***??? Smoke and fire!

[black mamba1]

So I am out doing some very spirited driving w/ my buddy who has a 774 rwhp GTS, we are really doing it. Been at it for about 15 minutes...when....I hear a rattling coming from my engine..then I feel power loss...then I see smoke coming from my hood....LOTS OF IT, and the Viper will not shift into 5th at all. We pull over, I pop the hood, and I see fire. My buddy puts out the fire w/ his extinguisher (if you dont have a fire extinguisher in your Viper pick up one today!!). There is no visible damage at all. None. But it is obvious the oil has leaked from the engine, from somewhere. These cars were built to be driven fast and hard...I am totally clueless as to what caused the oil leak. I also saw two Vipers w/ oil leaks at Lime Rock last week...is this common and what is usually the cause?

Oh, and Thanks to my man GforceinCT for driving me to Tators and back home! You are the best!

 

[agentf1]

Could it have neen from the power steering pump? They sell a drain/vent for it to pipe it down below the exhaust manifold when it get sreal hot and overflows. You also need to watch that the cap does not come off. I am pretty sure this vent fixes that also.

 

[ILLSMOQ]

When headers go in...all of the sudden there is a lot less room.. Oil or clutch hydraulic fluid? The clutch master to slave cylinder hose runs very close to the exhaust system.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Might help to clue us in as to where the fire was located...?

 

[black mamba1]

Might help to clue us in as to where the fire was located...?

If you are standing and facing the car, the fire was on the right side of the engine down just below where the exhaust manifold. I am pretty sure it was an oil leak, just dont know where it came from. There was a puddle of what looked and smelled like oil when I pulled over.

 

[Viper Specialty]

If you are standing and facing the car, the fire was on the right side of the engine down just below where the exhaust manifold. I am pretty sure it was an oil leak, just dont know where it came from. There was a puddle of what looked and smelled like oil when I pulled over.

Hmm... it could be engine oil or ATF+4 (PS Fluid) on that side of the car. Not many places the engine could be leaking on that side, either head gasket, oil pan or valve cover. My bet is on ATF, its more likely to have come out in sufficient quantity to burn... and it has a lower flash point than Mobil1 as far as I know.

 

[black mamba1]

I would agree, except that I could hear rattling from the engine, the sound of lifters....not good.

 

[viperflex]

Sorry about your Mamba. I hope your car is still under warranty. Let us know what you upgrade!

 

[Steve-Indy]

Some 04's had cam bolt issues and crank damper bolt issues...see a GOOD dealer.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Advice above is good. I have had oil leak issues (w/o the noises). My oil fill cap would leak when on the track. Seemed to be aggravated by aggressive braking and possibly right turns. Mad a mess of the front of the engine but did not get on the exhaust. Easy to check as the oil was on the valve cover side.

No issues with the Gen III power steering that I know of.

 

[black mamba1]

I read an older thread indicating that the 04's and early 05 SRT's had a problem w/ oil leaks and bearing failures under hard driving, that what happened to me is not all that uncommon. Sh*t, I wish I hadda known that b4, but it really could have been worse. I will deff reinforce things to make sure she doesnt do that again.

 

[Viper Specialty]

I read an older thread indicating that the 04's and early 05 SRT's had a problem w/ oil leaks and bearing failures under hard driving, that what happened to me is not all that uncommon. Sh*t, I wish I hadda known that b4, but it really could have been worse. I will deff reinforce things to make sure she doesnt do that again.

I am not aware of the oil leak issue, unless its just something I am overlooking, but the bearing problems were more related to the 2003-2004 cars, 05-06 use different main bearings to help combat the 3/4 rod issues. On the downside, their oil pump IMHO is too small to adequately oil the engine after these bearing changes occured, causing the pressure drop from 50 to 25 PSI or so at hot idle. 2004+ cars also use narrower rod bearing than 2003's, so that didnt exactly help the issue either for 2004.

