Z06 against SRT 10

[toddt]

Vetteboy--

As promised, I weighed my ACR today.

Wow! 3300 Pounds!!!! That is with no one in the car, AND spare tire IN. Exactly 1/2 tank of gas.

This changes the HP-weight calculations considerably in the stock viper ACR's favor.

With 170 lb Driver:
<FONT size="6">
ACR: 7.54 lbs/HP
Z06: 8.19 lbs/HP
</FONT s>

For a difference of <FONT COLOR="Red">9 %</FONT c>

I'm afraid I'm going to have to uncrown your car as the 0-60 king until I see more information. For now, I'm going to leave the question up in the air.

But there is no question who the HP king is, right?

Hey, Vetteboy! Do you got one of these?

I do!!!

 

[King GTS]

This topic has been exhausted in the past. For those interested, I've bumped a thread in the Viper/Racing/Dyno section titled, "Viper vs. Z06 = Bad Comparrison".


The Z06 can't touch a Viper stock vs. stock! According to Car & Driver and I quote,


"Beyond the basic formula of a big engine out front, fat driven wheels to the rear, and one very happy driver perched in the middle, the Z06 and the Viper have little in common."


The numbers that count........


Viper was 3.6 sec quicker to 150 MPH....
Viper was 0.4 sec faster in the 1/4 Mile....
Viper was 1.4 sec per lap faster on the road course...."


One of our members even informed us that the mags even geared the Z06 for a WOW 0-60 for the uninformed!!


My view hasn't changed. Comparing these two cars is a bad comparrison! The Z06 is a great little rain car but it's NO VIPER! I guess the Vette guys will always be comparing their car to ours. The debate will always rage on but lets keep perspective.

 

[DBK1]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by toddt:
Let me first sincerely apologize for getting a little heated. I do NOT ever want this to become the F-body board. If it's me you're talking about, I am really sorry I came across so biased and subjective...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hehe, thanks but I was talking to King GTS. Most of your points are valid unlike his were(GTS&lt; you just happened to incur my moderate wrath because of the super dogging) ....

I'm not offended by anything that comes out as the truth. I'm not gonna sit here and try in vain to prove that a Z06 is as fast as a Viper(even though in the right hands it can be very close) or that it draws near as much attention. My proverbial 'goat' is 'got' when people draw silly comparisons and lambast cars based on their subjective appeals. Why would their be nothing "special at all" about a z06? It's the best mass produced so-called-bargain sports car in the world, by a large margin. I don't think too many people would argue that, or at least give the nod that it's one of very few contenders. And what's with these ABSOLUTELY ******** statements like the "z06 is a nice little rain car"? Oh puuhhhleeease. That's like saying a CBR929 is a decent bike to stroll around on in comparison to a Hayabusa. Either way you'll be kicking *** . Any car that is capable of covering 1320 feet in around 12 seconds is fast. Very fast. And any car pulling anywhere near 1g is exhibiting a ton of grip. I don't go around bashing the M5 as a ***** car because it has those useless two extra seats, just like I don't rag on Vipers for being very uncivilized(the key here being subjectivity, i.e what do you want from your car).

I can totally understand why you guys are giving Vetteboy hell, this is after all your board and it's deserves respect, but I would just expect more from a crowd that owns 80k cars. I know I know, the Vette board has plenty of arrogant goons that think they are untouchable in their coupes and such, but with such a large cross section of ownership(since the Vette is the all american sports car, by virtue of the fact that like all else in the US it is attainable by all) it's to be expected. I just figured that in a crowd more of people willing to put up with a harsh vehicle for the trade offs of power and speed, they'd have head a little more level on the understanding of automotive excellence and subjectivity.

Peace out guys...!

p.s. Lets have a Viper-Vette shootout in Detroit!

 

[toddt]

DBZ06--Excellent remarks! Well spoken. I hope you take some of this back to the vette boards and give them food for thought.

In response to the Car And Driver quotes above...I think those were for the 385HP version of the Z06, right?

To clarify my 0-60 remarks...Yes the Z06 is geared for 0-60.

Is that somehow cheating? NO WAY!!!!!

Any way you can get to 60 counts.

If the Z06 is now 0-60 king, so be it.

