Fatboy 18
Enthusiast
Come on Pete, you know you want toGTSs going that cheap now???!!! TIME TO RE-MORTGAGE!!
When will Gen II values REBOUND
- Thread starter GTS1997
- Start date
I paid 62 for my 96 GTS NEW IN 1996.Figure nice low mileage Gts can now be had mid -high 30s so 14 years later the car really didnt lose that much.In this economy ALL LUXURY ITEMS are getting hit hard .Car wise even the Ford Gt (with only a few thousand in existance )have gone down.I dont think Vipers will be going up anytime soon -too many for sale ot there.
Seriously? Okay.
And remember, don't drink and drive LOL!
And remember, don't drink and drive LOL!
NEVER. But, please, go for a LAMBO.
One more Viper for US.
At least there's one guy with an honest response besides "Lambos ****."
Bunch of haters on here, sounding like Corvette guys when they talk about Vipers LOL!
terminator02
Viper Owner
back to topic, I actually see prices already starting to climb. Every month more vipers get wrecked or get purchased out of the country. There WILL be people that want a Gen 1/2 Viper and will get them and pay for them. Right now there are a lot of people dumping them...but some are wrecking them. How many Viper GTS's are there still in existence without salvage in the USA? In a few years how many will be left?
dave6666
Enthusiast
white out
Enthusiast
Over the past 8 months, from my observations on GTSs, the prices have gone down. There are always a few in the upper $20s, majority in the 34-43 range, and a few in the 50+ range. But I would say that most cars can be had under 41, and I would have a hard time paying more than 40k for a GTS with over 17k miles.
There are a few ACRs out there that I am not willing to share in desperate hopes that my car sells very quickly.
I think that the gen II's for the most part are at rock bottom. Wait until the cars are 20 years old for the prices to start going back up, or if Viper is killed.
I own a '98 Hummer, the price steadily declined through '06. Then it leveled off in the low 30's, now it is going back up.
I also own a '87 Grand National (since '00). When I bought it, it was at the bottom of its lifespan. The kbb value on the car has doubled since I bought it.
These are just two examples of cars that the viper can possibly be classified under.
In general, I think that genII GTSs will always be able to pull $35-50k depending on the condition/value/buyer. Kind of like how Countachs hover around $100k.
Nick
OK - Diablo's are beautifully handcrafted, remarkably engineered LEMONS! Is that better?
Jim
dave6666
Enthusiast
OK - Diablo's are beautifully handcrafted, remarkably engineered LEMONS! Is that better?
Jim
BlackSnake99
Enthusiast
I would agree with you. I think that they may decline a bit more but over the next few years we will see them rise. I have already made my kids swear not to sell mine at Barrett-Jackson when I am gone!
Don't hate, appreciate! No need to bash Lambos because they get it right, just respectfully bow and move along. Don't lie either, you'd own one, you know you would!
Ok, that's my last dig on you Viper purists with blinders on, no more
Ok, that's my last dig on you Viper purists with blinders on, no more
OK - Diablo's are beautifully handcrafted, remarkably engineered LEMONS! Is that better?
Jim
What are you laughing at Dave, don't you have anything to do besides surf this forum? Maybe sleep or something?
dave6666
Enthusiast
Ok, that's my last dig on you Viper purists with blinders on, no more
My God man, it's really tough to hijack a thread that picks right up exactly where the last thread was on car values.
I think this thread hit maturity at reply #3, hence the clown committee shows up to take over 
What are you laughing at Dave, don't you have anything to do besides surf this forum? Maybe sleep or something?
I heard the Russians might be invading soon; sleep with one eye open and might as well post at the same time.
Damn Commies.
slaughterj
Enthusiast
- Joined
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Your ignorance about the Viper in this post make the rest of your comments in this thread suspect. Let me break it down for you.
