Who's GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

[Fadi]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

Ron, I am just taking car vs. car into consideration. Full fluids vs. full fluids. 3450 lbs vs. 3132 lbs. When you add weight to both cars, it will be the same thing, unless you add more weight to the Z06 than the Viper. Being 165 lbs, it doesnt get much lighter than that..

My car dynoed at 455 rwhp on a Mustang dyno and 460 rwhp on a dynojet. I did dyno about 8 rwhp more than the average Z06, but my car is stock.

I'd like to run again with even take offs with a video, but it looks like Bob is not willing to run again. I will make sure next time I run into a Viper and get it on video, that it is an even start so I am not at a large disadvantage. I would suspect that with a fair race and an even start, a Z06 would be about 2 cars ahead of a GTS with 460 rwhp from a roll up to 150 or so. I hope to find out soon.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

Funny Motor Trend listed the Z06 weight 100 lbs heavier than that. Mistake or are you optimistic? Or has the general added weight over time (note the Viper is heavier than it was in 2003 when mine came out as 3360). If you disagree I suggest you actually weigh your car and send MT a letter.

Unless you can drive your car by remote control, with no fuel in the tank, I think you should add in a normal load. That does reduce the difference in power to weight ratio some. Let's see, using the weight listed by Motor Trend (as I received the copy today I have it handy).
3234 + 450 = 3684 / 460 = 8.0
3460 + 450 = 3910 / 459 = 8.5

So you can see the difference is .5 lb/hp. Factor in the aero effects (you do agree that a stock GTS has a top speed about the same as a Z06 with less hp correct?) and at high speeds the Z06 is not more. In fact if the aero gets up to 30 hp difference the power to weight less aero becomes almost identical. It only gets worse with added speed.

 

[Fadi]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

Funny Motor Trend listed the Z06 weight 100 lbs heavier than that. Mistake or are you optimistic? Or has the general added weight over time (note the Viper is heavier than it was in 2003 when mine came out as 3360). If you disagree I suggest you actually weigh your car and send MT a letter.

Unless you can drive your car by remote control, with no fuel in the tank, I think you should add in a normal load. That does reduce the difference in power to weight ratio some. Let's see, using the weight listed by Motor Trend (as I received the copy today I have it handy).
3234 + 450 = 3684 / 460 = 8.0
3460 + 450 = 3910 / 459 = 8.5

So you can see the difference is .5 lb/hp. Factor in the aero effects (you do agree that a stock GTS has a top speed about the same as a Z06 with less hp correct?) and at high speeds the Z06 is not more. In fact if the aero gets up to 30 hp difference the power to weight less aero becomes almost identical. It only gets worse with added speed.

The Z06 weighs in 3132 lbs, not sure what's up with MT stating otherwise. This has been stated over and over again.

And a stock GTS has no where near the top speed of a Z06. The Z06 is rated at 198 mph and has gone over 200 mph on the autobahn more than a few times with a GPS system. Check the Corvette forums, or if you REALLY want me to, I can dig it up for you.

3132 + 450 lbs = 3582 / 460 = 7.78
3450 + 450 lbs = 3900 / 459 = 8.49

.71 lb/hp of a difference in power/weight. That is big. Even if you take in the ever so slightly better aero of the GTS, that wouldn't be enough to make up the big power/weight difference and the gearing advantage of the Z06.

We can talk numbers all day. Fact is that the GTS with 459 rwhp got a 1.5 car jump on me and the momentum, and I was still able to reel it in as speeds increased as you can CLEARLY see in the video. Did he win? Technically, yes. But one must take the given circumstances in which the race took place also into consideration.

If there are ANY Vipers (GTS or non GTS) in the 460-510 rwhp range in the MI area and are willing to run, I would love to set up a fair race and capture it on video.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

Have you had YOUR car on a scale? They do have a scale at Milan and at every weigh station on the freeway. I am sure MT has it in for the vettes and is intentionally misquoting - or maybe the vette has been on an anti-diet. Note the SRT-10 gained a similar amount in its first 2 years. Uncanny to have the initial offerings low for the mags and then increase for reliability, nvh, cost, etc.

I have read the emails from Bob (the guy in the red GTS) and your accounts differ. I suggest you hold on until spring as most Vipers have gone into hibernation. But giving your comments here you may find one that video tapes you in the future (had I been your subject of a video posted on an internet site without permission I would hunt you down, and not for discussion either - especially with lic plate showing).

