2014 C&D VIR Lightning Lap Results...Viper TA delivers!
- Thread starter Bruce H.
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Rapid Transit
Enthusiast
Porsche 918 is the fastest, no surprise there.
The porky GT-R beats the SRT-TA, though barely, is kinda surprising.
The Z/28 is right there, despite it being heavy, and not much tech (like the GT-R has), very surprising.
My question is in regards to the TA and Z/28: Viper is lighter, much more powerful, as evidenced by the peak speed, 152 vs. 145. Why does it barely beat the Camaro? The MPH is also very similar. Does it mean that the TA accelerates down the straight very fast (152 mph vs. 145 mph), but doesn't/can't maintain that gap over the Camaro? Is that why the overall avg mph is close between the 2 cars (86.9 vs. 86.4)?
Thanks,
The porky GT-R beats the SRT-TA, though barely, is kinda surprising.
The Z/28 is right there, despite it being heavy, and not much tech (like the GT-R has), very surprising.
My question is in regards to the TA and Z/28: Viper is lighter, much more powerful, as evidenced by the peak speed, 152 vs. 145. Why does it barely beat the Camaro? The MPH is also very similar. Does it mean that the TA accelerates down the straight very fast (152 mph vs. 145 mph), but doesn't/can't maintain that gap over the Camaro? Is that why the overall avg mph is close between the 2 cars (86.9 vs. 86.4)?
Thanks,
RSNAKE
Viper Owner
I think tires are a big part of the reason. Trofeo R tires on the Camaro vs Corsas on the TA. Any review of the Camaro states how sticky the tires are. Throw the Trofeos on the Viper (if they ever get around to making them in Viper sizes) and I expect the TA time would improve by close to 2 seconds per lap with no other changes.
All fair as those are stock tires on the Camaro and Corsas are stock on the TA. Just trying to state my opinion as to how they are as close as they are.
4 305mm Trofeo R's with a car built nearly 100% for track use.
I suspect the GTR nismo will be a very special model as well-- light and carbon fiber, R compound tires and about $170,000 as tested (base price plus options). nevertheless very impressive for a heavy 6 cylinder car
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TrackAire
Enthusiast
That's assuming the Nismo doesn't come back next year with stickier tires, less weight, more HP and bigger aero......
The TA needs stickier tires now....it has the chassis and power to handle it. I'd bet the 2014 TA would be at least 1 second per lap faster with Trofeos.
Hoodoo Man
Viper Owner
Anyone recall the lightning lap time for the 2010 ACR?
Larry
Larry
SnakeBitten
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It was 2:48 if memory serves. I am not surprised the Nismo beat the TA but I was surprised the Camaro was so close to both the GTR and TA even with its Trofeo R's on a track like VIR. On a tighter shorter track it would probably be right there with both of them. The TA did well considering the tires its shod with and the competition it faced. The TA 2.0 should be right there or faster than the 2010 ACR time of 2:48. Now an ACR G5 would really put the hurt on the NISMO and probably be a sec or two off the Porsche 918 time...Thanks for sharing.
EDIT: I have to say I am shocked at the Stingrays time of only 2:53....That is right there with some GTR, Scuderia, Z06 times around VIR. Impressive.
Oh and I guess we can put the Turbo S vs TA track debate to bed
EDIT 2: A note about the NISMO it seems it is not like the ACR in that it doesnt have the setup like the NISMO that did the Ring in 7:08.xx according to this blurb:
"If you look closely at one of the four GT-R Nismos Nissan used for its attack on the Nurburgring lap record, you'll notice some differences versus the production cars. First, there's the considerably larger rear wing. But there are some other, much more subtle aero tweaks that Nissan is claiming as "track options." Some of these looked, and felt, literally like taped-on pieces of plastic, such as the small air foil flap that runs the length of the hood just below the windshield. The cars also used "racing-style" suspension (meaning not the three-mode setup on the production cars) tuned specifically for the Nurburgring.
We're not saying these "track options" won't ever see a dealer list, but we'll believe it when we actually see them on a production car."
So the NISMO is not 7:08 capable as I figured since the TA was right on its butt and the old ACR is still faster.
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klamathpro
Viper Owner
It is if you opt for the N Attack package. That's the Nurburgring edition, closer to $170k. The Base model Nismo in the lightning lap costs $150k. There's no denying the Nismo is fast, even a tick faster than the TA. It's 3800+ lbs and still beat everyone. The TA 2.0 will change that though.
SnakeBitten
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I see....I did not realize there were two packages...Very nice. If the slower one took out the TA then I dont want to know what the N package will do to it lol. I dont think the TA 2.0 will handle the N package either so I think that distinction will have to go to hopefully a G5 ACR. It is exciting to see these levels of cars coming out nowadays from any mfg. I love it...
