'08 and '09 Vipers an amazingly good deal!

[Martin]

No, this isn't about crazy discounts, etc. I'm talking about MSRP prices. I had a chance to really look over an '08 the other day, and now that I've got an ACR on order, I'm educating myself about all the technical and mechanical aspects of the car. I'm impressed, to say the least.

What really amazes me is that, even without adjusting for inflation, the '08/'09 cars are SO MUCH better than my '97 GTS in so many ways, yet the cost didn't proportionally increase with the improvements. I'm amazed that Chrysler is able to sell them at MSRP - with all the improvements, I would have thought it would have been a LOT highter.

The new cars are roughly $20k higher than my '97 GTS was (MSRP comparison), but there is way more than $20k in the value of the improvements. For example, an engine that makes an extra 150 HP (that alone could be worth close to $20k to us GTS owners), a MUCH better transmission and differential, arguably better handling and suspension, HID headlights, very good anti-lock brakes, and overall better fit/finish. If you do take into account the inflation factor over the last ten years, the new cars have an MSRP close to '97 levels. And, if you take into consideration the current discount climate, these things are just unbelievable bargains.

I just can't believe the rest of the world hasn't caught on - I'd think these cars would be getting snapped up right and left. Of course, the economy *****, but that will change. You can bet that when money starts flowing again, these cars are going to reflect their true value.

 

[Newport Viper]

I like your positive attitude! Let's hope things turn around!

 

[Joseph Houss]

Don't forget that your '97 was bought with 1997 Dollars....

factor in Inflation .... and you are surely paying LESS than in 97!

 

[viperbilliam]

No, our incomes haven't kept up real well with the cost of living in general but Martin's point was that the Vipers (or new vehicles in general) inflation adjusted price is comparable to 1997. I agree we are getting so much more amenities/quality for the buck today. But many of us are carrying a lot more debt than we did then which is killing today's economy.

 

[FastZilla]

For the ~$100k ACR there is NO comparable vehicle (for the price). The next competitors are at least 2-3 times the price. I hate to say it (pride reasons) but the Viper ACR is the "bang for the buck" super car. Looking at the $75k present selling price for an `09 SRT - there is NO dispute that that is the deal of the century!

1997 was a booming economy and folks were out "bidding" each other on "dealer mark-ups" for cars. I'd venture to say that what $100k bought in 1997 would buy $150k+ today (everything is so devalued)...now 18 months from now....

 

[Joseph Houss]

Interesting discussion...

No, our INCOMES haven't kept up with the cost of living... but isn't inflation based on consumer prices? Autos? A loaf of bread? Etc?

Was Martin talking about adjusted price? Or dollar versus dollar?

 

[bluesrt]

the reason the 03 up cars are so amazing-the good o germans got thier paws in on it!

 

[99 R/T 10]

So with the depression that is happening now, how does that affect the value of the dollar? Is it back to 2002 levels?

 

[Martin]

the reason the 03 up cars are so amazing-the good o germans got thier paws in on it!

You're right - but I'm biased because my family immigrated here from Germany after WWII After the Daimler purchase I think we got the best of both worlds - reliable high-performance the Germans are famous for, and good 'ol inexpensive prices that the US cars are famous for. Just think if the Viper was built in Germany under the Porsche, BMW, or Mercedes name - it would be a $200K car... And people would happily be paying the price.

I definitely think that the 'regular' Vipers are the deal of the century right now, but the ACRs are close behind. Even without any of the discounts that the standard Viper is getting, that $13k 12b package gets you a LOT for your money.

Today's economy is going to get better, and there seems to be a narrow window of opportunity to get great deals on cars that would otherwise be marked up from MSRP. I remember back in '96 when I ordered my GTS - I must have visited a dozen dealers who wouldn't consider ordering the car for anything less than MSRP plus $5k. One guy wanted $120k for it and wouldn't budge because Dodge couldn't build any more due to supplier problems, and people were willing to pay that price. An ACR for $100k today is a bargain.

 

[Martin]

Interesting discussion...

No, our INCOMES haven't kept up with the cost of living... but isn't inflation based on consumer prices? Autos? A loaf of bread? Etc?

Was Martin talking about adjusted price? Or dollar versus dollar?