And I cannot seem to get it through your skull gearing means nothing at those speeds. Just select a different transmission ratio. Power is all that matters. That red GTS with 459 RWHP should blow by you at top speed.

 

[Steve 00RT/10]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

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Like I said, I am more than willing to race again and get the runs on video with even take offs, side by side. Win or lose. Let him know that if he is available, I am willing to play. This week is supposed to be very nice out, with a few 60+ degree days out.


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I e-mailed him this thread. I don't really think he cares about lining up with you again...win or lose....but I could be wrong. It was a spontaneous thing for him on one of the last drives of the year. He was surprised to keep up as well as he did. He never once said he beat you--just that he thought the runs were pretty even. That being said, your video to me is somewhat inconclusive to the fact that "you were reeling him in." From all the ZO6 talk floating around these days, you'd think a new ZO6 would literally smoke a 10 year old Viper with exhaust mods only. Didn't happen. I've known Bob for over 6 years... and while you are stating the event as you remember it, I don't know you at all. Unless he tells me any different, it will be his version I take to the bank.

Steve

BTW...my car is 60-90 in 3 seconds -- pushing 4100 pounds Perhaps we'll meet someday, although not likely as I'm 500 miles from there.


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And I never said I won. Technically, he did because he was ahead, but, what I did say was the circumstances of the race and that I was reeling him in, which I was and is evident in the video.

Ron, we both had passengers in our cars. Given that we have a side by side race with no disadvantage to either car and even take offs, I think the Z06 would pull significantly.

3450 / 459 = 7.5 lb/hp
3132 / 460 = 6.8 lb/hp

If he doesn't want to race again, that is ok. The car ran well, and it was fast. I admit that. But, I hope that you guys realize how much it takes for one car to overcome the hit and the momentum of another car and to actually start reeling it in, which was the case in our race(s).

I had fun..

p.s.- and lets not make it sound like the Z06 isn't as good as it is hyped up to be when it comes to performance just because this is a 10 yr old car. It is a 10 yr old car with 60 extra rwhp over stock putting it right around the 540 bhp mark.

Bob replied to the video forum. What fun we're having now Here's what he had to say.

Steve

submitted by 175815 3 hours ago score (0)

"Hay Fadi, please show the video out of your rear window when you were trying to pull away from me. Perhaps this would better show the ability of a Z06 to "reel in" a mostly stock and somewhat ancient 1997 Viper. I do not recall you pulling on me at all. "

Sure was fun however!
Like the black wheels. Great looking Z06!

submitted by 443398 2 hours ago score (0)

"I believe the Z06 won the editing race only. If you turn up the volume really loud, you can hear the Viper letting off the gas as traffic closes in ahead. The Z06 gains a few feet only after the Viper begins to let off the gas. The Z06 should have a definite advantage in this contest, 50 more HP and 300 - 400 lb advantage over a Viper with the added weight of the roll bar. A Z06 should be able to strongly pull on a 10 year old Viper. I would take the Vette back to the dealership and look for a reason why this car is running so poorly."

 

[Fadi]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

If you guys cant see that I clearly stopped his pull dead in its track and started to pull on him BEFORE he let off the gas, then you are just lying to yourselves.

Tell Bob to bring out the Viper and lets race. Get the Viper out, lets do a 50-150 punch with EVEN starts and NO fly bys, and I will show you what a "poor running" STOCK Z06 will do against a FULL bolt on, 540 BHP GTS. The next 3 days are going to be mid-high 50's and dry.

I am ready, and will be waiting for his response..

 

[Fadi]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

Have you had YOUR car on a scale? They do have a scale at Milan and at every weigh station on the freeway. I am sure MT has it in for the vettes and is intentionally misquoting - or maybe the vette has been on an anti-diet. Note the SRT-10 gained a similar amount in its first 2 years. Uncanny to have the initial offerings low for the mags and then increase for reliability, nvh, cost, etc.

I have read the emails from Bob (the guy in the red GTS) and your accounts differ. I suggest you hold on until spring as most Vipers have gone into hibernation. But giving your comments here you may find one that video tapes you in the future (had I been your subject of a video posted on an internet site without permission I would hunt you down, and not for discussion either - especially with lic plate showing).

And I cannot seem to get it through your skull gearing means nothing at those speeds. Just select a different transmission ratio. Power is all that matters. That red GTS with 459 RWHP should blow by you at top speed.

