Free Jon B

[MoparMap]

I heard some order numbers for VPA a while back and they're not exactly making anyone rich. I think it was something like a little over 100 orders last year that was something like $20,000, up from less than 50 orders and under $10k that it's been for the past few years since it's inception (the message being that it's grown year to year nicely). It's not a huge mega-operation clearing $100k+ a year. Not saying that this info shouldn't be more available for people, but just trying to put things in scale for those concerned about the money.

 

[ViperSmith]

I heard some order numbers for VPA a while back and they're not exactly making anyone rich. I think it was something like a little over 100 orders last year that was something like $20,000, up from less than 50 orders and under $10k that it's been for the past few years since it's inception (the message being that it's grown year to year nicely). It's not a huge mega-operation clearing $100k+ a year. Not saying that this info shouldn't be more available for people, but just trying to put things in scale for those concerned about the money.

Yeah, the open financial statements really help figure that out.

 

[sun diego]

Then disclose the truth, and if it is too small to be economic, ask Chrysler what they want us to do with the parts, and shut it down. I would suggest give the parts to JonB to sell, and have him give 50% of sales back to the VCA. It would probably net them far more than the current situation. It would also give him a chance to recoup part of what this *** has cost him.

 

[TowDawg]

The main issue (only my gut feeling) is that even if the VPA is bringing in $75k-$100k a year, what is CM's "salary" and the other "expenses" from it? They might be able to say that all "profits" go to the club, but what if there are no "profits" after CM gets paid? Technically, they are telling the truth, and it would pass an external audit. However, that doesn't make it right. Open the books and let's see.
Again, my understanding is that they legally HAVE to open the books upon written request (which they have gotten), but they refuse to unless someone wants to spend the money to take them to court and get a court order to do so.

 

[99 R/T 10]

The main issue (only my gut feeling) is that even if the VPA is bringing in $75k-$100k a year, what is CM's "salary" and the other "expenses" from it? They might be able to say that all "profits" go to the club, but what if there are no "profits" after CM gets paid? Technically, they are telling the truth, and it would pass an external audit. However, that doesn't make it right. Open the books and let's see.
Again, my understanding is that they legally HAVE to open the books upon written request (which they have gotten), but they refuse to unless someone wants to spend the money to take them to court and get a court order to do so.

****, good point. So if what your saying is true, all monies from VPA sales was going to CM. Like he had a vested interest.

 

[Janni]

The last "disclosure" I had (Sept 2012) was that VPA employed 3 people - Herb, Chris and Thad (shipping guy). Herb's salary has already been discussed here. Chris was making about $40K from VPA and I think - but not 100% sure - THad was $20K.

If we're paying anyone near six figures in total to handle 100 orders - we're dumber than we look. (or over $60K excluding Herb)

That is totally not what is being portrayed to the *** - it's being portrayed that there's a LOT of work involved in this - WAYYYYYYYYY more than 100 orders. Seriously.

that doesn't even make a lick of sense.

 

[balance]

I understand your concern for safety when people can be so hateful. No one should have to be concerned for their own welfare and safety because of a car club. Imagine my concern during the VOI board meeting with you swearing at me, Bob Carroll screaming at me to answer his questions like I was a witness, and Bobby C smashing his fists on the table and yelling at me. It was late before we got out of there. I was alone. And I had to drove home by myself (because I had a sick dog and needed to go back and get the car and the husband!) and was in the car until 2:30 AM. But hey- that's okay - make sure there's a cop there for the elections because we somehow conducted ourselves in a manner where folks felt threatened.

.

This doesn't sound made up and is the worst of everything I have read so far over the last month. THIS is the sort of thing that would absolutely disgust Ralph and SRT. That no one stepped in the very second these spineless (mod. please edit if necessary) fellows with no character chose to behave this way is inexcusable.

 

[Frank 03SRT]

Even though the money "may" not be that staggering, it is about impropriety that bothers me the most. I don't like sneaky, shady dealings. They happen all the time, but in a car club?? I know there is no proof, but it is real hard to prove anything without data.

 

[sun diego]

Can someone confirm if this is real?Mr. Randall Arnold
Via: [email protected]

Your multiple resignations submitted to both Dan Everts and myself as National Vice President are accepted. Further, this is to notify you that effective as of the date of this notice, your membership in the VCA is suspended for disruptive conduct in accordance with the authority in the VCA Bylaws Article II, Section 3c. Additionally, along with your status as suspended member is loss of any VCA Membership rights and privileges including the disqualification to hold any position within the VCA. This means that you are no longer a director or hold any positions within the club.

Your actions in attempting to seize power, unsettling the organization and the membership, illegally removing the elected President, and issuing demands to others that usurp the presidency have damaged and harmed the club and are quite unacceptable.