The very idea is truly incredible--for just a LITTLE less weight, the Corvette beats a VIPER to 60! A V10 VIPER! Beaten to 60 by a V8 Normally Aspirated!

Truly that is an amazing accomplishment for the Chevy crowd!

But I really think we need more testing and numbers to give up on the 99 ACR. I believe I get to 60 in less than 4 seconds. Every time I try. I can get to 60 IN 4 seconds with a passenger.

I use Ben's launch technique, and I don't power shift to second.

My ACR is 100% stock with stock tires, exhaust, and intake. So I still have to count my car as continuing to dispute the title, though I must acknowledge that the Z06(405HP) might edge me with the TCS and gearing. If so, BRAVO...

But let's find out more first.

I claim, undisputed, the HP/Weight title of American Mass-Production Sports Cars, all time.

But I promise I won't add a badge to my car.

 

[toddt]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jim Hodel:
Did somebody want weights of a Z06 and Viper?

Our 99 GTS weighed 3450 on the truck stop scale and our 01 Z06 weighed 3150 pounds on the same scale. Both weights were without me, and with about a half a tank of gas.

Jim

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Jim! I'm taking the ACR this week to the scales to see how much of a difference the ACR group makes.

I expect to crack the 3400 mark.

Taking your numbers, and adding 170 pounds for rider:

HP/Weight
Z06: 8.2lbs/hp (405hp number used)
GTS: 7.89lbs/hp (460hp number used, since smoothtubes are universal)

This seems to favor the GTS by a significant margin.
Does anyone see a problem with my math?

 

[toddt]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by No Mercy:
Isn't it funny how the Viper people on a Viper forum think their car is the most awsome machine in the world.

Isn't it funny how the Vette people on a Vette forum think their car is the most awsome machine in the world.

Isn't it funny how the Supra people on a Supra forum think their car is the most awsome machine in the world.

Isn't it funny how the Ferrari people on a Ferrari forum think their car is the most awsome machine in the world.

Anyone see where I am going with this?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, I think the 360 Modena is the most awesome machine in the world.

The Viper just seems a better fit for me right now.

 

[toddt]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DBKZ06:
Wow, you must have some serious issues...Considering there are a shade over 10k Z06's made thus far, at the end of year 2 of a 3 year run, I don't think everyone and their dog has one. Unless the population just dwindled by about 260 million people...

I really love (almost) all fast and exciting cars, but I'm really dissappointed in the attitudes I've encountered like this from Viper guys. I'm not speaking for this guy not letting up on his argument that the Z is faster or whatever, but good god, I've driven all kinds of cars in my life, and the Viper is not soooo amazingly different that you should sh*t on the Z06 as garbage. But alas, obviously I know I'm speaking to a biased crowd, but hey, if you wanna believe you're 80 thousand dollar dodge is really that much better than a 50 thousand dollar chevy, your welcome to it. I mean, come on, these things are soooo hard to get and sooo vastly different.

These aren't lambos folks...I'll just keep on hoping more pure car enthusiasts will pluck their marque biased arrogant heads out of their asses. JMHO.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let me first sincerely apologize for getting a little heated. I do NOT ever want this to become the F-body board. If it's me you're talking about, I am really sorry I came across so biased and subjective. I do my best to be OBjective on the VCA board and really, I try to offend no one--but vetteboy got my goat and shook it around a bit. Again, let me humbly offer my apology for sounding off rudely.

Okay, now as for your other point--10K cars in two years is a LOT, especially for a car trying to be an exotic. Also, the fact that the car looks like its housewife-driven lesser versions hurts it's exotic status.v Imagine there was a 300HP version of the Viper running around, perhaps with a V8. That would DEFINITELY hurt the reputation of the car.

Secondly--you've never heard ME call the Z06 "garbage" or start talking about dollar figures, etc. To me that is irrelevent. You also may have heard me, at one time or another, promote the idea that the Z06 is now the 0-60 KING of America. It's a close call, but I'm willing to give that up.

I've also said at other times that the Z06 may even be the racetrack king, especially for new racers. I've given my props to the Z06--plenty of them. The Z06 is a BAAAD machine. It's the ONLY car I'm interested in racing with the viper.

But having said that, I don't go onto the vette boards and brag on the Viper. That would be silly. If I DID, I would expect to get flamed.