Wrong on multiple points, you must have voted for Obama given your use of the term "change". There is good change, there is bad change, and there is change which is neither. If Dodge drastically changes the Viper for the better (1000 HP stock! 10 year, 100k, $0 deductible factory warranty! 100-0 braking in 1 sec! All for only $50k!), the older Vipers will not be helped in value. If Dodge does away with the Viper, prices will likely level off but not particularly jump at the moment given the economy as a whole.
That will never happen. Viper is defined by the V10 and that will not change.
Whether the Viper gets axed in a year (or ever) has nothing to do with the cost of building them or with new CAFE standards. Viper makes Chrysler a profit regardless of the cost to build, so that is not a factor. Also, CAFE standards have no relevance to Viper because CAFE means Corporate Average Fuel Economy, i.e., CAFE is a calculation across the entire corporate entity, and the Viper production is a drop in the bucket compared to the volume of cars across the corporate entity. The Viper could make 1 MPG and it wouldn't much matter for CAFE standards.
So until you show some amount of knowledge rather than ignorance, anything else you say is going to be considered worthless.
Wrong on multiple points, you must have voted for Obama given your use of the term "change". There is good change, there is bad change, and there is change which is neither. If Dodge drastically changes the Viper for the better (1000 HP stock! 10 year, 100k, $0 deductible factory warranty! 100-0 braking in 1 sec! All for only $50k!), the older Vipers will not be helped in value. If Dodge does away with the Viper, prices will likely level off but not particularly jump at the moment given the economy as a whole.
That will never happen. Viper is defined by the V10 and that will not change.
Whether the Viper gets axed in a year (or ever) has nothing to do with the cost of building them or with new CAFE standards. Viper makes Chrysler a profit regardless of the cost to build, so that is not a factor. Also, CAFE standards have no relevance to Viper because CAFE means Corporate Average Fuel Economy, i.e., CAFE is a calculation across the entire corporate entity, and the Viper production is a drop in the bucket compared to the volume of cars across the corporate entity. The Viper could make 1 MPG and it wouldn't much matter for CAFE standards.
So until you show some amount of knowledge rather than ignorance, anything else you say is going to be considered worthless.
mike007
Viper Owner
I would own one if I had the big bucks to mantain it.Don't hate, appreciate! No need to bash Lambos because they get it right, just respectfully bow and move along. Don't lie either, you'd own one, you know you would!
Ok, that's my last dig on you Viper purists with blinders on, no more
99VPRGTS
Enthusiast
Took the words right out of my mouth! Gen II Vipers, as sad as it is, are CONSTANTLY getting wrecked.
The more time that passes by, the less there will be of them. I think that when the economy rebounds (hopefully it will LOL) the values of them will rise. However, this could take at least a few years given the current trends.
If you look at my post, I said IF Dodge drastically changes the Viper or does away with it. I never said it was going to happen, but I did say I wouldn't be surprised. My point was that it's possible given Chrysler's situation these days, and you sound like that's impossible. That, my friend, would be ignorant.
First of all, a stock Viper already costs $85-$90k new. Regardless of the economy, do you really think Dodge is going to invest big bucks into upping the Viper's performance and lower the price at the same time? That is a rhetorical question and a rediculous theory. Case in point: the ACR, costs $106k. I also said IF the Viper goes away the Viper's value would increase, but wouldn't happen for a few years due to the economy. You said almost the exact same thing, so?
This comment is hilarious, and ignorant...
Seriously? Think about what you said for a minute... Whether or not ANY car stays in existence has EVERYTHING to do with the cost of building them. If a car costs more to build than to sell would you keep building and selling that car? That's another rhetorical question. The Viper is hand built at its own plant, and its built by the auto workers union in small numbers, so you know the Viper profits compared to Chrysler's overall gains is marginal. The Viper is Chrysler's halo car, not a cash cow, and that's the primary reason why it's been around this long, not because it makes big profits.