 

[black mamba1]

I am not aware of the oil leak issue, unless its just something I am overlooking, but the bearing problems were more related to the 2003-2004 cars, 05-06 use different main bearings to help combat the 3/4 rod issues. On the downside, their oil pump IMHO is too small to adequately oil the engine after these bearing changes occured, causing the pressure drop from 50 to 25 PSI or so at hot idle. 2004+ cars also use narrower rod bearing than 2003's, so that didnt exactly help the issue either for 2004.

Great info. I will upgrade to the better bearings during the repair. THANKS!

 

[black mamba1]

ok, I just got a call from Chuck Tator, his guys put my car on the lift this morning....the no. 3 connecting rod is hanging out my block! Chuck says this is extremely rare, he has only seen this once before. They will assess all damage, but this block is done. Soooo.....I will be getting a new block and now is the time to port and polish and bore and all that good stuff when I get my new block. But as far as what caused it...we are not sure yet. I bought it second hand w/ 1,500 miles on it, Chuck says it might not have been broken in correctly. I will update you guys as we get more info.

 

[plumcrazy]

wow, keep us posted

 

[Kai SRT10]

ok, I just got a call from Chuck Tator, his guys put my car on the lift this morning....the no. 3 connecting rod is hanging out my block! Chuck says this is extremely rare, he has only seen this once before. They will assess all damage, but this block is done. Soooo.....I will be getting a new block and now is the time to port and polish and bore and all that good stuff when I get my new block. But as far as what caused it...we are not sure yet. I bought it second hand w/ 1,500 miles on it, Chuck says it might not have been broken in correctly. I will update you guys as we get more info.

Sounds like the #3 rod bearing oil starvation issue to me.

 

[GforcesinCA]

Keith - lookn forward to tearing up CT highways with you once again after you rebuild. Think 800+hp so i dont have to keep lookin at you in my rear view mirror! At least it ended up with only the car suffering and I got to break in my fire extinguisher! It was a good ride while it lasted......

Take care buddy!
Greg

 

[Joseph Dell]

ok, I just got a call from Chuck Tator, his guys put my car on the lift this morning....the no. 3 connecting rod is hanging out my block! Chuck says this is extremely rare, he has only seen this once before. They will assess all damage, but this block is done. Soooo.....I will be getting a new block and now is the time to port and polish and bore and all that good stuff when I get my new block. But as far as what caused it...we are not sure yet. I bought it second hand w/ 1,500 miles on it, Chuck says it might not have been broken in correctly. I will update you guys as we get more info.

If you are getting a new motor, odds are it is a crate motor which means no special chances for mods. oh well. But as for the 'didn't break it in properly', that sounds like BS to me. Explain to me the physics of how an improper breakin would cause a rod to hang out of a motor? i just don't see it.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Since you a dealing with Chuck, I highly advise seeing if he will work with you on getting a new 2005-2006 shortblock in that car. It will come with the new main bearings, as well as using the larger crank damper bolt, so it kills two birds with one stone.

It is the same dealer price (within 100 bucks at last check) and bolts up 100% the same, so there should not be an issue. The wiring harness will need some mods, but I can work with you on this, I have built dozens of them for cross-year engine swaps.

Too install a 2006 block, you need:

1. 2006 Block
2. 2005-2006 Crank Position Sensor
3. 05-06 Crank Damper Bolt
4. 2006 Engine Wiring Harness
5. My Modifications to the wiring Harness (I will need your 2004 harness as a donor, and i'll get the 2006 harness for you... mod and ship to you)
6. (optional) 2006 PCM & Knock Sensors, I will make them operational- otherwise, I will just remove their wiring. Will require about 40 minutes of work on Chucks end too in order to add the pins to the C3 PCM Connector.

Altogether, it would be about 500 bucks in parts out of your pocket, or about 1000 if you opt for the PCM and Knock Sensor enable. I make it plug-and-play, so it would be no different than if Chuck was putting together a 2006.

 

[black mamba1]

If you are getting a new motor, odds are it is a crate motor which means no special chances for mods. oh well. But as for the 'didn't break it in properly', that sounds like BS to me. Explain to me the physics of how an improper breakin would cause a rod to hang out of a motor? i just don't see it.

