Bleeding Brakes

[jcaspar1]

I am getting ready for a day at Laguna Seca

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soon and am putting in 5 points and a fire extinguisher. Also am thinking it might be a good time to bleed/flush my brake system (97 GTS, original fluid). I have read the posts here and my shop manual and just want to make sure I have got the procedue right. I understand that I should start by draining and refilling the master cylinder with fresh fluid. Start with the most distant caliper (RR), bleed the rears once, the fronts inside/outside/inside. I don't have a pressure bleeder so will be doing this with a helper. About 5 bleed cycles per bleeder, till fluid is clear using clear hose to a container filled with clean clean fluid.
Lastly, I am still not clear on which fluid I should use! I plan on only doing 3-4 light track events a year and would prefer to nothave to bleed more than every 6 months. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[FrankBarba]

go to the local BMW dealer. get yourself the high performance
dot 4 brake fluid. I use this all the time. Others will talk you into using motoul ect. just my humble opinion.

 

[Henry Cone]

Jeff, I can offer the following suggestions. As far as brake fulid goes, I would suggest Castrol SRF (most expensive but best) with Motul 600 as a good, more cost effective alternative. But I would STRONGLY suggest bleeding before every track event. You risk boiling the fluid if you don't - particularly if you don't have any additional brake cooling aids. If you are aggressive you will probably need new pads for each event anyway and installing pads pushes old brake fluid back up into the master cylinder.

The bleeding order that you are planning is correct - RR, LR, RF, and LF with inner/outer/inner for the fronts. Initial bleed will need more than 5 pedal pumps to clear out all of the old fluid - and you should get all of it out!!

To make the bleeding process easier I would suggest replacing the stock bleeders with speed bleeders (from www.speedbleeder.com). They have a check valve in them that prevents brake fluid from being sucked back into the caliper when the pedal is released. Using them makes it possible to bleed solo or faster with a helper.

I hope that this helps!!!!

 

[FRANK]

Go to Pep Boys and get a quart of Prestone Brake Fluid for only $3.99!

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Laguna Seca requires a lot of braking and some (turn 2) from high speed. If you drive the car, the stock fluid will boil and Laguna is not the place to have brakes boil. High temperature brake fluid helps and Prosche A arm deflectors also help. Together they are a great team and you likely will not boil the fluid. One property of the high temp fluids is absorption of moisture which has 2 results one it lowers the boiling point and 2 will cause oxidation of the metal it contacts. If you want to play on the track bleeding brakes is a small part of track prep that is required. The fluid should be completely changed before each track event and a min. of every 6 months. To reduce bleed time (pumping) use a turkey baster to remove most of the old fluid from the reservoir and replace it with new fluid. We have an autocross event in Sac (Mather) May 19 and 20. If you want high temp fluid and Prosche A arm deflectors Rich Bontempi could bring them to the event. Do Not use low cost low boiling point fluid unless you only drive back and forth between home and the parts store.

 

[GTS Dean]

Jeff,

I think you have the procedure down fine. The best popular brake fluids mentioned around here are Motul, AP600, and SRF.

Motul carries a DOT rating, is available in motorcycle shops and is happily used by many around here. I find it interesting that even with so much hype and happiness, there are still a number of Motul users who continue to boil fluid.

AP600 is what I use and I flush my brake fluid about every 6-9 months. It is more pricey (about$18/pt.) and a bit more difficult to find. It is widely used by top race teams worldwide for ferrous and carbon/carbon brakes running at insane temperatures (kinda like my Viper). The only major drawback is lack of DOT certification. That doesn't bother me.

Castrol SRF is the ULTIMATE brake fluid and it is priced accordingly. It's cost is more than double that of AP600 and you have to buy it by the quart so your cost will be about $60+ per bottle. Properly done, a stock Viper brake system can be flushed with one pint of fluid.

I recommend: AP600 twice a year, thick brake pads, Porsche deflectors and keeping your foot off the brake pedal as much as possible. Lots of folks brake lightly and early, then trail deep into the turn. All this does is maximize heat transfer into the pads and reduce the available time for cooling air to work on the straights. Use brakes hard with modulation for the shortest possible time, then put your foot on the gas pedal.

 

[jcaspar1]

Thanks for the tips. I have already installed a set of porsche defelctors so it sounds like with better fluid I should be in good shape. I also installed some Porterfield R4S pads from Rich which work well. Henry, thanks again for the harness mounting templates. Should be great help once the harness arrives.

 

[Frank Parise]

Nix the Porterfield R4S pads. You will destroy them on the track and end your weekend on a sour note. You need the R4R pads.

 

[Jerry Scott[CO]]

After a while you will have trouble getting someone to pump your brakes for you while you drain the calipers. I rigged a 3 gallon plastic **** spray bottle to pressurize the master cylinder. You will need the Chrysler adapter tool 6643, which attaches with a hose from the spray bottle to the master cylinder. With 3 or 4 pumps the system is pressurized and you can bleed each caliper unassisted. Just remember to release the pressure at the bottle and not at the master cylinder when finished. This also works to blow out the entire system.

Motul 600 is the best fluid for the money. I have used it for 3 years on the track with no problems.

Jerry Scott[CO]

 

[Mike H]

Definitely bleeed those brakes, all four calipers! This should be a religous experience before every track event and twice a year if you dont. Brake fluid is hydroscopic. It naturally absorbs moisture, and that is one of its primary functions. The fluid as it absorbs moisture losses its boiling point. That is why you change the fluid, OFTEN!

 

[GTS Dean]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FRANK:
94 RT/10, Gulfpride Motor Oil, Purolator Oil Filter, Champion Spark Plugs (10), Gulf Nonox Gasoline 87 octane, Kraco Head Unit with Sparkomatic CD Player, Radio Shack 8 track adapter, Pep Boys Antifreeze, Mobil Gas Station Air In The Tires (28 psi), Sylvania Light Bulbs, Zaino Z1, Z2, Z3, Multiple Coats of Z5 and Z6, License Plate Bracketry, and A Viper Mitt when washing, Zip Wax Car Wash, K-Mart Sheepskin Seat Covers, and Rubber Floor Mats, Pinstripped pulses on side curtains, "Haulin *** " Air Freshener, dual whip antennas on each quarter panel,

Future Mods: 4.56 Richmonds, 8 Ball Shifter Handle, Bare Foot Gas/Brake Pedals, 40 Channel CB with linear, Air horns that blow "Dixie," and a bottle of ripple in my glove box with paper cups

1985 Dodge Ram
1994 RT10
1973 Dart
1977 New Yorker Brougham
1969 SC/Rambler
1995 Car Mate Open Trailer
1990 Lawn Boy Self Propelled, 4 HP
Gas Edger, weedwacker, hedge trimmer, and blower

SOLD:
1970 Plymouth Valiant 4 door
1987 Lebaron 2.2
1986 Lebaron Convertibe 2.2
1983 Garelli Super Sport Moped (49 cc)
Snap-On Toolbox - Matco Side Boxes

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Man, you have lots of cool stuff, Frank! And, I can't help but notice that your modification list keeps getting bigger and better. Where do you find the time, money and motivation?

I'm jealous....