A 459 rwhp GTS would blow by me up top?? I love how you Viper guys do a lot of internet talking. GET THE CAR OUT AND LETS RACE!!!! This would settle everything and prove that a 459 rwhp GTS, given an equal start, would not stand a chance!!

 

[lankhoss]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

I raced an Evo one night from a roll. We lined up next to each other, and his car was SO FREAKIN' LOUD I couldn't hear him honk, and he got a massive jump on me. I'd say it was at least a car before I ever hit the gas. After I stomped it, he continued to pull EVEN MORE. By the end of the race, he was about 2.5 cars ahead of me, even though I laid into it from about 50 - 130. We finally got lined up evenly again, and both took off at the SAME TIME and neither of us could pull on each other. When you are dealing with this much horsepower, a jump can really make a massive difference.

Also, I weighed my car (2006 model with 2lz package) at a track back in June, and it was 3315 with me in it and 3/4 - 7/8 tank of gas. I weigh about 165 - 170lbs.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

So now it is a "full bolt on" GTS. Wow, how did you make that out of "10 year old Viper with exhaust mods only?"

His RWHP is indicative of headers/exhaust.

He also said you guys had at it for a long period. With many spirited runs. And you filming along the way. And you seem to post the only clip that seems to make you look good (in your eyes). So whats up? Was he wrong about how many miles and instances or was it a one shot deal as you imply?

 

[lankhoss]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

What the f' is with this "10 year old" Viper crap??? That thing is faster than a brand new SRT-10. Geezus I don't get some people.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

I was quoting the owner. So what the f is up with that?

 

[GR8_ASP]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

And lankhoss I understand that no car in the world can ever beat a Z. You have made that clear. So it must have been a poor driver then.

 

[PatentLaw]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

I actually find Roofum's posts more entertaining and informative than Fadi. The same old drone really gets old after some time. 200 posts of I am better than you.....ugh.....

Another perfect reason not to have "racing" posts. It encourages this behavior.

 

[Fadi]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

So now it is a "full bolt on" GTS. Wow, how did you make that out of "10 year old Viper with exhaust mods only?"

His RWHP is indicative of headers/exhaust.

He also said you guys had at it for a long period. With many spirited runs. And you filming along the way. And you seem to post the only clip that seems to make you look good (in your eyes). So whats up? Was he wrong about how many miles and instances or was it a one shot deal as you imply?

Are you serious? The clip I posted is the one that made HIM look good. The other ones were 3 secs long with me getting OFF the gas because I was about to rear end the guy.

This is very simple. I don't care what this Bob guy says because I know what happend. You guys don't care what I say because you want to believe your Viper buddy (Even though the video CLEARLY shows otehrwise). So, why don't we re-race? Is someone scared? Does someone KNOW that given an even start, it would be over for them? If not, then re-race. Drop the talk, and LETS RACE!! It's that simple!!

 

[Fadi]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

So now it is a "full bolt on" GTS. Wow, how did you make that out of "10 year old Viper with exhaust mods only?"

Why don't you re-read what your Viper buddy posted earlier..

"The only mods on that car(as of a couple months ago) are Belanger headers and exhaust (no cats), Fidanza flywheel, tubes, and I think a [*****] airbox. It's a strong car!"

What do you call a Viper with headers, no cats, exhaust, smooth tubes, and an airbox?

 

[GR8_ASP]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

So you post the video that shows you in the worst light. And you expect to be believed? Damn you must think we are gullible. If you had video that showed you walking away from him multiple times I am certain that is what you would have shown. Unless you were bent on showing his license plate.

And it sounds like you guys had at it many times. So why do you need or want a rerace. Sounds like the response from a sore non-winner (Bob said they were neck to neck with no clear winner).

And by the way the video does not clearly show otherwise. Not unless viewed with rose colored glasses or under the influence of oneself.

 

[lankhoss]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

And lankhoss I understand that no car in the world can ever beat a Z. You have made that clear. So it must have been a poor driver then.

Man, I have no idea what the hell is wrong with you. I said NOTHING about the Z being the fastest car in the world. I gave you a "real world" example of how a race can be lopsided by a jump and also gave you a "real world" weight of the car on a drag scale. You always make these crazy comments that are nothing short of being a total ****.

