An open forum for Roe Supercharged Viper owners/installers

[Sean Roe]

.......
Has anyone experienced any of the following?
1) On cold starts, car idles low for 10-15 seconds before idling normally.
2) More idle hang than before SC.....

......Yes we have been experiencing both. One problem that has us a little concerned is that every now and then when taking off from a light using little throttle the car will lunge forward hard, but then will drive normal. This only happens on rare occasions, but the lunge is so quick and hard you can hear the tires briefly spin. ........

[/QUOTE]

Do either of you guys have the 70 mm throttle bodies? (I'm thinking about throttle position sensors and how much air is let in with those big butterflys so quickly if you have them). Have you boosted the factory ground? And finally, have we updated your VEC2 systems?

Regarding idle and idle hang, can't help you too much there. We don't alter any PCM inputs that affect idle and don't attempt to alter idle RPM. It seems like this is very common among many Vipers (stock or otherwise) these days.

Regards,
Sean

 

[Larry Macedo]

How many people are utilizing the 70mm Throttle Bodies and have idle hang symptoms?

 

[varanus]

Larry, I have idle hang after full throttle applications & have the 70's

BTW can you modify a trap door for me. I put in the walbro 255 and now can't pick up the last few gallons in the tank. At 10mpg that is not good

 

[RedGTS]

I also have 70's and some idle hang, but I did have a little idle hang b/f the s/c. Mine is still fairly mild--after letting off the throttle it will hang up around 1,300-1,500 for 5-10 seconds and then settle down to normal.

 

[varanus]

one thing about the idle hang-mine is between 1500 to 2200 rpm. If you are driving fast and let off the gas to slow for turns the car keeps pulling unless you apply the brakes. Since there is a lot of torque starting at 2000 rpm if you are driving on the edge the car pulling hard at that rpm when you expect to be slowing down could get you in bit of a quandry.

 

[1TONY1]

Isn't the idle supposed to stay higher while still rolling ? I know some late 80's chrysler products had a sensor that would keep it high......when the sensor went bad it would die. Coming to a stop my idle will stay at 1200 to 1500 until the car stops rolling then settle down. 70mm throttle bodies here but I can deal with it at the moment. Dang it...what was the name of the sensor (1986 GLH)

 

[axe]

Do either of you guys have the 70 mm throttle bodies? (I'm thinking about throttle position sensors and how much air is let in with those big butterflys so quickly if you have them). Have you boosted the factory ground? And finally, have we updated your VEC2 systems?

Regarding idle and idle hang, can't help you too much there. We don't alter any PCM inputs that affect idle and don't attempt to alter idle RPM. It seems like this is very common among many Vipers (stock or otherwise) these days.

Regards,
Sean

My 96 GTS has stock throttle bodies. Factory ground is boosted and VEC2 has been updated. Car has about 600 miles on it with the SC. Started experiencing the low idle at cold start after the VEC2 update though that might not be the cause. Unplugged the PCM and the low idle and idle hang went away for a while, but after driving about 60 miles, it came back.

On heavy load at lower rpms (under 2000) in 5th and 6th gear, there is some pinging on 91 octane gas with the 9D card. I mixed in some 100 octane gas to see if that would eliminate it but haven't had a chance to drive it yet.

Early on, the car had an occasional misfire in #8 which turned out to be a loose connector which Varanus heard or actually didn't hear with his stethoscope. Also had the occasional hiccup which was resolved by the VEC2 update. These were the only issues I experienced on my car.

 

[Sean Roe]

Hi Axe,
Ok, thanks.
I didn't know you by your user name, but know who you are now.
Drop me an e-mail if we need to pull out some timing at boost under 2,000 rpm on your 91 octane card.
Regards,
Sean

 

[1TONY1]

Hic----cup, I have not had it since the updated vec2 software.

 

[SUN RA KAT]

I recouped at least 60 missing horsepower.

Multiple cylinder misfire + multiple fouled spark plugs = 58 rwHP for one dead cylinder or 116 rwHP for 2 dead cylinders.

I have 70 mm throttle bodies and never had any problem whatsoever with them, except for the first few times I was running the the 1996 PCM Sean had lent me and after the first few times it went away. Never had any problems with the stock 2002 PCM. My Viper seems to work noticably better with the original 2002 PCM so I'm sending Sean's PCM back to him (along with diagnostic instruments that he lent me).

I drove my Viper again after dinner and it still runs better than it ever had & it still scared me. It seemed the fuel injector connection issue only got bad when I got the VEC2.1 - it was only a minor problem with the earlier VEC2.

 

[fuelman]

Ditto here, no hiccup after the revised Vec2 and the grounds. I used to get the throttle hang before the supercharger. I still have the stock TBs, but I don't get the throttle hang now. I know when we installed the super charger Macedo checked and double checked the throttle linkage and brackets.

 

[VIPR GTS]

So far my motor is running fine with the Vec2.1 with no miss and good steady pulling, but idle hang has been part of my Viper driving since day one, and to this day still is, though occurances are sort of rare. I am very pleased with the SC and Seans help when problems were encountered. Gas mileage, do people really check that on these cars?

 

[onerareviper]

About a two years ago my car had that 'idle hang' issue. Turns out my front left O2 sensor was bad (car was running rich due to another issue - not sure if that ruined the O2). I fixed the rich condition, but 'idle hang' was still an issue. Then swapped out the front left O2 sensor for new. Problem solved.

Could a car that is running really rich eventually effect the front O2 sensors? I wonder if some Roe cars aren't running too rich, and eventually effecting the front O2 sensors - if that's possible....

Just a guess.......