I think either way, the cars today are a great deal. Just think about how many people poured $20k+ into their cars in '97 to try and get them to where the cars are today. Adjusted for inflation, the cost today is just about what it was ten years ago - and the cars are miles ahead of where they were then. So it's like you're getting well over $20k of upgrades for free as far as I see it.

That's not to say I don't appreciate my GTS for what it is - it's a fantastic car that is brutal, awesome looking, and performs like a race car.

 

[Martin]

So with the depression that is happening now, how does that affect the value of the dollar? Is it back to 2002 levels?

We've never gone through any true deflation yet - so we're still at 2009 levels. Housing is about the only consumer item that has truly deflated back to 2002 levels, and that is also a great opportunity for those who can pull the trigger on a house purchase for the first time.

Thank god oil came back down - because that would have put us at an annualized 'real world' rate of inflation over 10% for the last year. If you think things are crappy now, just think how bad it would be if we were still paying $4 a gallon for gas...

 

[ulllose]

and the stock market is at 1997 levels

 

[Martin]

and the stock market is at 1997 levels

I know - ironically that's what got me to thinking about this topic. It was one of those contemplative moments where I started thinking "if I knew then what I know now, what would I buy?" For better or worse, I'm head-first into the market again. Also, I'm head-first into a new Viper Money is tight, and there aren't going to be any vacations, expensive dinners out, or other things that I like to do for a while - but it just makes sense to be a contrarian sometimes. I bailed out of the stock market at its peak because I just started getting that 'gut' feeling that something really bad was going to happen. The money that I didn't lose is what I'm using to buy the ACR... At least that's how I justify it... Also, at the peak, I sold all of my retirement account stocks and went into cash - now I'm diving back into ETFs fairly aggressively. There are a lot of perfectly good companies in the S&P500, for example, that are worth a heck of a lot more than their share price. I might lose some as I buy on the way down, but 20 years from now it will be worth it.

 

[adamlotus]

what i dont understand is year after year viper prices drop big time compared to z06 was getting over sticker for a few years and zr1 getting over sticker and that car is 117k,viper just doesnt get enough credit.

 

[Lawrenzo]

If you think things are crappy now, just think how bad it would be if we were still paying $4 a gallon for gas...

Just wait till Israel bombs Iran's nuclear facilities. Oil prices will come back up with a vengence

 

[Martin]

Just wait till Israel bombs Iran's nuclear facilities. Oil prices will come back up with a vengence

Probably not going to happen - that's the one thing that would get the US really pissed at Israel, especially now that Iran is refusing to cut output like OPEC has asked, and they are keeping crude oil prices down. There are two things that could really screw up the world at this point. One is an asteroid hitting the earth. The other is when all nations turn against Israel...

 

[RoadiJeff]

The new cars are roughly $20k higher than my '97 GTS was (MSRP comparison), but there is way more than $20k in the value of the improvements.

This isn't going to be a popular reply here on the SRT forum but here goes. Someone could pay $20k to a world-renowned tuner like Joe Donovan (Performance By Joe) here in St. Louis and he would turn their Gen II Viper into a beast that no stock Viper, regardless of year, could come close to.

Personally, the aesthetics of the Gen III and beyond just don't do anything for me, HID headlights or not. Too much resemblance to the Chevy bow-tie car.

 

[HISSSN1]

Not at all The Viper turns heads the Vette looks nothing like the gen III. for me I like all the Viper Gens it is just a great car that keeps getting better.

 

[Darbgnik]

This isn't going to be a popular reply here on the SRT forum but here goes. Someone could pay $20k to a world-renowned tuner like Joe Donovan (Performance By Joe) here in St. Louis and he would turn their Gen II Viper into a beast that no stock Viper, regardless of year, could come close to.

Personally, the aesthetics of the Gen III and beyond just don't do anything for me, HID headlights or not. Too much resemblance to the Chevy bow-tie car.

I think you're right, the Gen III looks a little like the C6 bowtie, not much Dodge could do about it though, as the Gen III came out as a 2003 model and the C6 came out as a 2005.

Impersonation is the highest form of flattery right?

 

[Martin]

I have to (unfortunately) agree to some extent. But, I originally fell in love with the looks of the GTS, and the Gen III was a fairly radical departure from that in my opinion. Where the GTS was smooth and curvy, the Gen III was angular with sharp lines. My first impression was that it did look a lot like something from GM to me, and I was a bit disappointed with the styling direction it went. But, the performance improvements were huge.

