Frustrated with the VCA

slaughterj

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As with any other car club or any other club organized around peoples' common interests, it is my understanding that a club should be operated for the members and by the members. When I encounter difficulties with simple matters, for instance requesting a copy of the financials which the VCA By-Laws and state laws require to be provided upon request, I find myself frustrated with the VCA. These sorts of difficulties do not lend themselves to a perception or reality that the organization is operated for the members.

But then when I look to the By-Laws to see what is necessary to obtain a position in the organization that would enable positive change, I see that the organization is also not operated by the members. Instead, there is a byzantine labyrinth of requirements to be followed in order for a member to ever possibly achieve a national office, which is a system whose complexity is more akin to a political system of cronyism and nepotism than a simple system that should be in place for something so mundane as a car club.

With the recent events regarding the release of financial information, I decided to look into what would be required to enable me to become Treasurer and thereby be able to resolve such matters. Here's what I found:
1. In order to become a National Officer such as Treasurer, one must be elected by the National Board (i.e., not a vote among the "common" members of the club), and only those who are Directors at Large or Zone Directors may be elected into a National Officer position (i.e., no "common" member can be so elected). See VCA By-Laws, Article V, Section 9.
2. In order to become a Director at Large, one must be elected by zone members (though the By-Laws position description does not properly state that), and only those who are past or present Regional Officers may be elected as a Director at Large (i.e., no "common" members of the club). See VCA By-Laws, Article V, Section 7; Article VII, Section 6. In order to become a Zone Director, one must be elected by Regional Officers (i.e., not the "common" members of the zone), and it only those who are past or present Regional Officers can become Zone Directors (i.e., not the "common" members of the zone). See VCA By-Laws, Article V, Section 8; Article VII, Section 4.
3. Therefore, one must be elected as a Regional Officer, then be elected as a Director at Large or Zone Director, before becoming eligible to be a National Officer, and each stage of Director elections (though not Director at Large) and National Officer elections are controlled by a very small portion of the club's membership.

The unnecessarily complex officer system seems to contribute to both an inability to get reasonably rapid changes in leadership such that issues that arise may be adequately addressed, as well as the fact that it seems to separate the board members from the general club members to such an extent that there is not an evident concern that members' issues need to be properly addressed.

As a result, I would like to see several things. I would like to see the organization's structure reworked such that the organization's members have both the ability to directly vote on those to be elected to National Officer positions, as well as to be able to be voted into those positions. Failing that (and given the lack of responsiveness of the organization's leadership to fundamental issues such as readily rendering available the financials, I fully expect this to be disregarded as well), I would like to see those on the National Board who are not in favor of such changes to be replaced by others who are. Given the nature of organization's structure, I expect this will take some time, as it will either require those who are currently or previously Regional Officers to step up, or for others to first become Regional Officers.

I'm not sure of the extent of interest by others to effect such changes, but I'd be interested in seeing who else is in favor (or in opposition, with reasons stated). I myself intend to inquire as to a Regional Officer position for my Region, and hope others do the same, because I would like to see the club truly be operated by and for its members.
 

Both Stacks Blowin'

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Never read or heard of such a load of utter rubbish. Would a member of the VCA Committee be kind enough to explain in "plain english" why the rules are so "complicated"?

Are we running an organisation along the lines of a Communist State or what? I thought that the USA was the land of the free!!!!!!!!
 
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slaughterj

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So if I read this correctly, you have to work your way up the latter to become a national officer, correct?

Exactly. And be elected by secret ballot by a very select group.
 

NCVCA

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byzantine labyrinths. Now that sounds like something fun.

I'm betting the system came into existance over many years and just ended up being complicated.

Past higher ups have used this system to defend themselves and their positions.

Why don't you just start by getting the financials? I know the local prez has easy access to them (and has taken the time to understand them too).

This club doesn't respond well to yelling. I tried that and as an unfortunate result I wasn't able to redesign this very site even though it sorely needed it...
 

pj

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I tried that and as an unfortunate result I wasn't able to redesign this very site even though it sorely needed it...

I wasn't aware that you had offered to redesign this site; but I do recall you starting one of your own. Somehow I doubt any offers of help on the site would be ignored.
 

99 R/T 10

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Why don't you just start by getting the financials? I know the local prez has easy access to them (and has taken the time to understand them too).