As counsel explained during the call this past week, as President, the bylaws provide me the authority to take this action, particularly as half of the national officers are in agreement.


Regards,


Lee Stubberfield, President
Viper Club of America

 

[sun diego]

Same question?Dear fellow Directors,



The position of Southwest Zone Director became vacant due to an incomplete
term upon the suspension of Jim Johnson. As President of the VCA, I am
appointing Ron Kooser Southwest Zone Director to fill this vacancy.



These appointments are effective as of the date of this notice and the
actions takes are in accordance with the VCA Bylaws including Article V,
Section 12. I have reviewed these actions for their validity with the VCA
legal representation and have the assurance that they are within my
authority and are valid and binding.





Regards,





Lee Stubberfield, President

Viper Club of America

 

[sun diego]

Mr. Jim Johnson

Via: [email protected]



This is to notify you that effective as of the date of this notice, your
membership in the VCA is suspended for disruptive conduct in accordance with
the authority in the VCA Bylaws Article II, Section 3c. Additionally, along
with your status as suspended member is loss of any VCA Membership rights
and privileges including the disqualification to hold any position within
the VCA. This means that you are no longer a director or hold any positions
within the club.



This action is taken in response to your broadcast to parties outside of the
National Officers of a privileged letter from Chrysler to the National
Officers. There are items that are in the best interest of the organization
to be confidential to a board of directors. There are also items that if
not held in confidence are harmful and damaging to an organization.



You had no authority to broadcast that letter and it is a primary reason
that the club and its membership is in the state of chaos. This is not the
first time you have acted recklessly in something like this but it is the
most damaging.



Your action is also directly in severe violation of the Conflict of
Interest, Confidentiality, Conduct and Insurance Policy of the VCA. This
action and others by you in the past demonstrate you are not trustworthy and
are damaging to the organization.



As counsel explained during the call this past week, as President, the
bylaws provide me the authority to take this action, particularly as half of
the national officers are in agreement.



Regards,





Lee Stubberfield, President

Viper Club of America

 

[CitySnake]

With reference to Jon B, his only fault was his persistence of business via this forum. At the time when this became problematic, I was site moderator and a member of the "vaunted " website committee as well as president of the NY/CT Region. Among that small group, I was one of two members (as best as I can recall) that was lobbying to work with Jon and tone down his website marketing "antics". After much cajoling (and begging), he reigned it in considerably. But the animosity towards Jon amongst a few in that group was wildly inappropriate. No question that there were additional "winds of discontent" the specifics of which were certainly unknown to me at that time. Jon can be his own worst enemy in terms of his attitude. That being stated, if it were not for his being a competing vendor with the VPA, his sales would be determined by the Viper marketplace. Some adore him and some find him to be a major PIA (often like myself), but that's his professional cross to bear. Members should patronize his business as you see fit based on his prices, (extraordinary) Viper expertise and his "attitude". His banning from the website had little to do with his overzealous and often annoying forum marketing. It had everything to do with his competitor's illicit desire to shut him down. In addition to Jon, many of our vendors were threatened financially by the VCA. Pure and simple, it was theft. As for the VCA, I've deliberately remained out of the stench since I was removed purely as part of the "members with ethical backbones house cleaning phase" that immediately preempted the national **** By-Laws change. There's an extraordinary amount of discussion about the effort going on behind the scenes to "right the sinking VCA ship". Seems odd to me since the basic principles of ethics should rule. -Memorize the definition of "volunteerism" World English Dictionary

volunteerism (ˌvɒlənˈtɪərɪzəm)
— n
	the principle of donating time and energy for the benefit of other people in the community as a social responsibility rather than for any financial reward

If you cannot FULLY adhere to the previous, then step aside and allow another (others) to participate accordingly. (Alternatively you could lead by manipulating the system under the guise that you are the single and sole potential savior for Viper life as we know it and appropriate all possible financial gain for yourself, family and friends)

 

[johniew398]

Looks like the entire club is imploding:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWTuwp8v-rQ

 

[STUGOTS]

I have always heard about Jon's Attitude and the "monday" thing, I think almost everytime I called was on a monday (i do weekend research and act on it monday morning) and have NEVER EVER got that response EVER, mind you when I was a kid im sure I asked some DUMB questions LOL

 

[big-n-italian]

Looks like the entire club is imploding:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWTuwp8v-rQ

the re-building process has to start somewhere.

 

[johniew398]

Ok, anyone else on the board or that is a National Officer care to speak up?

If yes, now is your chance to tell us what has been going on + in the process get suspended/banned from the club.

You saw what happened to Randall Arnold, the National Vice President. That's what happens when someone tries to do the right thing.

I'm also surprised some more of you regional Presidents haven't pulled your clubs out of this mess.