As for CAFE, your point is valid, perhaps CAFE isn't as big of an impact due to the Viper's low production numbers, but to say it has no relevance is ignorant. It's still a negative impact and I'd bet Chrysler/Fiat is factoring every expense into their assessment of ways to save money, especially with new management of Chrysler being much more mindful about their spending post Chapter 11.
Did you know Chrysler tried to sell the Viper nameplate just recently? Highest offer was 5.5 million (no sale obviously). If a sale had been made, who knows what the Viper would have become or if the new company would have a V10 engine to put in the car. Also, in the wake of the Chrysler/Fiat merger, they've only announced the Viper's existence through 2010. That should tell you the Viper is not rooted into Chrysler these days, and it's future is unknown long term.
That said Sgt Slaughter, what makes you so sure the Viper will keep a V10 engine in the future, let alone continue to exist under Dodge or any other car company the way it has over the past 17 years? Crystal ball?
OUCH! That ain't cool! I actually did not vote for the man, so no need to hate me any more than you do now LOL!
slaughterj
Enthusiast
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Sure, you said "if" and I said "if" in response. You get an epic fail in reading comprehension.
No. You said "IF" and there'd be an increase. I said "IF" and there'd maybe be a leveling off.
No, you think about what you said: "Hand building these cars aren't cheap" as if that had some bearing on whether the car would get axed. It has nothing to do with whether the car would get axed. Whether the car can SELL AT A PROFIT is what determines if it will get axed. Hand building has been the way it has been build in the past and what has sold in the past, so whether it is hand built and costs more as a result has no impact on whether it gets axed. That is why what you said was wrong.
So you halfway figured this out. It is irrelevant though to Chrysler's determination as to whether to keep or ax the Viper. Let me show you some numbers to show why. Chrysler sold 1,453,122 vehicles in 2008. If 1,000 of those were Vipers, Vipers made 1 MPG, and the rest of the cars made 20 MPG, the Chrysler CAFE # would be 19.9869 MPG, i.e., the Viper mileage would be irrelevant as a rounding error. So that is why you are ignorant.
Did you know any other details of offer and/or the bid? I doubt it. There is a lot of information that is not public and/or clear about that process. Some of it was just the Viper brand, some of it was about the Viper line, some of it was the Viper line plus CAAP, etc. etc., so I think it is far from clear what that offer covered. Plus, this isn't exactly the best market for trying to sell auto businesses. Finally, the offer wasn't taken, so the offer is faily meaningless. I could offer you a dollar for your Viper, does that mean it's worth a dollar? Does it have any meaning as to its value. No.
So what's your point? I didn't say the Viper wasn't going to get axed.
Again, I didn't say the Viper was going to exist, I merely said it wouldn't get an engine change. The reason I'm so sure of this is because it would basically kill the customer base. Let me break it down for you in simple logic:
1. Viper buyers have a strong connection with the V10 engine.
2. Changing the engine to a V8 would alienate these buyers.
3. There are not many sales of the Viper currently.
4. Changing the engine would mean less sales as the current buyers would be alienated.
5. Less sales means no viable business plan for the manufacture of the car.
6. Therefore, the engine will not be changed to a V8. (To do so would just mean the car would not sell, and therefore be terminated, so no one is going to do that.)
Seems pretty clear.
Dude, I think you took my original post WAY out of context and made some wild assumptions because I have no idea how we got to where we're at now. Sorry if I pissed in your Corn Flakes and compelled you to start blasting me for it.
If anyone else interpreted my original post the same way Slaughterj did, please say so, because if thats the case I'll gladly delete it.
If anyone else interpreted my original post the same way Slaughterj did, please say so, because if thats the case I'll gladly delete it.
georgethedog
Enthusiast
Simple supply and demand economics. When there are more people that want a GTS than there are cars, the price will find a new equilibrium price which will be higher. If even more people want (and can afford) a GTS, then the price will continue to climb. If these simple things do not happen the prices will not go up. It's as simple as: 1)people need more wealth and 2) those people with wealth have the desire to buy one. This combination will create a new group of buyers.