Nine Ball
Enthusiast
You guys don't discount the Z/28 so easily. It isn't just the tires and brakes, although both are at the top of the heap in terms of parts quality. The car chassis itself also handles excellent. GM put a lot of work into developing the Camaro's that can handle, their Chief Engineer (Mark Stielow) is a certified car nut racing ******. I own a 2014 1LE Camaro SS, as well as the Gen 5 Viper. I've tracked both cars on the same day, and the Camaro (even on lesser 285 wide Goodyear F1's) could maintain the same corner speeds as my Viper did. Where my Camaro was lacking, was exit acceleration, being that it is just the 426hp LS3. The Z/28 addresses that issue, and also adds braking capacity. If you haven't driven a 1LE Camaro ($31K MSRP, out the door) at the track, you are missing out on the best bang for the buck I've found. I've even passed a few Vipers (including ACR's) in my 100% stock Camaro. Yes, the ACR should kick the crap out of the 1LE, but driving ability means more than the car you drive, sometimes. They handle very well.
Tony
Tony
TrackAire
Enthusiast
It was 2:48 if memory serves. I am not surprised the Nismo beat the TA but I was surprised the Camaro was so close to both the GTR and TA even with its Trofeo R's on a track like VIR. On a tighter shorter track it would probably be right there with both of them. The TA did well considering the tires its shod with and the competition it faced. The TA 2.0 should be right there or faster than the 2010 ACR time of 2:48. Now an ACR G5 would really put the hurt on the NISMO and probably be a sec or two off the Porsche 918 time...Thanks for sharing.
EDIT: I have to say I am shocked at the Stingrays time of only 2:53....That is right there with some GTR, Scuderia, Z06 times around VIR. Impressive.
Oh and I guess we can put the Turbo S vs TA track debate to bed
EDIT 2: A note about the NISMO it seems it is not like the ACR in that it doesnt have the setup like the NISMO that did the Ring in 7:08.xx according to this blurb:
"If you look closely at one of the four GT-R Nismos Nissan used for its attack on the Nurburgring lap record, you'll notice some differences versus the production cars. First, there's the considerably larger rear wing. But there are some other, much more subtle aero tweaks that Nissan is claiming as "track options." Some of these looked, and felt, literally like taped-on pieces of plastic, such as the small air foil flap that runs the length of the hood just below the windshield. The cars also used "racing-style" suspension (meaning not the three-mode setup on the production cars) tuned specifically for the Nurburgring.
We're not saying these "track options" won't ever see a dealer list, but we'll believe it when we actually see them on a production car."
So the NISMO is not 7:08 capable as I figured since the TA was right on its butt and the old ACR is still faster.
It is my understanding that the 7:08 GT-R run was a pre-production vehicle that may have had it's computer tweaked even higher than what a production version would have for sale in the USA. Add on the other tweaks listed above (Gurney flap on the back edge of the hood?.....like that will ever be a factory option, lol) The flap can be seen on the record attempt car in this months issue of EVO magazine.
The reality is the 7:08 run got a lot of press but it is not a production vehicle record....sorry Nissan. IIRC, it even had full on race Ohlins instead of the Nismo shocks it usually comes with.
But, from a marketing point they're genius....here we are discussing a Ring time of 7:08 that isn't even valid. Chrysler needs to hire the marketing company that is working for Nissan.
klamathpro
Viper Owner
The computer tweak was for the actual full 600HP. Previously the Nismo was to be 591hp. All the stuff you mentioned is included in the N Attack package, even the gurney flap. The car is real and the N Attack package includes everything that was at the Nurburgring, and then some. Remember, that car only has inferior Dunlop SP Sport Maxx GT 600. Be glad they didn't use PSC 's or Trofeo's. A standard GT-R did the Ring in 7:18 on street tires, so this Nismo is very real. I love the Viper but I give respect to other cars that earned it.
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/03/17/nissan-releases-gtr-nismo-n-attack-package-workout-video-fuj/
"The pack makes a variety of changes to make the Nismo GT-R a better handling car. The suspension and brakes are overhauled with Öhlins adjustable dampers, new stabilizer bar and new front brake pads. As you can see the outside is quite different with carbon fiber components replacing the front fenders and hood gurney, plus an adjustable carbon fiber rear wing with angle adjustments and two height settings. The interior gets a carbon fiber rear bulkhead to cut weight as well."
