Blew 2nd gear...need advice

[cdover73]

So I was driving home tonight and a car pulled out in front of me on a hill just before an open strech. I was able to maintain control and slow to literally 1st gear then went to go around once over the hill. I wasn't in it that hard, maybe 4000 when I shifted and I didn't bang the gears, but when I let off in 2nd... it wasn't there. All other gears work fine and I was able to limp home (about 2 miles), but there was a noticeable sound coming form the tranny. I had this happen to my '03 Mustang Mach 1, also with a Tremec, but that was the known weak 3650.

The good news is I bought the MOPAR factory powertrain warranty with the car and my policy says the tranny is covered for partial or full failure. So I guess it's off to the shop next week. The ironic thing is two more contributing elements were in the works at the same time.

1. I just bought a short throw B&M shifter and a First Strike knob. They haven't arrived yet. I was planning on installing them next weekend.

2. I have been smelling clutch the last few times I drove the car, so I figured that was also on the list.

My questions are:

1. Do you think the dealership will install the short throw and handle if I give it to them while the tranny is out being repaired/replaced?

2. I don't think the clutch is warranted. If I want to upgrade and buy an aftermarket clutch, would they also install it(with extra pay from me of course)??

3. What would be the clutch of choice if I was to upgrade? I had good luck with a Spec Stage II on the 'stang. Don't know anything about any other brand out there. I want grab but not heavy pedal.

I was lucky with the Mustang because they did both of these things when this happened before. Got my fingers crossed this time. I figure I'm gonna hear "that will void the warranty" or stuff like that.

And I just spent about 12 hours detailing the damn thing....

 

[Paul Hawker]

What year Viper and how many miles/mods?

 

[cdover73]

' 03 vert 40000 miles. No mods, all stock. Very well taken care of. Im the 2nd owner as of about 6 mths. I only put 5k on it. No notice at all when it went. Normal shift out of 1st at about 4000 into 2nd, no bang shift, let out on clutch and POW!! Spun up to rev limiter before I realized what happened. I do not drive the car hard. I play with it sometimes but no standing still wheel spins, bang shifts, or stuff like that. Never had a problem with it at all. I'm sure I dont drive it anywhere near what it was desigbed for and do not race it in any way (writing this starting to wonder why I even have a viper..lol). Im wondering if I was right at the skip shift point and something just didnt sync. Idk...

 

[cdover73]

I figured yall would be all over this one by now. Are tranny failures that common or that rare that nobody is interested and/or knowledgeable about this particlar problem? I cant find very much in the search on my issue, which concerns me a little. I will find out more from the dealer today as to what they want me to do with it. Kinda lost until then unless somebody gives me some solid advice from above. I dont want to ask them to do anything that may cause me grief. And im real curious to see your thoughts on the skip shift idea and synchro issues. Im still puzzled as to how the heck i busted a Viper tranny during normal driving...

 

[cdover73]

Talked to dealer this morning. The tranny is covered and so is the clutch! So I guess I will let them just put a new oem clutch in instead of upgrading this time. I dont race the car so I dont need the hp clutch for the street. OEM will do fine, especially since its free. She also told me they could install the shifter if I bring it in. I hope im not shooting myself in the foot too early, but if this keeps up I may be able to say I actually had a pleasant experience with a dealership service dept for once. They have been extremely nice so far and know me well, since im the only viper owner they currently have.

I will also be getting the oil pan seep fixed, the PS hoses replaced and the system flushed, and something called an OST manager replaced under either a recall or TSB (she saw this one in the system). May as well have all the required maintenance done while its in there, and a good once over by the tech to see if anything else is needed. Now I just have to find a car hauler to take it the 75 miles to them...

 

[NMviperguy]

' 03 vert 40000 miles. No mods, all stock. Very well taken care of. Im the 2nd owner as of about 6 mths. I only put 5k on it. No notice at all when it went. Normal shift out of 1st at about 4000 into 2nd, no bang shift, let out on clutch and POW!! Spun up to rev limiter before I realized what happened. I do not drive the car hard. I play with it sometimes but no standing still wheel spins, bang shifts, or stuff like that. Never had a problem with it at all. I'm sure I dont drive it anywhere near what it was desigbed for and do not race it in any way (writing this starting to wonder why I even have a viper..lol). Im wondering if I was right at the skip shift point and something just didnt sync. Idk...