 

[MoparMap]

I'm pretty sure if Chris was making the kind of money everyone thinks he is, he would be living a much more lavish lifestyle. I've met the man and his family. I've had dinner with him on multiple occasions with my own family and they're fun, down to earth people. His son drives a bus (at least he did earlier this year when I first met him) to help pay for college. He's not getting a free ride on the Viper club's coattails. Chris has his own personality that some might find odd, but so does everyone else I've ever met in the club. People have their quirks. I'm sure people think I'm weird too. Heck, I'm the only one in my club that daily drives their car, but no one treats me any different.

People should really stop personally attacking people unless they have actual physical proof of things. Everyone has rumors that so-and-so got paid this much to do this or went here or there on the club's dime, but without the full story there's no way to know what's actually true and the circumstances behind everything. From what I heard, JR Thompson charged $150k to organize VOI and Coast to Coast (the Marshalls) only charged $50k when they did it. No one pays attention to the fact that they helped save the club $100k in costs, they just see that they made $50k on the club and scream bloody ******. Are these numbers true? I can't confirm that one way or the other as I haven't been around very long and don't have access to that information. I'm just as uninformed as the rest of you, but I'm not claiming that anyone is stealing from the club until there is actual proof.

Everyone has their stories, but unless we hear both sides we shouldn't be making any decisions. This whole ordeal should be more like a trial, not a lynch mob. Both sides of the situation need to be examined by people qualified to do the job. It shouldn't be a "grab your pitchforks" lynch mob for whichever side can get the most backing.

 

[MoparMap]

Another quesiton I have is if VPA is so dead set against pushing competition out as people claim, why are all the other vendors still around the forums? Woodhouse is still here, RSI still posts, there are banners running for other places like Scharf and stuff as well still kicking. If VPA is so great and powerful and wants a monopoly on Viper parts and makes the money everyone thinks they do then they wouldn't need any extra money from vendors to keep the site running. If PartsRack is the only vendor that's been pushed out, there was probably a good reason for it. Just my take on it at least.

 

[sun diego]

MoparMap, I've met the Marshalls and they are quite pleasant and competent. It's about disclosure. The info on the club owned business, such as pay is wrapped up as tight as nuclear launch codes. They may be under paid. But without disclosure, who knows?

 

[Stealth]

+1 Free Jon B!

 

[sun diego]

I'd like to thank the mods for keeping an open discussion here, for the betterment of the club.

 

[eucharistos]

..... If PartsRack is the only vendor that's been pushed out,.....

this is not the case, as i understand it

 

[BlknBlu]

I am aware of a few that have left and others that are not allowed to be vendors that have a great rep.

Bruce

 

[VRYALT3R3D]

If PartsRack is the only vendor that's been pushed out, there was probably a good reason for it. Just my take on it at least.

Tire Rack left as well.

 

[STUGOTS]

Tire rack is still on the top right with a banner

 

[351carlo]

Tire rack is still on the top right with a banner

http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/668183-Tire-Rack

 

[STUGOTS]

Place is doomed, things need to get better

 

[MoparMap]

MoparMap, I've met the Marshalls and they are quite pleasant and competent. It's about disclosure. The info on the club owned business, such as pay is wrapped up as tight as nuclear launch codes. They may be under paid. But without disclosure, who knows?

I agree there. I just don't like people taking personal shots at my friends. I'm all for disclosure regarding the club stuff, that's a completely fair request. All the people flat out calling people I know thieves is what bothers me.

 

[99 R/T 10]

I agree there. I just don't like people taking personal shots at my friends. I'm all for disclosure regarding the club stuff, that's a completely fair request. All the people flat out calling people I know thieves is what bothers me.

Well, go over to his house and see him face to face. Get back to us on that one.

On that note, why is Chris sending a letter to the *** about anything? As the VPA, he is suppose to be completely separate, yet here he is making a stupid analogy trying to explain away his actions and the actions of others:

Letter from Chirs Marshall to *** LAST WEEK:

VCA Board of Directors -

Close your eyes (figuratively speaking of course) and take ALL the names out of these discussions. No Maurice, no Lee, no Ralph, etc. Pull out ALL the emotion from this - love, hate, anger, embarrassment, etc. What you have left is the foundation of not only the club, not only Chrysler, but of society as a whole - it's called law. Without law there is chaos. This seems to be happening with the club right now with infighting, regions seceding, and the most horrific press that any car club has probably ever received in history. Take the emotions completely out and then take a good hard look at where the club is today.

Let's go back to the beginning using a simple and relatively clear analogy:

At a large city event Bob Smith, a city employee, goes up and punches a woman in the face. The city council meets and suspends him without pay for a minimum of one year. He may be readmitted after that minimum time is served based on continued good behavior. The city council also make it clear, in writing, that Bob cannot attend any city functions during that suspension.