Here is a thought that goes back to a thread a while back where someone pointed out that teenagers are the ones that really love the Viper. When that group of people grows up and gets an education and good jobs (or develop successful businesses) and if they become nostalgic like guys did about 60's Mopars, those will be the people that will create the new demand that may drive up the prices. They will be in their late 40's and I will be in my 70's and won't care!!!
dave6666
Enthusiast
RobZilla
Enthusiast
Now: Supply.....Demand
When value will go up: Supply....Demand
Simple economics 101.
When value will go up: Supply....Demand
Simple economics 101.
terminator02
Viper Owner
ok this isn't econ 101. If we are going to take it to the basic level; riddle me this. Why on earth would someone not demand the best looking american muscle car ever created for less than the price of a new challenger? Everyday, people think my GTS ACR 2000 is a 100k car. They think they are the new ones. Most people think the viper is out of reach. Trust me.....the demand will be there...especially at the rate that the noobs are crashing them.. nuff said.
01sapphirebob
Enthusiast
I say just drive the car. Don't worry about the value. If you bought it as an investment the you invested in the wrong thing. The only thing I hope for is that when i'm dead and gone the cars I have will still be in running condition so that my kids will a have a piece of automotive history for themselfs. To me that will be the coolest thing.
RobZilla
Enthusiast
Red = Opinion
Blue = No knowledge of cars
Green = No access to the internet
I think my point still stands. Supply is way greater than demand right now. The economy is in the tank and headed further down. High performance cars are not on the top of the list for 99% of the American public.
My prediction: Value of vipers will never go back up.
97GTS
Enthusiast
I love the old Lambos too but you gotta remember this IS a Viper site where the opinions are a little bit biased.
Ron
terminator02
Viper Owner
Red = Opinion
Blue = No knowledge of cars
Green = No access to the internet
I think my point still stands. Supply is way greater than demand right now. The economy is in the tank and headed further down. High performance cars are not on the top of the list for 99% of the American public.
My prediction: Value of vipers will never go back up.
BOLD: why? cuz for the time being its cool to be green? please...this obama crap is really starting to wear thin. Actually prices have already gone up a bit. As evident on the forums and auto trader listings. Not by much..but they have. Sorry, but it being the best looking car is a pretty damn well grounded "opinion" regarding muscle cars..if you disagree why you even on this site?
dun4791
Viper Owner
I personally think Gen II prices will continue to fall, and never rebound. But noone should buy a Viper for an investment anyway........
georgethedog
Enthusiast
Partially because the new Challenger has all the creature featuers people have come to expect and the Gen 2 Viper does not. It also has a back seat that is useful for the family man. There are a lot of reasons people would prefer the Challenger to the Viper. My brother prefererred the SRT8 Super Bee to the Viper for those vary reasons and that's just one example. Also, in a race his Super Bee was equal to my Gen 1. It was not equally as fast as my Gen 2, but close enough that the other benefits outweighed the speed and Viper looks.
Also, IMO the best looking American muscle car is not the GTS Viper. That may be your opinion, but it isn't everyone's. I prefer a few cars ahead of the GTS Viper. Many people on this board could probably make a list of better looking ones, but there is no sense because it would just be opinions...
(For the curious: in the American muscle category I prefer the 1971 Hemi Cuda, 1971 Charger R/T 440 6-pack - either hood, the 1969 Plymouth Superbird, and the 1964 Plymouth Sport Fury 426 wedge). All of these that are in very good to excellent condition are selling for way more than a Gen 2 Viper. Curious...
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RobZilla
Enthusiast
I do not disagree. Actually as evident by my status <------ I am an owner. Don't get me wrong, the viper is one of the best American muscle cars. I am not disputing that. The fact that everyone on this boards opinion is similar to that is not a driving force for their value.
As for the Obama administration I am as tired of the b.s. as the next guy. Staying on topic, the fact still remeains: the value of the viper has seen it's height and it is getting farther away in the rear view.
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