Alignment spec needed

[Black Moon]

I'm looking for alignment specs for a Gen 3. I have the stock but some people are running a more aggressive street/track alignment. I got one from a 'Vendor' a couple of years ago but can't find it.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Dom426h]

Few Q's for you moon:
1. What type of driving do you do? % hwy / % roads with turns
2. trackdays per year?
3. How many miles do you drive per year?
4. How often do you replace your tires currently?
5. How often would you be ok with replacing tires if they didn't last as long ?

Adding camber is the main thing to making a car go around turns faster. You don't want to go too much in the front though cause tire life will suffer, and too much in the rear can limit straight line traction.

I run 1.7 camber front, 1.0 rear.
Handles great on twisty backroads & the track but is mild enough to log a lot of hwy miles with only having to replace my tires every 2-3years.
Also, you'll want a tad of toe-in front to keep her tracking straight,
and a tad of toe-in rear to keep her tame while exiting corners on the throttle. Follow the factory setting for Toe & Caster.

 

[Black Moon]

I don't drive it much but it's all hard and twisty roads here.

No track days

Maybe 500 miles per year

I just put new PSS's on today. They still had good tread but were 6 years old.

That wouldn't bother me.

Are you talking negative camber?

Thanks

Few Q's for you moon:
1. What type of driving do you do? % hwy / % roads with turns
2. trackdays per year?
3. How many miles do you drive per year?
4. How often do you replace your tires currently?
5. How often would you be ok with replacing tires if they didn't last as long ?

Adding camber is the main thing to making a car go around turns faster. You don't want to go too much in the front though cause tire life will suffer, and too much in the rear can limit straight line traction.

I run 1.7 camber front, 1.0 rear.
Handles great on twisty backroads & the track but is mild enough to log a lot of hwy miles with only having to replace my tires every 2-3years.
Also, you'll want a tad of toe-in front to keep her tracking straight,
and a tad of toe-in rear to keep her tame while exiting corners on the throttle. Follow the factory setting for Toe & Caster.

 

[Dom426h]

I don't drive it much but it's all hard and twisty roads here.

No track days

Maybe 500 miles per year

Great. Well not really...LOL Drive more!!! but with low miles and twisty roads you can run a pretty aggressive alignment without worrying about tirewear.

I just put new PSS's on today. They still had good tread but were 6 years old.

Great. Fresh rubber paired with a good alignment is Key to pulling G's in the corners.

Are you talking negative camber?

Yes, anytime someone talks about camber they are talking negative. If they are not than something is wrong or someone is confused.


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What type of suspension are you running? shocks/springs/caps? Any plans to switch it up?

 

[Black Moon]

Running KW coilovers. Car is lowered some. I just dropped a bit more tonight. Alignment tomorrow.

So try -1.7 front and -1 degree rear and leave toe and caster alone.

 

[Allan]

uh...........-1.7 is a lot for a street car.
I'm at -2.5 front and -1.7 rear. But mine is a dedicated track car now.

If I were to set up for an aggressive street/ mountain road alignment, I would go with something more like -1.2 front, -.5 rear.
Caster around 5.5, front toe-in 1/16", rear toe-in 1/8".

This will give you more tire life, and still handle better than stock settings.

............I have tried several settings as this crap is kinda 'trial and error' stuff.
Hope this advice helps you.

 

[Dom426h]

uh...........-1.7 is a lot for a street car.

I would go with something more like -1.2 front, -.5 rear..

I disagree with that weak alignment suggestion.
Stock spec calls for 0.20-0.65 rear...

For his app I would go no lower than 1.5 F / 0.8 R, but think 1.5-1.7/1.0 would be better. Especially considering that he drives less than 1000miles per year and the tires will last more than a few years with pretty much anything he throws at it short of continuous drifting.

Caster around 5.5, front toe-in 1/16", rear toe-in 1/8".

............I have tried several settings as this crap is kinda 'trial and error' stuff.

Same here. Its fun. Especially when you drive hard and can appreciate the slight differences.
I've replaced my upper a-arm shims with ones half as thick allowing me to remove them to go up 0.5 degrees to 2.2, or put the stock shims in to go down to 1.2
At 2.2 on the street I noticed accelerated tire wear.
At 1.7 front, my rears go bald just about the same time that the inside edge of the fronts show their cords.(and that's with a lot of hwy driving)

 

[Allan]

I agree the more negative makes the car 'feel better',
.....just concerned about tire wear issues on a street driven only car.

but if he doesn't drive it that much anyways, the tires are dry rotting as the car sits.


It's like exhaust,.....How loud is too loud for the street?


But then again, these are Vipers. So 'over the top' is just about right.

 

[Black Moon]

Thanks guys. Now I'll see if the tech has the knowledge to tweak the alignment away from factory.

 

[Allan]

Good luck with the car. Please post your impressions of how the car is transformed into something better than you thought it could be, or if you even notice a difference. (that'll depend on how much they change things)

 

[Allan]

I disagree with that weak alignment suggestion.
Stock spec calls for 0.20-0.65 rear...