Sounds like your car got mad at you for not driving her the way she was made to be driven. Glad everything is covered under warranty!

 

[cdover73]

Lol! Yep, that'll do it sometimes! The part im still confused about is how it happened. I would expect it more if I had been banging the gears and causing stress, but to happen during a normal shift...wth?? Im still curious to see anybodys thoughts on my idea about the skip shift theory. If I caught it in just the right millisecond position between skip shift on and off could I have slipped a syncro or something and caused it to fail? Im asking because this doesnt sound like a common problem and if its something I did I want to make sure it doesnt happen again. Any input is appreciated.

 

[cdover73]

I dropped it off today. Loading it on my trailer was a chore. When I started it up to back out my shop and load it there was no clutch pedal. I had to pump it a while to get it to prime. Fluids are full and no leaks underneath. Once it pumped up it was fine. I have no idea what has happened but I am curious to see. I told the tech that i want to know if they find anything. If it does have anything to do with the skip shift then its gotta go when I get it back. They are gonna install the short throw as well which will be a big help.

 

[NMviperguy]

I am curious to find out as well. Keep us updated!

 

[Steve-Indy]

I wonder if you slave cylinder is shot...maybe master as well. If so, your shift may have been made without clutch benefit. Have certainly seen one or both go out about 10-12 years of age...especially if owner never changed clutch fluid .

 

[cdover73]

Very possible. But I wasn't rev shifting when it happened so I think it would have been more apt to grind going into 2nd before it blew. I clutched, shifted into 2nd, let out, and BAM! I was also able to clutch it and go into 3rd to limp home without an issue. But I agree...there's more going on than just a 2nd gear failure. I just hope nothing shows up that they will try to fight me over. That's always my luck, even though the car is stock and wasn't being driven hard, they will never believe that.

I will keep this thread updated. May be a couple weeks before I know anything. The dealership said it may take a month to complete.

 

[Viper X]

' 03 vert 40000 miles. No mods, all stock. Very well taken care of. Im the 2nd owner as of about 6 mths. I only put 5k on it. No notice at all when it went. Normal shift out of 1st at about 4000 into 2nd, no bang shift, let out on clutch and POW!! Spun up to rev limiter before I realized what happened. I do not drive the car hard. I play with it sometimes but no standing still wheel spins, bang shifts, or stuff like that. Never had a problem with it at all. I'm sure I dont drive it anywhere near what it was desigbed for and do not race it in any way (writing this starting to wonder why I even have a viper..lol). Im wondering if I was right at the skip shift point and something just didnt sync. Idk...

Somebody has likely driven your car aggressively in the past, banging the 1 to 2 shift. The T-56 is pretty strong but you can hurt it if you bang gears or drop the clutch while launching with drag radials, slicks, etc.

Also, if you accelerate hard or even spirited while going over bumps, you can hurt it. If you are going to drive aggressively in the future, it would be a good idea know the road ahead and make sure it's smooth.

Finally, if you or your predecessor has launched hard and "wheel hopped" the rear tires, this can hurt the trans.

Sorry you had a problem.

IMHO, at 40K miles you should replace the clutch slave and clutch while the trans is out.....and the OE clutch is pretty robust. I'd stick with it.

You may also want to consider a lighter weight flywheel while the trans is out.

Dan

 

[cdover73]

I agree with you on all your points. All I can say is I know how I drive and this shouldnt have happened. However, I do downshift rather often when slowing. You think there is a chance that may have caused back pressure on the syncros or gears and caused it? Like bending a wire back and forth.

I am going back with factory clutch. I also need to make sure they are replacing the pressure plate and maybe even the flywheel if it has hot spots on it. I would like to upgrade to a lightweight flywheel but I dont wanna push my luck being that everything, including the clutch, has been covered under warranty so far. I plan to call them tomorrow to check the status. I will update if there is anything of value.