The '08 and '09 cars, though, have a styling character that I like a lot more - and I think it was simply restyling the hood that did it. Moving the vents forward and making them bigger and meaner looking made a giant improvement in my opinion. The ACR package really gives the car a look that rivals the GTS in impact.

 

[eucharistos]

The money that I didn't lose is what I'm using to buy the ACR... At least that's how I justify it...

i like your thinking

One is an asteroid hitting the earth. The other is when all nations turn against Israel...

i like your thinking




we need to fear the 2nd

The other is when all nations turn against Israel

more than the 1st

One is an asteroid hitting the earth.

....but we won't

 

[CarDude]

I have to (unfortunately) agree to some extent. But, I originally fell in love with the looks of the GTS, and the Gen III was a fairly radical departure from that in my opinion. Where the GTS was smooth and curvy, the Gen III was angular with sharp lines. My first impression was that it did look a lot like something from GM to me, and I was a bit disappointed with the styling direction it went. But, the performance improvements were huge.

The '08 and '09 cars, though, have a styling character that I like a lot more - and I think it was simply restyling the hood that did it. Moving the vents forward and making them bigger and meaner looking made a giant improvement in my opinion. The ACR package really gives the car a look that rivals the GTS in impact.

Sorry...no comparison. SRT ACR is greater then GTS ACR. Here is my old 2001 ACR versus my 2008 ACR...

 

[REDBLACK]

Sorry...no comparison. SRT ACR is greater then GTS ACR. Here is my old 2001 ACR versus my 2008 ACR...

A more appropriate comparison would be to a GTSR with splitter, canards and wing giving a more aggressive race car appearance. I'll take the GEN II GTSR.

 

[REDBLACK]

We've never gone through any true deflation yet - so we're still at 2009 levels. Housing is about the only consumer item that has truly deflated back to 2002 levels, and that is also a great opportunity for those who can pull the trigger on a house purchase for the first time.

Thank god oil came back down - because that would have put us at an annualized 'real world' rate of inflation over 10% for the last year. If you think things are crappy now, just think how bad it would be if we were still paying $4 a gallon for gas...

You're going to see major deflation and the greatest DEPRESSION ever going forward. If you want to buy a house today be prepared to suffer a 30% - 40% decline in value. Your economic recovery will start around 2015 if we're lucky. As far as plowing long into the stock market here that is a very bad idea. I'd wait for the S&P to hit 150.

 

[DRBSRT]

Sorry...no comparison. SRT ACR is greater then GTS ACR. Here is my old 2001 ACR versus my 2008 ACR...

I love your Orange ACR, especially with the black stripes. Never realized how much wider the stripes were on the GTS versus the SRT.

 

[Martin]

You're going to see major deflation and the greatest DEPRESSION ever going forward. If you want to buy a house today be prepared to suffer a 30% - 40% decline in value. Your economic recovery will start around 2015 if we're lucky. As far as plowing long into the stock market here that is a very bad idea. I'd wait for the S&P to hit 150.

Thanks for the input. Twenty years from now, let's revisit and see who's happier.

 

[RavenFan_94]

You're going to see major deflation and the greatest DEPRESSION ever going forward. If you want to buy a house today be prepared to suffer a 30% - 40% decline in value. Your economic recovery will start around 2015 if we're lucky. As far as plowing long into the stock market here that is a very bad idea. I'd wait for the S&P to hit 150.

S&P 150? Are you buying those contracts?

 

[CarDude]

I love your Orange ACR, especially with the black stripes. Never realized how much wider the stripes were on the GTS versus the SRT.

No the stripes on the 08-09s is tapered due to the new hood.

Here's a very nice 2006...courtesy of Fergy in the Viper Gallery

versus my 2008

 

[WANTED]

you're Going To See Major Deflation And The Greatest Depression Ever Going Forward. If You Want To Buy A House Today Be Prepared To Suffer A 30% - 40% Decline In Value. Your Economic Recovery Will Start Around 2015 If We're Lucky. As Far As Plowing Long Into The Stock Market Here That Is A Very Bad Idea. I'd Wait For The S&p To Hit 150.

Are You Obama ?

 

[cheryl mccally]

the reason the 03 up cars are so amazing-the good o germans got thier paws in on it!

That's exactly right! When Daimler started with Chrysler, the Viper got soooo much better.