My Tech feels that the motor might have been over-stressed when new, not giving things a chance to "settle" to their normal tolerances. I believe that is what he is referring to. However, this will NOT happen this time. Chuck says I need to take it easy for the first 1000 miles. So, I will take an easy-going trip w/ my wife in the Viper down to North Carolina and back to CT for the break in period.....too bad I cant whip the snot out of any Vettes or Porsches on the way!

I will send the crate motor to Greg Good to start the head work. I am aiming for approx. 650 rwhp n/a. LOOK OUT!

 

[Viper Wizard]

I'm still in the UK and when I get back I'll take a look at the damage. It may NOT be possable to detemine the cause, but we'll see?? Rob my Tech says for sure #3 rod is hanging out of his block! Don't know about the rest and what it will take to get her running again?

Dan under the warranty Chrysler WILL NOT let a Dealer mix different year parts!! Unless it is an updated part for that year vehicle!

 

[Viper Specialty]

Dan under the warranty Chrysler WILL NOT let a Dealer mix different year parts!! Unless it is an updated part for that year vehicle!

??? Didnt know it was Warranteed. He was talking about sending the block out for work, so I assumed not.

 

[mike & juli]

BlackMamba--Good luck with the 'Good' head work!!~~!! (that came out wrong, but not my intention!!)
Chuck--Hope you are still enjoying your stay in the UK!!! Of course, we will be delighted when you come back, but certainly you deserve a well-deserved break....hope your own car is back to running superbly. Have a great time, and a safe trip when you come home!
~juli~

 

[Racer Robbie]

I feel sorry for you. While this has not happened to your viper I had a racing Fram oil filter gasket let go in my NASCAR Late Model at The Race Of Champions at Pocono about 10 years ago. The gasket was not seated properly in the oil filter and it exploded like a grenade. The engine followed 2 seconds later and blew the hell out of the block. The lesson here is to always check the gasket on oil filters, lube it, and do not over tighten it.

Robbie

 

[mike & juli]

Bummer, Robbie----we live and learn, don't we all...!! ~juli

 

[Racer Robbie]

And just think, I was leading with 2 laps to go and a 10 car lead. I was so mad I sold the whole Late Model operation on the spot to two New York City detectives. But there was a bright side to all of this. Coors gave away a case of beer for every lap led. hell I won 98 cases of beer. Coors took a picture of the team standing on a pyramid of Coors beer. We had a hell of a time getting all that beer home! In the end all turned out for the best as the 2 cops ended up buying our team a Super Speedway Late Model which we raced for them down south on the NASCAR Super Speedways. You have not lived until you have raced on the high banks of Daytona and Charlotte.

Robbie

 

[mike & juli]

Robbie, again, ARGGGGGGHHHHH!!!! I can 'feel' that frustration!! Ah well, you gave it your best shot and did well with what you could...these things happen...as evidenced by our Lime Rock event...both instructors cars broke down at the track (nothing major--oil cooler, oil leak)...both cars had to be trailered to Chuck's. Still an awesome day thanx to ACRSteve and Chuck also...one I will never forget!!! ~juli~
\

 

[black mamba1]

Keith - lookn forward to tearing up CT highways with you once again after you rebuild. Think 800+hp so i dont have to keep lookin at you in my rear view mirror! At least it ended up with only the car suffering and I got to break in my fire extinguisher! It was a good ride while it lasted......

Take care buddy!
Greg

Thanks Greg for saving my car! W/out that extinguisher the fire would have spread so that the entire car probably would have been totalled. Glad another VCA bro was in the house! Now...about this rear view mirror thingy....Let me just say this...when I get my car back things will be much different, you might as well remove your rear view mirror the next time we hook up! By the way you should put a picture of your red ACR up in your Avatar..I have never seen any car w/ such a deep rich red finish. Your Viper is absolutely the most gorgeous Viper I have ever laid eyes on (except for mine! )!