 

[Viper X]

Cdover73,

I guess what I'm trying to let you know that it's unlikely that your dirving style did any damage to the car based upon your comments......but it had 35K miles driven by a different person who may not have driven it like you did.

Vipers are very robust, but they can be abused like anything else.

 

[cdover73]

Yeah I understand. That's what I meant by "I totally agree with your points".

Update....

I just talked to the dealer and my normal luck I have always dealt with ("Oh, you got one of THOSE!!!) just kicked into high gear. Dodge can't find a replacement anywhere in the world!! I assume she meant they can't find an OEM stock tranny off the shelf that would continue to be covered under the factory warranty. Otherwise, I just found no less than 20 in a 10 minute internet search. She mentioned they may approach me with a buy-back offer if they can't find one. I hope they will install an aftermarket version at a minimum, even if it means me agreeing to waive the tranny on future warranty claims. I don't want to sale my car back because it will be hard to replace it. They probably will only offer NADA price, which will not benefit me at all. I will be out money and a car. If I were Dodge, I would rather spend a couple thousand and exclude the tranny under warranty than buy the car back at more than 10x that cost. But I'm not Dodge... Can anyone that deals with a dealership please chime in and give me some insight as to what I should expect?

Thanks,

 

[cdover73]

Also, I talked to Rockland about the Tranzilla. Is that the go-to tranny for the Viper? Are people happy with it or is there another one I should be looking at? The sales lady said she could provide a basically stock re-man tranny or she could sale a Tranzilla but it requires a 31 spline yoke. If the dealership even agrees with this option, I assume they will want to go with the base version. Is there anything I could do to convince them to upgrade?

 

[steve e]

Show up with a 44 mag, that might help.

 

[NMviperguy]

I'd let them know that's not an option, find out what they would pay for a warranty transmission and tell them you will pay the difference for the aftermarket transmission. There is no way I would let my viper go!

 

[cdover73]

Rockland can provide a near stock OEM unit for minor cost. We are trying to get Dodge to agree to letting us go that route. If Tremec backs Rockland's rebuilds why wouldn't Dodge??? I don't think we will get to a buy back situation. I talked to a certain member of this board and he thinks the car is too old for Dodge to even consider that option. I think we will get there sooner or later. But I WILL keep my car, even if it means breaking out the ol' 44...

 

[Viper X]

I put a Gen IV trans, i.e. TR 6060 in my 2006 Coupe along with a shorter shifter. Very nice upgrade. This unit is stronger, shifts smoother, quicker and is pretty hard to beat. You will need to order the shorter drive shaft, but Mopar offers a kit making it no big deal.

Call Jon B, Tomball Dodge or other VCA supporters. Likely they can help you with this. If you have not luck, some of us have good used unit sitting in our garages as spare parts .....

Doubt that there will be any buy back option.....

Dan

 

[NMviperguy]

I put a Gen IV trans, i.e. TR 6060 in my 2006 Coupe along with a shorter shifter. Very nice upgrade. This unit is stronger, shifts smoother, quicker and is pretty hard to beat. You will need to order the shorter drive shaft, but Mopar offers a kit making it no big deal.

Call Jon B, Tomball Dodge or other VCA supporters. Likely they can help you with this. If you have not luck, some of us have good used unit sitting in our garages as spare parts .....

Doubt that there will be any buy back option.....

Dan

Outside of the driveshaft did you have to do anything else? Does it work with stock tune?

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Outside of the driveshaft did you have to do anything else? Does it work with stock tune?

No tune needed

 

[Viper X]

No tune needed

Dittos. Not changing anything related to the engine operation or tune.

 

[cdover73]

Update....

Looks like the warranty folks don't want to go with a rebuilt unit. So instead.....they wanna have it rebuilt....***??!!!!

