean and he said I would start getting higher boost with a leaner tune.
Well, my A/Fs were better, but my boost never got any better. In fact, it very slowly got worse. By the time I logged my last tune, I was only getting low 8psi at redline.
I was also confused by the boost curve. I thought a twin-screw type S/C had a pretty flat curve, but mine looked more like a turbo. At initial tip-in I would immediately build 3-4psi, then it would just steadily build to 8+.
I sent Sean a few logs and he did not seem too worried. He told me it was just tuning and that it was unusual. I emailed him again recently and he advised me to check for vac. leaks between the stock MAP and VEC MAP, but I can't really check that now.
So there it is. I'm not really sure if that was part of the problem, but maybe it'll give you guys something else to think about
Both my Roe's had instaant boost/hp. Full boost/power at 2,000rpm. My boost guage is junk however, but now it sounds like you'd better check out the sc. Something coming from the sc would be the simplest explanation.
My 01 has 10# pulley and was used without w/m. It does have Ross 9-1 pistons in it and the water/**** was a more recent addittion, added for power. Sean told me to tune the sc without the wm first, then add the w/m to the tune. Right now my car shoots a huge cloud of Black smoke behind the car when the w/m comes on. Can't notice any lack of power, just a shot of smoke at lower rpms when the w/m hits.
Ted
My 01 has 10# pulley and was used without w/m. It does have Ross 9-1 pistons in it and the water/**** was a more recent addittion, added for power. Sean told me to tune the sc without the wm first, then add the w/m to the tune. Right now my car shoots a huge cloud of Black smoke behind the car when the w/m comes on. Can't notice any lack of power, just a shot of smoke at lower rpms when the w/m hits.
Ted
Alternative
Enthusiast
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I didn't read the whole thread, so someone may have mentioned this already... You can rule out the plugs hitting the pistons, because the NGK FR5-1 are shorter than stock Champions. However, the FR5-1's are not colder than stock, they are equivalent to stock plugs and have the same heat range. The BKR7E are 2 steps colder, BKR6E is 1 step colder.
When you get your motor squared away, you may want to take it to someone who can really tune the VEC. I highly recommend Joe Donovan / PBJ.
When you get your motor squared away, you may want to take it to someone who can really tune the VEC. I highly recommend Joe Donovan / PBJ.
BOTTLEFED
Enthusiast
I was concerned about the S/C from the start but Sean reassured me it was not a big deal and to not worry about it. Yet it still frustrated me not to get full boost from it.
I recently asked about rebuilding the S/C and he said it doesn't need it and that it could only be done in Sweden.
There is not a whole lot that can go wrong with the unit but I can't figure out why it doesn't work right.
It seems like Sean just doesn't want to deal with it.
I recently asked about rebuilding the S/C and he said it doesn't need it and that it could only be done in Sweden.
There is not a whole lot that can go wrong with the unit but I can't figure out why it doesn't work right.
It seems like Sean just doesn't want to deal with it.
GTSnake
Enthusiast
Is it possible that there was some oil leaking from the SC that caused detonation? I agree that it can't be the length of the spark plugs and that detonation caused the broken plugs. I know that the Roe's should not be spun on 10lb pulley's very long before it needs a rebuild.
How are your PCV lines run? Do you have a catch can and not rerouted back into the intake?
How are your PCV lines run? Do you have a catch can and not rerouted back into the intake?
1TONY1
Enthusiast
Really ... How do you know this ? There are 100's running around with 10 lb pulleys.
10 psi without race fuel, I think you would have to pull so much timing that you are ending up close to the same power levels
Agreed, been there done that on an LT1
Lower loads, idle and cruise you could lean it till it dies and not hurt anything.
BOTTLEFED,
What wideband do you have and how are you monitoring it ? Do we know that it is correct or that if your reading it from the Vec logs it is correct ?
I'm also curious about that pulley not coming off. After the bolt is removed mine always falls off in my hand.
The boost rising slowly....I'll have to think on that one. Is that per the gauge or the logs ? I see no way this s/c could let boost slowly rise. Possible bypass issues ? One thing for sure, if it is rising slowly it would be less prone to detonate initially where the Roe IS prone to detonate.
On the engine deal, if you could find a reasonably priced long block then you could be back on the road fairly quick and possibly for the same money if there is damage to the cylinder walls. If no damage to the cylinder walls then it's no big deal to throw the engine back together with used parts. A replacement engine would leave the current parts for a nice motor build and ported heads in the future.
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