ACR Radiator Hose Collapse Video....

Bobpantax

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Why is everyone assuming that SRT was/is not aware of the hose behavior being decribed? Unless someone is aware of a failure caused by this phenomenon, isn't it premature to assume that it is a negative phenomenon? As someone posted above, it is occuring on the suction side. So, assuming the thermostat is not comletely open and assuming a spring insert, what does that have to do with increasing water flow? The spring will keep the hose completely open but it should not effect the amount of water flowing.

I also did a Google search on this issue and it is quite frequently discussed in the context of other vehicles and appears to have multiple possible causes.

I think the smart thing to do is for the Moderators to specifically request that the SRT Engineers respond to this issue. Herb has not yet posted the last time I checked.
 

Viper X

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FYI,

Jon B @ Parts Rack has an upper radiator hose supplier.

Dan
 

SweetRed04

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I totally agree with the operating temp statement. (My '04 has a 17 psi pressure cap).

I would bet that the collapsing upper hose cars have a leaking high pressure radiator cap (or a leak somewhere else in the system) or are not warmed up when run at high speed.




Important Note:

If you ask those in the know at SRT, you will find that this event has been observed, and only occurs when the T-stat is CLOSED or partially open. When the engine is at operatimg temp, there is plenty of pressure to keep the hose from deforming.

Fikse posted this same question in GRAIL TRAIL for yet another confirmation from the engineering experts. Watch There......

http://forums.viperclub.org/grail-t...houghts-acr-radiator-hose-collapse-video.html

..........and, what Doug said.....
 

Vic

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Evidently, when the thermostat is closed, there is suction on the lower side of the radiator from the water pump trying to pull fluid out of the radiator, AND the block. The suction pulls from the water pump, (through the lower hose with the typical spring that lower hoses usually have), to the lower side of the radiator, through the radiator, and then suction is felt at the top hose, then the top hose collpases. The t-stat is basically at the end of the top hose, and since its closed, the suction has no where to draw from except the block, so the top hose ***** in. This probably does not occur very often in normal operating conditions. The thermostat is only closed during initial warmup, and never closes again unless there is greater extraction of BTUs from the engine than needed, causing the engine to cool below designed operating temperature. When this happens, only at higher rpm's in cool conditions, the car is out on the road, and no body notices the top hose collapsing! I'll bet this happens on a lot of cars, but isnt seen unless a car is reving high on the dyno, with forced air being blown into the radiator, causing the cooling system to extrat more BTU's than the engine is making, and that under high rpm's, when the water pump is turning very fast, making a lot of vaccum. That situation is artificially created, and does not occur like that in actual use, even under heavy loads and high rpm's, (think t stat open from the BTUs being created). The forced air flow is the abnormal condition, and doesnt represent true driiving conditions. But there could be that odd time when you are reving at redline in a blizzard, there is extreme water pump suction, then the t-stat might close, and the hose could **** in....But when are you ever reving near redline under extremely cool conditions? And how long would you be spending at or near redline, generating all that high suction? Not likely very long. But it could happen, if all the conditions are right.

And if the hose collpases, so what? Its not like water flow to the radiator is needed at that time. With the T-stat closed, there isnt any water flowing through the top hose anyway, so the fact that it collpases under suction isnt important. The argument that the flex is wearing the hose out is weakly speculative, and the issue doesnt arise to recall status. When the t stat is open, there is pressure in the top hose, it will be open, it will flow coolant, thats all you really need to worry about. Its ability to withstand pressure is the issue, not what it does under suction, thats a tangent. Efforts spent to keep it from collapsing are fruitless and misguided.

How many friends did I make today? :)
 
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Grailkeeper

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Had my car on the dyno again at the South Florida Dyno day, took this video showing the radiator hose collapsing under load....

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYfmcfd_Ec0[/media]

Anyone locate a hose upgrade for this?

FikseGTS......

Wow, that's something!! Not sure what it means but obviously the flow is retricted and that's not good. I'll show this to the engine guys and see what they say.....stay tuned.......GK
 

SRT Engineers

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Vic summed it up pretty well. The only time the upper radiator hose will collapse is when the thermostat is closed (or to some extent partially closed). The system pressure up to that point including the radiator will be drawn down by the water pump inlet and the hose can collapse as some of you have noted. When the thermostat opens and the system starts flowing there will be plenty of pressure to keep the hose fully "inflated". We have not experienced any durability issues with the hose over time. This phenomenon is really nothing new, it's just that with more and more use of chassis dynos these days people probably notice it more often. The Gen IV Viper cooling system has a very high flowrate (more so than previous versions) so the hoses are more susceptible to this issue than say an older Viper, Charger or Neon. Make sure the engine is fully up to operating condition when running on the dyno - which should be done anyway if you hope to get any kind of repeatability with the results and that is a whole subject all by itself!
 
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FikseGTS

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thanks for the response, the car was fully warmed up, the video was taken during the 2nd dyno pull, which was done back to back.....
 

fireball

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I love this forum!

The real guys telling the real truth.

Thanks for the info!

Greg
 

Viper X

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Guys,

I installed a spring in my upper radiator hose some time ago after hearing of this issue.

FYI, I've got over 8,000 miles on my 09 ACR now and the hose is beginning to show the impressions of the spring, which is a slightly smaller diameter than the hose.

I don't run the car hard when it's cold, so what do you think is making the impressions of the spring on my upper radiator hose?

My guess is that the hose is collapsing, as shown above.

We've also seen this happen on the dyno when the engine is fully warmed up.

Dan
 

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