In the end, I'm more interested in truth, than defending a marque. If a new vette comes out and claims the title, BRAVO. More power to them. I will speak of the car in awed tones, never attempting to deride it or rationalize my cars inferiority in those categories.

When someone comes on to the board making claims that I know from research AND experience to be false, I am within my rights to dispute them, and sometimes will--especially with Z06 drivers, whom I find to be the most ignorant of actual Viper numbers of any drivers I interact with. They really all believe their cars are just faster, period. This is really annoying, considering they are wrong.

Again, sorry if I offended...

Regards,

 

[toddt]

Comfort-wise, the viper is right there between a roller-coaster and a 2 1/2 ton dump truck.

I will say, though, that the laptop man has owned practically every car and says the lambo is more uncomfortable than them all.

 

[MichaelP]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by toddt:
Comfort-wise, the viper is right there between a roller-coaster and a 2 1/2 ton dump truck.

I will say, though, that the laptop man has owned practically every car and says the lambo is more uncomfortable than them all.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


HUNG ??? Todd I just got done doing 4000 miles in 10 days. The Viper is comfortable as hell. If you do a search you will see many people do long road trips and love the comfort of the Viper.

What cha talkin bout?

 

[toddt]

I must be doin it wrong....

 

[Big Medicine]

I have a 2000 HT Vette for sale right now.I love it, it looks sweet, and runs like a dream. I will miss it when it's gone.

Why sell it?

Because I saw almost 20 of them yesterday. I didn't see any Vipers. They build far fewer Vipers & sell them at a higher price, which makes each one more individual than its higher production-numbered competition. Combined with its substantially higher performance and awesome looks, the Viper is a clear winner. I'm in the 9 month market for one right now (Blue w/ white stripes, GTS Gen II).

Most Vette guys will agree with aforementioned remark about performance. Comfort wise, prolly not. Both cars are great, but unique to their market.

It's kinda like who screams better?.... Ronnie James Dio/ Axle Rose/ or Bon Scott? How do you really compare one to the others? They all howl like an animal when the music pumps, but differently. I like 'em all.

 

[Gerald]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by toddt:
Thanks Jim! I'm taking the ACR this week to the scales to see how much of a difference the ACR group makes.

I expect to crack the 3400 mark.

Taking your numbers, and adding 170 pounds for rider:

HP/Weight
Z06: 8.2lbs/hp (405hp number used)
GTS: 7.89lbs/hp (460hp number used, since smoothtubes are universal)

This seems to favor the GTS by a significant margin.
Does anyone see a problem with my math?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What is the Torque difference in the same formula...? We all know that's is torque that matters. Also, the rpm RANGE where the max torque / hp is made.. I've got a good friend (Antonia w/a GenI) that loves to take on Z06's. Never lost yet.. He is completley stock on a GenI w/ catback only.. Those GenI's are Torque monsters...


Gerald


Gerald

 

[toddt]

Here's the thing, Max--

I stood next to a 360 Modena. I crawled around under it. I peeeeered into the cockpit. I drooled on the glass covering the (only 400HP) engine.

I'm not saying anyone who drives one should diss us, but I will say that it has about twice the presence of a Viper.

It's hard to argue against 500ft/lbs of torque, though!

Sorry you felt deserted...

 

[91ZR1#661]

King GTS,
Please do me a favor and post your reply about the Z06 on
the corvetteforum(Z06 section).I posted ad nauseam about the
Viper GTS being faster than the 02 Z06 and all I got was
personal attacks.!Not all,but some of those Z06 are major as#hole's. I tried over and over to explain that while the 2 car's may be close 0-60,as the speeds increase the Viper pull's
out to a wide margain by say 150.And then when I talked about
the top speed of the two car's all I got was more personal
attacks.Now that being said the Z06 is a fast car,I saw
a completely stock 02 Z06 run 12.5-12.6 all day long at
the drag strip in bowling green.And I did meet and have
a long discussion with a very nice Z06 owner at the ZR1
convention,so some of the owners are pretty cool.
I just wish for once someone could get it through some of those
thick headed Z06 owners that they DON'T have the fastest american
production sports car.
Maybe when the C6 comes out it will be a different story,but
until then the Viper is the king.Even a ******** corvette owner
like myself knows that.
95yellovett
95 competition yellow Z07 corvette

 

[toddt]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maxwedge:
The Big 3 used to put that on cars in the 60s(Well except with the Mopar Hemi<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is not precisely true, I think--I know that you used to see things like 409HP painted on the hood, but it ALWAYS simply meant cubic inches. NO ONE was getting 1 HP / CI in those days.