Bob complains to his friend Jeff, whose company had been a large benefactor to the city in the past. Jeff is not a city council member but asks the city to reconvene the council and set aside that ruling, reminding them of his company's generosity and the loss of revenue if he were to pull it. There are absolutely no business reasons whatsoever to make that request - Jeff simply wants to help his friend. There are even pictures of Bob hitting the woman and he has admitted to it in writing. The city has no reason to set aside that suspension and has a sworn duty to uphold the decisions it makes. You should also note that the city has been providing Jeff's company with outstanding services for over a decade.

Jeff starts to follow through on his threats, ripping up a company donation check in the mayor's office and walking out. People decide to write to Jeff's boss to complain about this heavy-handed attempt to get the council to change its own ruling for Jeff's friend Bob. The company investigates and finds that the allegations involving Jeff are true. They also find that Jeff has been exchanging gifts with some of those city council members at events they hosted. Those same city council members had also invited suspended employee Bob Smith to those events - in direct violation of the very policies that they were charged with enforcing. After that investigation and the check-ripping incident, the company informs the city that Jeff will no longer be the direct contact for the city.

A few months later and Jeff's company sends a letter to the city council cosigned by Jeff. In that letter they mention another city employee (and Bob's former coworker), Lisa, who they say cannot work with them anymore if the city wants their company to continue being a benefactor. Lisa has never been an issue until now and has been working with them for several years. Nonetheless, the city immediately agrees to review Lisa's position and she herself offers to step down from her position if it will help the city. The company is satisfied that the city is addressing it and things are getting back to normal.

At that point Bob gets a copy of that letter from one of the city council members and takes it to the local paper. They then print a scathing article about Lisa, how she has been stealing from the city for years, and how she drives a city-paid Rolls Royce - all based on the slander Bob and a few of his friends anonymously tell the paper. The article makes the city appear corrupt, including the city council. It also mentions Jeff's company, but paints it as the victim in all of this. The focus is now off of Jeff and Bob completely.

Now in this scenario different things would have happened. First, the city would have either ignored Jeff's threats or canceled their relations with his company themselves. Second, they would have removed those council members that violated the laws they had established and were charged with enforcing. They would have issued an immediate correction to the paper, including the facts about Lisa's employment and the truth about Bob's suspension - something they had avoided doing previously out of respect to Bob.

Instead, select city council members ignore their fiduciary duty and it becomes a media circus. At the direction of those council members, the city ignores the slanderous newspaper article which it knows to be completely false. Reading the false information that the city may lose Jeff's company as a benefactor, Bob's friends start calling for blood. They want Lisa fired and thrown out of the city. City council members, led by Jeff's friends, meet illegally to impeach the mayor. Those same city council members condemn the people that wrote to Jeff's boss - threatening to evict them from the city as well. This, despite the very obvious fact that they had nothing to gain whatsoever, they were simply trying to protect their city. An old mayor is then brought in to tell everybody how great Jeff is and that the city should be run based on friendships - not law.

By ignoring the laws they were sworn to enforce, the city falls into complete chaos. Knowing the city won't enforce its own laws, residents speed through red lights, vandalize city property, and do whatever they want. People move out of the city in droves and the city may very well disband. And all because Jeff was trying to help his friend Bob who, by the way, is still punching people in the face - with the photographs to prove it.

Seems pretty obvious what is right and what is wrong. Just as city council members are elected to enforce the laws they create, the VCA board must enforce established laws and board decisions. If a city council member disobeys those laws they are removed. If that is not the case, then the city council should just be disbanded (not even replaced) and Jeff allowed to appoint whoever he feels will best serve him to run the city, at least while there is still a city.

I have long said that I have no problem with any of the players in this drama, and that is still true today. It would be painfully easy to take these (and many more) facts to a wider audience, however I want to protect the club - and always have. What I have a problem with, as should everybody on this board and all of its members, is when club bylaws are ignored by the very people elected to enforce them, resulting in the chaos you see today. Not to mention favoring the desires of a (very) few over the welfare of the entire club.

There is no innuendo or “attack” in either this analogy or reality – at least not from the perspective of the city or the VCA. Everything is based on very well documented and verified facts. Emails, letters, phone calls, legal filings, and board meetings will all reflect these facts.

The Viper Club of America board of directors faces two options: doing the right thing by performing the duty that each of you was elected or appointed in good faith to perform based on facts, or simply throwing out all the rules and living with whatever consequences it brings. So far that doesn't seem to be working very well - it's called anarchy.

 

[my viper]

Where did they teach Chris to talk like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna ****-****" bar? Sell crazy someplace else, Chris, we're all stocked up here.

It's been a few weeks and seeing that above letter tells me no actions have been taken to correct the situation.