For his app I would go no lower than 1.5 F / 0.8 R, but think 1.5-1.7/1.0 would be better. Especially considering that he drives less than 1000miles per year and the tires will last more than a few years with pretty much anything he throws at it short of continuous drifting.







Same here. Its fun. Especially when you drive hard and can appreciate the slight differences.
I've replaced my upper a-arm shims with ones half as thick allowing me to remove them to go up 0.5 degrees to 2.2, or put the stock shims in to go down to 1.2
At 2.2 on the street I noticed accelerated tire wear.
At 1.7 front, my rears go bald just about the same time that the inside edge of the fronts show their cords.(and that's with a lot of hwy driving)

I still have to flip my tires (both front and rear) at half life (2 days) due to excessive wear on the outside shoulders.
This isn't that big a deal for me, as I have my own tire machine and balancer.
More negative camber than I already have will start to affect braking performance, so I just flip the tires.
More street driving could help even things out, but would destroy my paint faster than is already happening. -I'm on Hoosier R6's, and they sand blast the car when on the street.

 

[AZTVR]

I've replaced my upper a-arm shims with ones half as thick allowing me to remove them to go up 0.5 degrees to 2.2, or put the stock shims in to go down to 1.2

Sounds like the Gen 3 has the "sport" shims like the Gen 2 has? The OP should take note of that, to remind his alignment tech. If the tech does have to remove them to get the camber you want, make sure you keep them somewhere that you can find them in the future.

_________________________________________________
Jim – ‘02 GTS ACR gray/silver -- sold – ( enthusiastic custodian for 8 years )

 

[Black Moon]

Shims?? On a Gen 3?

The tech ran out of adjustment at 1.4 in order to keep caster I wanted. Have stripped concentric bolt in rear that needs to be replaced. Dealer doesn't have of course. Almost $65 for bolt, nut and washer. Ridiculous!

 

[Getnlwr]

Guys, Here's a odd question, If I am still running RunCrap's Is there any difference in the alignment for what is needed? I can't quite afford to replace them YET. I'll be on them for probably this summer and perhaps part of next summer. Dealer put wrong tires on my Gen 4 a week before I bought it.

 

[Black Moon]

Oh now what's $1,500 when you own a Viper. LOL I figure my tires cost me about $1 per mile because I'll only have 1500-2000 miles on them when they will need replacing due to age. I've got a stack of PS2's in my garage with plenty of tread but are 5-6 years old.

 

[Allan]

Guys, Here's a odd question, If I am still running RunCrap's Is there any difference in the alignment for what is needed? I can't quite afford to replace them YET. I'll be on them for probably this summer and perhaps part of next summer. Dealer put wrong tires on my Gen 4 a week before I bought it.

Alignment specs to suit personal preference, driving conditions and use of the car.
Any street tires (run-flats or not) aren't going to require any special alignment, but if you have an aggressive set up, tire life will suffer.

Hoosier recommends something crazy like -3 camber to get the best results on a road course.
I haven't seen any manufacturer recommendations for any street tires.

 

[Allan]

Oh now what's $1,500 when you own a Viper. LOL I figure my tires cost me about $1 per mile because I'll only have 1500-2000 miles on them when they will need replacing due to age. I've got a stack of PS2's in my garage with plenty of tread but are 5-6 years old.

Yes. This as a hobby is way dumb.
I am getting 4 days out of front tires, 8 days out of rears. That is due to diligent flipping, and rotating mid-day at the track.
Some Viper guys only get 1 day out of a set.

The dollar cost of tracking the car is stupid.
The life experience and intensity.............priceless.

 

[Getnlwr]

After I get my seats back together I'll be lowering it and sending out for alignment. Thank's for the info guys.

 

[Black Moon]

Lowered and aligned. Car seems 'darty' when changing lanes or turning. More positive turning.

The new PSS tires really don't impress me that much. I'm still getting wheel spin in 2nd and 3rd strait line acceleration. The ride is also rougher than the PS2's. If I had to do it again I would have stuck with my old PS2's or purchased new ones.

 

[Allan]

Wow. You are the first guy to not love the Super Sports.

The Nitto Invo doesn't get the rave here like the PSS, but even the 1/4 mile guys say they hook-up good.
You may consider them for your next set.
Invo's are smooth, quiet, great for the highway/street.........and they are way lower priced as well.

They just aren't that great on a roadcourse.

 

[Schulmann]

I was running -1,7 in the front and -0,9 in the rear on PS2, they lasted 15000mi /3years.
A lot of road and many track days.

However the -1,7 in the front was a bit too much. The front tire could have lasted a bit longer, but I am running out of rubber in the inner side.
I will reduce the camber to -1,2FR -0,80 Rear

 

[Stuntman]

Schulmann - about how many track days did you put on in those 3 years? Were you rolling over on the outsides of either the deints or rears? What's your toe? I was considering -1.5 front, -0.9 rear.