This video and "situtation" is completely inconclusive. Sounds like fun, but you can't tell which car is actually faster. I made no comment DIRECTLY AT YOU, but the whole "10 year old car" comment is completely ********, NO MATTER WHO MADE IT. Anyone who thinks this "race" clearly defined EITHER car being faster is fooling themselves. You have two different sides of the story, and a short video. It's suggestive, but inconclusive. I think the Vette would win, because of a power:weight ratio....but hell, you really won't know unless they line up next to each other.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

Well, not sure if you know but smooth tubes were stock for ACR applications. A flywheel adds no horsepower, and at high speeds adds little to nothing as it is more for transitions. To my knowledge there is no effective airbox. It is probably a Vipair. Read the board archives if you want info on that (highly doubted for any performance gain).

No cal changes. No throttle bodies. No cam. No porting/manifold changes. No power adders of any kind. Yep that is a highly built car. As I said 460 hp is reasonable for Belanger headers and exhaust.

 

[Fadi]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

So you post the video that shows you in the worst light. And you expect to be believed? Damn you must think we are gullible. If you had video that showed you walking away from him multiple times I am certain that is what you would have shown. Unless you were bent on showing his license plate.

And it sounds like you guys had at it many times. So why do you need or want a rerace. Sounds like the response from a sore non-winner (Bob said they were neck to neck with no clear winner).

And by the way the video does not clearly show otherwise. Not unless viewed with rose colored glasses or under the influence of oneself.

I did not post any other vids SINCE WE NEVER GOT ANY REAL GOOD RACE IN, like I stated before. I don't know what this Bob guy is talking about stating that we had many runs in. the ONLY run we had that was worth talking about was the one I posted, which was me showing that I was reeling him in, and doing it hard too. I have another clip of me reeling him in hard in third gear and about to rear end him, but that was about 5 secs long and shutting down right away due to traffic.

I raced an Evo one night from a roll. We lined up next to each other, and his car was SO FREAKIN' LOUD I couldn't hear him honk, and he got a massive jump on me. I'd say it was at least a car before I ever hit the gas. After I stomped it, he continued to pull EVEN MORE. By the end of the race, he was about 2.5 cars ahead of me, even though I laid into it from about 50 - 130. We finally got lined up evenly again, and both took off at the SAME TIME and neither of us could pull on each other. When you are dealing with this much horsepower, a jump can really make a massive difference.

Also, I weighed my car (2006 model with 2lz package) at a track back in June, and it was 3315 with me in it and 3/4 - 7/8 tank of gas. I weigh about 165 - 170lbs.

Viper guys know this, Lankhoss. They just don't want to admit it, that's all, and know that with an even start, that Viper will not win.

So, your car weighs in at about 3150 lbs and it is a 2LZ that is about 15 lbs heavier than a 1LZ. So, that would make my car weigh about 3135. Oh, what do you know, isn't that what I said earlier?

I am done posting here though. If this guy wants to re-race, PM me. But, I suspect that he wont because he, along everyone else here, know that with an even start, he would be histroy (Just look at the video, and it is clear from there)

peace.

 

[lankhoss]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

I have had several people consider my car "full bolt ons" with a CAI, and headers (including the X-pipe and high flow cats)

 

[SnakeBitten]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

Wheres the video????

Anyway just to clear up some false statements...A GTS is not in the same league as the Z06 in top speed....The GTS was clocked at 192mph whereas the Z06 was tested to 198mph....Also the Z06 will get to that speed alot faster than the GTS would...Its almost 4 secs faster to 150 than the GTS so I dont see a GTS with just exhaust and headers being able to bridge a 4 second or thereabout gap...Unless it gets a good hit...No doubt that if they run again the Z06 will win in an even race..This is assuming the GTS only has the upgrades mentioned...

Only way the GTS, if thats all the mods it has, can run with the C6 Z06 like that is if he had the hit...Makes perfect sense...Ive run on an e39 M5 in my car[not a viper] as he hit the gas. I stayed right on his bumper all the way up to about 120mph..Straight up it would destroy me but me getting the jump on him kept me right on his bumper....You guys are making too much out of this...Its just cars man...Two great cars with the GTS being christened the "Legend in its own time"...What have you got to be upset about if a new Z06 beats it. Its supposed to..

Anybody that believes a GTS with just headers/intake/exhaust is gonna be even or beat the new Z06 is a fool...Lets be realistic now people...Most of you are combover, old farts so you should be more reasonable...