 

[91ZR1#661]

Can a educated Viper owner give me the approx top speed of a
Viper GTS? The top speed for a Z06 ranges from 170-173.
Can we talk a little top speed comparison please.
Come on you Z06 owners-how about top speed numbers!
95yellovett

 

[agentf1]

170 - 173 is about correct. It is actually slower than a standard C5 due to gearing. I am sure the GTS has a much faster top speed since it has a 3.07 rear (taller gearing). I don't get to do 170 very often so I like the lower gearing in the Z over the gearing in the standard C5 or GTS. Of course the GTS makes up for its with its torque. Have you driven a Z yet yellowvette? Take one for a ride, you'll be surprized.

 

[Gerald]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 95yellovett:
Can a educated Viper owner give me the approx top speed of a
Viper GTS? The top speed for a Z06 ranges from 170-173.
Can we talk a little top speed comparison please.
Come on you Z06 owners-how about top speed numbers!
95yellovett


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Viper GTS was tested as a top speed of 192 mph (if I'm not mistaken)... Not too bad huh?

Gerald

 

[91ZR1#661]

Now I may be and have been called a total moran,but
170-173 is certainly not equal to 192.Not in the math
classes I have taken at least.That is a very substantial
margin.
Agentf1,
I would love to drive a Z06,but I doubt I'll be suprised
by the power,since my best friend has 650 hp Twin Turbo
C5,that I can drive regularly.But I am sure they are fast.
95yellovett(Z07)

 

[agentf1]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 95yellovett:
Now I may be and have been called a total moran,but
170-173 is certainly not equal to 192.Not in the math
classes I have taken at least.That is a very substantial
margin.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did I miss were somebody said they were equal?

Yes that is pretty significant but how often do you get to utilize the top speed. No place in my nieghborhood. I say put a rear in them Vipers and really kick some butt. 3.55's would be nice. Didn't they lower the rear ratio on the SRT10? I could be mistaken there.

 

[kverges]

verbose ostensibly erudite, yet ultimately futile, polemic ;-)

 

[King GTS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TORQUEULES:
Hello, everyone.


I rarely write on the various car enthusiast forums anymore. Mainly, because of how discouraging it is to witness the manner in which people personally attack each other in defense of their pride and ego. The gradual degenerative progression of this thread, however, for some reason begged my opinions to be expressed, so I?m writing.


First, I want to make it clear that I'm not going to insert myself into the perpetual ******* match of Viper vs Z06. The passion the owners of each harbor for their preference preclude any reasonable concession of a valid point. I do, however, feel compelled to mention that it would behoove members of this forum (and any other forum on which these futile polemics arise) to embrace the concept of agreeing to disagree. Certainly, that would save everyone concerned a plethora of wasted words, the significant expenditure of mental energy, and a multitude of time invested that I have to believe could be applied far more productively elsewhere. These wars of words proves precisely what? That one person can flame another for asserting the subjectivity of preference, for irrationally denying and/or ignoring the presentation of fact in favor of remaining true to that which enkindles the passion responsible for their irrationality? As I alluded to above, the inherent nature of these types of arguments make them unwinnable and abortive for all involved. So, where then is the positive to be drawn from
the venom (no pun intended

) spewed in the preceding posts?