The dealer told me Dodge wanted to tear down my tranny and rebuild it. I asked what the difference is of getting one off the shelf already rebuilt by Rockland and backed by Tremec vs rebuilding this one. She said it has to be done by a Dodge certified repair center. So they are sending my car to Salsbury Dodge City in Baton Rouge since they don't have the expertise in-house at Riverland. Not to say the guy there isn't able, I think maybe he doesn't have the level of training needed. Now I will have to deal with another dealer that probably won't give me the service Riverland has because they didn't sell me the car. Regardless, it has to be right so maybe they will at least do a good job. But Salsbury is huge and I don't think I will get the one-on-one treatment from them. As long as I get the car back right I don't guess it matters. I just think it would be quicker to order the Rockland T-56 than tear this one down, but what do I know...

 

[NMviperguy]

Hmmm... How long of a turn around? Priority is key, with a big dealership they probably have a lot of services going on at once... Hopefully this doesn't turn into a month long rebuild.

 

[steve e]

Look at the good side, if they do a good job on your unit, you will still have a numbers matching car, if that maters to you.

 

[Free2go]

Look at the good side, if they do a good job on your unit while you wait, they could kill two Vipers with one stone

Fixed......

 

[cdover73]

You guys seem as bored as I am....too much time on your hands?? LOL

Hopefully I will get some heads-up today as to when they will transfer the car to Baton Rouge. Being that my past experience with dealerships have been shady, to say the least, I keep nervously waiting for some bad news. Like they found something else wrong that caused it and it isn't covered, or they will try to say it was abused. Idk, but I know they always seem to find a way to get out of spending money, especially if they can turn it around to the customer. Maybe I just have a bad taste and should cut them a break. They are treating me well so far. I guess we will see...

 

[cdover73]

Aaaannndd it starts.................I knew it!!!

So I stopped by my dealership Monday and the car hadn't moved (been there two weeks+). I was told they had to have a certified Viper tech go into the tranny and their guy didn't have the right tools, so it has to be sent to Baton Rouge (already knew this). They said they would coordinate the delivery and let me know. That was Monday. Today I called and they said they had talked to Salsbury and was waiting for them to say when to bring it to them. I hung up and called Salsbury and talked to the service manager. He said all he was waiting on was for Riverland to bring him the car. UGH!!! I tried calling Riverland back and couldn't get a service rep so I called Dodge customer service. He was great, understood the situation, and placed me on hold while he talked to both dealers to work it out. He said it was done, but that Riverland would be calling me to arrange the delivery. I asked why they had to call me and he said so I could agree to the towing they were arranging!!! ***??!! I told him I wasn't paying any extra transport cost. I took the car to my dealer, AS INSTRUCTED, and I can't help they can't fix it and have to send it somewhere else. I already spent $150 out of my pocket (rented trailer and fuel for 140 miles round trip). The warranty allows for $100 towing to get the car to a repair center. I did that plus some...!!!

So I talked to Riverland and they started telling me how much it would cost ($288) to tow it to Baton Rouge. I told them I wasn't paying it and she put me through to the service manager. I explained my stance that I did my part, I shouldn't be responsible for any more towing. If I had known it had to go to Salsbury in the 1st place I would have taken it there. I turned the car in to a certified repair center for a warranty repair. I'm not gonna leapfrog the car all over the US at my cost! It's their repair, fix it and get it back to me!!! I don't think that I am being unfair. I even told them I wouldn't claim the $100 for my original expense and let them apply that to this bill. Still not good enough.

So I'm back on the phone with Dodge CS and was transferred to the SRT line. That helped. They understood my situation and escalated the case to a supervisor. I should hear from them by early next week. The car will sit there until I get confirmation from Dodge. In the end, I will pay the towing if I have to just to get it moving. I just feel the need to take the stance I did on this or else I will be paying for everything outside the repair. And we are not even talking about the car payment and insurance I am paying for a car I can't drive while all of this is getting sorted....

Am I wrong???

 

[cdover73]

And now I just found out their is only 1 viper tech at Salsbury. A guy I have done business with outside the dealer ship before on my 08 Ram 3500. He told me he doesn't rebuild manual tranny's. Now what to do.... Haul the car up there only to be told they can't fix it either and then I have pay towing again to somewhere else? Or let them work it and hopefully be able to convince Dodge to go with a RSGear tranny? I'm almost to the point of buying the dam thing myself and installing it.