 

[RockyTop]

Are the injector connection issues solely related to the SC and fueling/injector modifications or are these issues applicable to us normally-aspirated, stock-injectored folk too ?

 

[varanus]

Isn't the idle supposed to stay higher while still rolling ? I know some late 80's chrysler products had a sensor that would keep it high......when the sensor went bad it would die. Coming to a stop my idle will stay at 1200 to 1500 until the car stops rolling then settle down. 70mm throttle bodies here but I can deal with it at the moment. Dang it...what was the name of the sensor (1986 GLH)

Tony, I can actually hit the brakes in 3rd gear to 10 mph, let off and the car will accelerate on it's own because the idle is still at 2000 rpm. I don't think this is supposed to be normal

 

[1TONY1]

Rocky, There is probably less chance of the problem in the stock configuration but as poor as these connectors look inside it would be a definite possibility. I have not heard about that problem on the stock stuff but it may be such an intermitant problem it is not diagnosed.

Varanus.......it's just a Dodge, what should we expect I will keep a closer watch but I don't think mine has ever been that high.

 

[Gerald]

just f.y.i. It's not only you Roe s/c guys. My viper is probably the worst. I can slow down also in a high / low gear and it will accelerate by itself. only way to kick it down is to blip the throttle. its' done it before the s/c was installed also..

Gerald

 

[varanus]

unfortunately blipping the throttle does nothing. Just have to wait for 15 to 30 secs for it to go down on it's own.
Still you gotta love the acceleration.

 

[Mike Adams]

Just to let everyone know since problems I have had have been 1st was a bad battery temp sensor (which is a stupid set up buy chrysler) which triggered a map sensor code. I got one bad VEC2 and one bad wiring harness for the VEC2 ( which has caused the VEC2 failure).

Sean has been great taking all my calls. Between the 2 of us we found a ground issue fix for some problems and VEC2 firmware update helped.

I now have 3 superchargers out their running like a stock unmodified car (other than faster than heck).

I now ground the rear battery sensor to the frame as it can feed back through the system and install older computers on all cars newer that 1999.

 

[kverges]

I have just finished the install in my '01. I just got the new firmware and the car has essentially stock driveability and no check engine lights set since the firmware (I got one misfire, cylinder 6, right after the install but before the firmware change). There are some tuning issues, and I think any professional tuner should check the car carefully with a diagnostic scanner and Wide Band O2 sensor, as my car needs to be fine tuned. I have both tools as an "advanced" hobbyist and I think in my case fuel will need to be trimmed about 7%. The diagnositc scanner is essential to read any codes that might be set and to look at fuel trim adaptives to see if there is any issue with loose injector connectors and any other troubleshooting. I also think that the kit will soon include new injector connectors to make sure there are no intermittent poor connections.

I have to say the fit and finish of the kit is fantastic, as are the instructions and Sean's excellent customer support. I recommend this kit to anyone with above average mechanical skills (you should have at least done an intake manifold and carb swap or something like that in your life). And get the diagnostic computer setup (Sean uses the EASE product, I use the cheaper OBDII Explorer).

 

[Sean Roe]

For anyone not familiar with the factory injector connectors, here are two pics (sorry the resolution isn't too good).

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

As you can see there are no retaining clips and the terminal doesn't have much of anything to keep pressure on the blade terminal in the injector.

Here's one of the premium ones available ($14.95 a pack of 10 with terminals).

You must be registered for see images

I set the crimp terminal verticle in the connector so you could see how it looks in comparison.

 

[MaxedGTS]

Just wondering why the factory injector clips are bad? do they go bad on the factory cars?

Max

 

[2MANYTOYS]

For anyone not familiar with the factory injector connectors, here are two pics (sorry the resolution isn't too good).

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

As you can see there are no retaining clips and the terminal doesn't have much of anything to keep pressure on the blade terminal in the injector.

Here's one of the premium ones available ($14.95 a pack of 10 with terminals).

You must be registered for see images

I set the crimp terminal verticle in the connector so you could see how it looks in comparison.

Sean
Where can I get these connectors? Maybe this is part of my problem. My car is still sitting covered up. I would really like to be driving it instead of looking at it in the garage. Also, Scott sent me a new wiring harness that I'm gonna try. Is it possible that my Vec2 is bad?? Any help would be appreciated.

 

[SUN RA KAT]

I have about 350 trouble free miles since my fuel injector connectors were super-connected by my Viper Tech.

I get between 9 and 11 miles per gallon now, which doesn't seem to be unreasonable for the power my Viper has. This is a combination of city/highway/frolic.

My question is "How much gas mileage are the rest of the Roe Supercharged Vipers getting?"

 

[Cudaman]

My gauge keeps rising!!!! OH... I am looking at the wrong gauge .....It is the BOOST gauge..... this one is more FUN to watch than gas gauge !!!
Cudaman

 

[Dr Roof]

CUDAMAN

i LOVE THAT GAUGE TOO!

 

[Cudaman]

Dr.Roof.... You have the same addiction !
Cudaman

 

[2MANYTOYS]

After weeks of frustration my viper is running problem free. I took out the 96 computer and installed my original 02 computer and changed the wiring harness. Big thanks to Vipermed for sending it to me. The car now has over 60 miles of hard driving with no problems and no codes. It idles perfectly and there are no idle hangs. Now that the car is running right I can honestly say that it is a blast to drive. This is a great system when the bugs are out.

 

[RedGTS]

That's great news, Brian. When are you coming over the mountain?

 

[2MANYTOYS]

That's great news, Brian. When are you coming over the mountain?

Hopefully soon! I'm going on a cruise Sat. for a week then I will be back. I do plan on going to a car show Fri. night for a while. Drive on over.