Let's get this part out of the way-I'm the owner of a 2002 Z06. Up until this past May I was also the owner of a 2001 GTS, which I sold to a friend in anticipation of putting myself in an SRT-10 sometime this summer. I harbor great affinity for both cars, each of which I feel merit veneration for their distinctly unique endearments. The Z06 is the more refined of the two, a
truly versatile machine that transcends any and all precedents established by its predecessors. I love its blazing acceleration (fostered by a power delivery that is antithetically brutal and politely smooth), its well mannered (but still uncompromising) suspension, and a feel for the road that is unmatched by anything else I've driven. The Viper, to me, is more a balls-to-the-wall, all out, no excuses mountain of vehicular muscle. It is a true individual amidst a throng of formulaic, exhausted designs. It is also the only ride there is that boasts such inimitably modern styling and at the same time
personifies the charm of the traditional muscle car. The Viper stays true to the roots of that tradition, while the Z06 strays from it only so far as the refinements afforded by technology. Neither should be demeaned for their adherence to their distinctive, if not inordinately disparate pedigrees. Both vehicles bring much to the table, albeit their paths to that table may be somewhat divergent.


This is the point of my post. Not what the owners (and their cars) of Z06s and Vipers do not have in common, but rather what they do. That is, an intense, deep seated passion for good, old fashioned American muscle. Please don't assume that statement insinuates a refusal on my part to acknowledge the age old war of ponies between Chevy, Mopar and Ford. Instead, I adjure
you to stare beyond the pettiness of who has the most horses galloping beneath their hood, who can beat who by how many car-lengths or seconds, who is the king of this or that, whose initial quality receives more accolades, etc. Can we not, instead of constantly trying to prove who's superior among us, focus on the ties bred by what we all have in common- a love of burly, neck-snapping American cars. Sure, we have our favorites among the few cars that truly fall into that category, to which we pledge our loyalty and bias. And that?s great, the reason we segregate ourselves to the degree that we do on these car-specific forums. It's human nature to stand behind that which we are passionate about. Still, I think the Viper vs. ZO6 rift, for example, is comparatively trivial when you consider who the
true targets of our compulsion to prove our dominance should be. I'll elaborate.


Who among you has been down to the track (or even on the street) on an otherwise beautiful day, only to have a lawn mower on steroids pull beside you, begin revving its motor of Lilliputian displacement, and put on a pretentious display of the $20,000+ in power-adding modifications they've made to compensate for a dearth of cubic inches? Is it not the owners of these insect-sounding (and looking vehicles) that assail these forums, launching bitterness at us for having the means to buy the power in stock form that they so desperately try to squeeze out of an insufficient number of cylinders?


Understand, my comments aren't meant as a disparagement so much as they are the expression of observations I've made in respect to a growing condition and the behavior associated with it. While we engage each other in an unnecessary disputation over whose abundance of cubic inches do more better, the ?other? faction stalks the forums of American muscle spitting vicious (and mostly inarticulate) diatribe about how their rides, light of both weight and motor, are regularly trouncing our wheels and the indomitable legends they uphold. Their attacks are often scathing and malicious. In fact, it was the disturbing resemblance to that puerile and abrasive behavior displayed in this thread that provided me the impetus to write this.


Despite the recurring battle of pride intermittently waged by Z06 and Viper owners, I think we rarely (thankfully)
reduce ourselves to the blatant enmity perpetuated in this thread. And I'm glad for that. On a smaller scale (a manner of dissension amongst those essentially on the same side), sure, yeah, Z06 and Viper owners sometimes pit themselves against each other in a dialectic of one-upmanship. In the big picture,
however, we're all on the same team. Our rides--Vipers, Vettes (and, yes, even Mustangs)--are the offspring of the iron muscle that once ruled the streets across America. In the end, the cost of the car doesn't dictate its place in tradition. It's appeal to those who love it is what builds its legacy. The
Vette's tradition is long, storied, and rich. The Viper's tradition is less in linear years, but no less storied or rich. Both comprise and continue the tradition of true American muscle cars.


I'm not preaching the "can't we all get along" rhetoric here and I?m not (intentionally at least) attempting to project a demeanor that might be construed by some as elitist. I'm simply wondering if perhaps the bickering can be put aside, the commonalities acquiesced , the reasons for mutual deference acknowledged, and a revolution (of buzzing, swarming four and six-cylinder insurgents) addressed that I don't think any Viper or Vette owner wants to see evolve into its own tradition. Not at least on the soil owned by the wealth of cubic inches that we all love as much as we do.


A little healthy competition every now and the then notwithstanding, Vipers and Vettes are closer relatives than most of either car's faithful would probably ever be willing to admit.

Have a good day,


TORQUEULES (David)


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ROCK...is that you?