 

[GR8_ASP]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

I have only bolt-ons myself. But I believe most would consider it more than exhaust

Never been on the inside of my engine. Never had the manifolds or valve covers off. And everything I have added is physically bolted in place. AKA bolt-ons.

Fadi I agree you should leave. Your video is not conclusive as you so think and I believe you had much more video but it just did not tell your story.

Edit - A couple of us have the benefit of hearing the other side of the story and from someone that we have known much longer and who has credibility. That specific GTS has been known as a strong performer all along. So no it does not surprise me that at higher speeds it could keep even with a stock Z06. Especially with colder temps which I do believe favor the rich f/a ratio Viper more than the vette.

 

[Fadi]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

Wheres the video????

Oops, here is the Video..

Z06 vs. Viper

Wheres the video????

...Unless it gets a good hit...

Which it clearly did and you can see this at the VERY beginning of the video. Who ever says he let off before I was about to **** his doors off is just kidding themselves.

Ron, I am leaving now. Just remember that a 459 rwhp (Probably more, who knows) Just got reeled in and was gonna get passed by a STOCK Corvette while the Viper got a MASSIVE jump and the momentum. Don't ever forget that. Peace.

 

[lankhoss]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

The whole "bolt ons" thing is so debatable. People consider Nitrous a "bolt on" and also still consider the car naturally aspirated, whereas others don't feel the same.

In general, it is just minor stuff that doesn't really change the engine that much. Basically just an intake/air filter, exhaust, pulleys (if people still use those) computer chip or program, and throttle body work.

And I know what you're getting at But Forced Induction doesn't fit into the "bolt on" category heh

 

[GR8_ASP]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

BTW just so you hear his side. He passed you to egg you on. Let off to let you come up close and then you were both at WOT. And not much was changing at that point. If that were true the so called jump was just an inducement and not an advantage. I read that before seeing the video and the video tends to back that up as the Z06 closed to 1 car length quickly and then was fairly stable. You can hear the throttling at the same time the Z06 inches forward so I do believe Bob in that he let off at that point due to traffic. Perspective clearly impacts what the video communicates.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

And I know what you're getting at But Forced Induction doesn't fit into the "bolt on" category heh

Aw shucks. I agree and I knew that. 'tis fun to argue with Fadi. You can just sense his anger over the internet

 

[SRT10]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

'tis fun to argue with Fadi. You can just sense his anger over the internet

After viewing the Video tape the winner is .......BOB!
Nice kill Bob.
Hey Fadi, put a Paxton in and than maybe you can beat a 10 year old Viper.

 

[lankhoss]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

Well quit picking on him! He just can't wait to run into an SRT-10, that's all.

He'll be the first to admit he got his ass handed to him if he gets beat once he encounters one. But he knows that won't be the case is all.

 

[Steve 00RT/10]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

Which it clearly did and you can see this at the VERY beginning of the video. Who ever says he let off before I was about to **** his doors off is just kidding themselves

You've got to be kidding. In no way, shape, or form does your clip show you getting ready to blow his doors off. You're hallucinating! I can clearly see the traffic in front and hear him let off the gas when playing your clip REAL LOUD. Looked dead even before that. Your whole rational makes no sense. If you immediately 'neutralized his 'fly by'(due to your much superior power)--you would have sucked him up like a dirty shirt during the course of your clip. That absolutely did not happen! Bob's version is MUCH more consistent ...according to your own clip.

What do you call a Viper with headers, no cats, exhaust, smooth tubes, and an airbox?

A very lightly modded Viper. It's questionable whether cats add or subtract power on a NA car. Airbox--come on, give me a break. Smooth tubes--what Viper doesn't have them. They're $50.

The fact that he stuck with you at all bears repeating

Steve

 

[Supercharged Vipermad]

Re: Who\'s GTS did I race this afternoon on 23 N in MI?

I am done posting here though.

Best thing you've said in DAYS!! Thank you and goodbye. You were SO already in the gas as he "flew by" you....and you expect us to believe that he caught you by surprise and the mighty HP and TQ of your Z hauled you up to close the gap? Like none of us have EVER been there. You saw him coming in your mirror, you were already on the gas as he went by. To hear you tell it....you were cruising along, minding your own business, when this Viper "flys by" you at 100MPH. You gas it and IMMIDIATELY catch up.

You were done here ong ago....bu-bye.