http://www.gtrlife.com/_/nissan-new/nissan-launches-gt-r-nismo-n-attack-package-r134
Here's N Attack package:
Engine & Powertrain
*New intercooler/intake piping in carbon and aluminum
*Front LSD
*Rear Carbon Plate LSD
*Engine Control Module and Transmission Control Module
*Optional: NISMO Titanium Exhaust
Suspension & Brakes
*Ohlins 4-way shocks and relaxed spring rate springs
*Adjustable roll bars
*Front brake pads
Exterior
*Carbon composite front fenders with aerodynamic extensions
*Carbon composite hood with gurney flap
*Carbon composite front lower spoiler add on lip
*Carbon composite rear wing with two point height adjustment and 12 point angle adjustment
Interior
*Recaro full carbon composite bucket seats
*SpecV rear seat finishing trim
*Carbon composite rear bulkhead chassis reinforcement
TrackAire
Enthusiast
I respectfully disagree with the notion that this is a production vehicle. If I'm understanding how you buy a N-Attack, you first need to buy a GTR Nismo and then order all of the above parts from the Nissan performance catalog to install on the Nismo. To me, this is not a production vehicle....no different than buying a Viper and then buying a set of headers from MOPAR, installing them and calling it production.
If I can't walk into a USA Nissan dealer and buy the N-Attack off the floor with full warranty, then that is not production in my eyes. Maybe Nissan would warranty the vehicle in full N-Attack mode if the parts are installed by an authorized dealer (would be an awesome deal in my eyes).
Don't get me wrong, I love the GTR and what it can do. But the 7:08 run was done with a vehicle that you could not buy then or maybe even now (I don't know if the N-Attack is on the USA market yet). If I can't buy it as a street legal, emissions compliant full warranty vehicle in the USA, then it does not count as a production vehicle valid time for the Ring runs.
I would love to see more manufacturers take runs at the Ring. There is a reason the P1 and LaFerrari do not have a Ring time posted. A lot of cars are very fast....but sometimes bad things show up before the 12 miles are over. A lot of these super cars are not what they are perceived to be.
klamathpro
Viper Owner
Wrong again. For $180+k (don't know final price) you order it exactly like the one that did the Ring, with a full warranty and emissions legal just like the one that did the Ring. The only option to the N-Attack is the titanium exhaust. There's a lot of misinformation out there. The N-Attack can be factory ordered, or dealer installed for those who already own a Nismo.
From Nissan: "This package will now be offered as a FACTORY LINE product and Nismo will be accepting orders starting from July 23rd"
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SnakeBitten
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Outstanding. Nissan got deadly serious by offering the N package factory built. If you are a car guy you just have to love this. Dodge will need an ACR to handle the N package period. One can only hope for a G5 ACR in the near future.
On another note I look forward to seeing how Chevy's Z06 with the Z07 package stacks up to the NISMO GTR tested by C&D above and the TA 2.0. That would be such a great comparison test. The N package Nismo is in another league however, I would love to see the N package put down a lap on VIR just to get an idea of how much faster it is than the above cars.
Perhaps it is a silly question but is the N attack package streetable? It looks like it would have a few issues driving around town. If it is not streetable for every day use like the Viper and the upcoming other car, is it fair to put them in the same category?
Boxer12
Enthusiast
The ACR will rule them all but the Hyperexotics...look at the times Keatong put down at VIR with his 450 HP GTR-3, if you want an idea what aero, brakes less wt and tires can do! Ok, not a fair comparison outright but just as a glimpse of what's possible and the gap btwn a 'race prepped' car trim (N-Attack, Z/28) and street car trim. The TA is a very modest 'track oriented' trim package IMO.
Boxer12
Enthusiast
The ACR will rule them all but the Hyperexotics...look at the times Keatong put down at VIR with his 450 HP GTR-3, if you want an idea what aero, brakes less wt and tires can do! Ok, not a fair comparison outright but just as a glimpse of what's possible and the gap btwn a 'race prepped' car trim (N-Attack, Z/28) and street car trim. The TA is a very modest 'track oriented' trim package IMO. Even the G4 ACR is modest by today's standards with the suspension and big carbon brake packages out there. Everyone who competes with one does upgrades like mine. I think the G5 has more potential in the aero department too ala the GTR-3.
I have to agree.
If it doesn't come from the factory with all of the goodies installed or have a manufacturer warranty, it's not a "production car."
For McLaren and Ferrari, I think they don't want to risk coming off 2nd or 3rd best in this battle between million dollar hybrid hypercars.
No doubt the press would be all over it....and there would some angry phone calls from disappointed owners.
klamathpro
Viper Owner
But it does!
No better time to be a car fanatic than now. Manufacturers are doing things on production cars we only dreamed of 10 years ago. N-Attack is a full production car. ACR is a full production car. Z07 package is a full production car. These are street legal factory track cars.
Wait, what?
Don't say that on this forum or you risk screamin' & tears of the experts....