 

[garolittle]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kverges:
verbose ostensibly erudite, yet ultimately futile, polemic ;-)

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good one Keith!

 

[Mike Brunton]

Did anyone read that without falling asleep? Geez, this guy is worse than me!

David, I think the gist of what you're saying has been hashed out many times before. It's no secret that the Viper is faster than the Z06. The Z06 brakes better, and as for turning ability, I think the Viper has it, but I bet the Z06 is easier to use.

But that doesn't really matter.

If you got your car to be the baddest American ride made - well, that's the Viper. If you're willing to give up a bunch of looks, want a lower price, and want some refinement in trade for all-out power, then the Z06 is the car to have.

Anyone who is truly happy with their Z shouldn't care that Viper folks think their car is the superior machine... because most do and that's just the way of things.

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Wasn't the topic "ZO6 Vs. SRT/10"? If that is the case then the ZO6 will be relegated to second class in all aspects, except cup-holders!

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Yes, the SRT/10, as with ALL editions of Viper has the ultimate cup holder, which is right between our muscular legs. I guess when skirts are used as driving suits then you need to look for alterative locations? Great amenity and it definitely fits the Vett personality! Again, I got nothing against Vett's (hell we are looking at one for my WIFE), but go pump your ego on your own site.

 

[SRTRICK]

There seems to be a premium placed on this board for someone who can make their point using "plain-speak", so I wouldn't expect things to get any better without modifying your style of writing. If you are a professional writer, certainly you can learn to write to the audience?

 

[Jim Hodel]

I kind of liked your post, Dave. It made good points and was humorous because of the big words. As I always say, while promulgating one's eccentric cogitations, be aware of platitudinous ponderosities (is that a word?)

I enjoy the ‘this make versus that make’ kinds of discussions because I like all kinds of sports cars, and don't have a great loyalty to any one make.

I've never understood the concept of someone who would 'never own a Ford', or who ‘wouldn't own anything but a Porsche’. When I see a list of cars someone has owned and it is 6 Corvettes or a string of BMWs, I think the owner must lack imagination or something. Why not own different kinds of cars? It seems like to some 'enthusiasts', car make is a religion.

Also, have you noticed that when a new car model comes out, the owners of the ‘old’ version don’t like the new version? I’ve seen that big time with the Porsche 996 and with the upcoming 03 Viper. It seems like disappointment that one’s pride and joy is being superceded, may drive some of the criticism.

Car boards are almost always quite biased, and the medium of the Internet allows (provokes?) behavior that is different from what is typical in a regular conversation, however, the Viper board is still one of the best ones around. There seems to be a more mature attitude then I find on (for example, the Supra Forum), or other car boards that thrive on kill stories and trash talking. You can find that here for sure, but at least it isn’t the main point of too many threads. I also enjoy the BMW M5 board for similar reasons.

Jim

 

[MichaelP]

Let me know where I can order the Cliff notes on these posts. I just could not bring myself to take the time to read all that verbage.

Hell I could get a 1/4 of the way through War and Peace in the time I just saved. ANd just a guess, since I did NOT read them, probably more writing skill in War and Peace.

 

[Guyver1]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Overall, I agree with you. It was just the demeanor of this particular thread that caught my attention. One thing I have always enjoyed about Viper forums is the the scarcity of kill stories that you mentioned are common on some of the other forums. I find that has a lot to do with the fact that Vipers and their owners have exactly zero to prove. They're at the top of the power food chain (stock vs stock at least). Everyone else must measure up to them in that regard, which usually results in the frantic scramble for modification by the owners of cars with less grunt. It's just been that lately some of these threads have seemed to flame out of control. Maybe you're on to something, Jim. Maybe the imminent arrival of the SRT-10 has stirred a bit of uneasiness in some Gen I & II owners. I personally would have loved to have kept my GTS and added an SRT-10, but unfortunately a four car garage only holds four cars.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It sounds to me like the reason for the recent "hostility" among Gen I & II owners towards Gen III is because of the same "measuring up" idea. Many Gen II owners have started modifying their cars to beat SRT's. Maybe its because the Gen II and younger owners feel that they aren't "top of the food chain" any more and need to prove that they are, with the iminent arrival of the SRT.

Sorry if I rehashed any of your points overzealously.