Really?! There has been MANY requests over the last year+ and to date, no financial information has been provided by ANY VCA officer. Only excuses and a request for a CPA to figure it all out for them. :confused: :confused:
 

OutThere

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Let's revolt... eliminate the existing ruling class... take over the VCA and rename it The Democratic Republic of Viper Owners.
 

FranciscoR.

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lol...be careful what you ask for. One question is, is it better to have a VCA with messed up officers (that even without financial papers still functions what i would guess is relatively well), or no VCA at all?
 

Janni

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There is a yearly meeting if the *** in January. If you really want the bylaws changed to make national offices elected by popular vote, then it's reasonable to bring forward then and ask for the change. Your Zone director or Director at large can bring this forward for you.

I too, agree that the method by which one can become a natinal officer is pretty much nepotism at it's finest, as jobs and titles are handed down through the national offices, with little or no real "choice" as it's already been predetermined based on the way the bylaws are written. No one runs against anyone else, unfortunately. And I don't mean that I think Joe is a bad Pres, quite the contrary.

The elected leaders through representatives works in a LARGE organization where it would be difficult to poll all the members and vote accordingly. However, with a total population of 5000, a true popular election would be pretty easy. I do thikn however, that in order to run, someone should have had some experience being a club officer SOMEWHERE and not be able to run as national Pres right out of the chute. There's a balance.

At the St. Louis VOI, my first as a Pres as a result of the untimely death of our then Prez, the new bylaws were voted on. I took a bit of time to review them and realized that the bylaws were written to take all the decision making and voice away from the regional presidents and gives it entirely to the *** (Zone Directors, Directors at Large and National Offiers) As such, I was the lone dissenting vote to adopt the new bylaws.

I am in agreement that the National officers seem to be out of touch with some of the members. Also, the "representative" structure has the regional president's "reporting" to ZD, DALs, etc., when in fact, I thought that those folks were elected to specialize and assist the regional officers. I thought that a DAL would be in charge of insurance issues, web issues, merchandise, financials, fund raising, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my region and doing all the presidential stuff, but I don't necessarily get a warm fuzzy when it comes to national.
 

Y2K5SRT

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Imagine if our own government were elected the same way:

We vote for our local representatives and state offices. Those elected officials then decide who they want in congress and have their own election for congress. Then congress decides who will be President, Vice President, Secretary of State, and Treasurer. Gosh, seems like there could be a disconnect somewhere in this mix, doesn't it?

I know that many (hopefully most) of the regions are pretty in touch with their members. I send out e-mails to our entire organization almost every week. If somebody has questions or concerns, they are answered right away by our officers. We meet at least once a month and usually have some regional activities in between. Books are wide open to anybody that asks, even though we only write a handful of checks every year.

When I was Treasurer for the last couple years I was told that we NEVER heard from the Zone director and nobody even knew who it was. I only remember our regional president going to one meeting, and that was a VOI planning meeting in Nashville. During this year as president of our region, I didn't even know who our Zone director was until I BEGGED for somebody (anybody) to contact me. And besides a brief flurry of e-mails for the Zone Rendezvous (which I could not attend because they scheduled the president's meeting early on a weekday some 600 miles away), I never hear a peep from National or Zone.

So, besides the financial summary which has been requested several times, what exactly does the National and Zone jobs entail? This is not even a slight dig towards anybody, including Joe Houss whom I greatly respect. It's just that the average VCA member, at least in this region, has ZERO contact with National or Zone offices. More importantly, the regional officers also have virtualy no contact. I actually got a phone call (a first) from the National Treasurer a month or so ago - right after the very publicized requests for financials were being summarily ignored. The call was a little baffling and even the caller didn't quite seem to know why he was calling. I couldn't help but think this was some construed call in direct response to the post on these boards.

And one thing you should note that is unfortunate: I would guess that less than 10% of the VCA membership even reads these boards or knows what is going on. This means that if the regional officers are doing at least a semi-decent job that the members are oblivious to the complete disconnect happening above them. I once had a nice chat with a couple VCA bigwigs at a VOI. They told me how great it was to be involved at a higher level and encouraged me to be more involved and aspire to such positions in the club. Mind you, besides running a region I was also tasked with doing 90% of the moderating of this site - which also yielded nothing but complaints with little support from above. When all hell would break loose here I would end up being the "mouthpiece" with everyone above strangely silent. It was for that reason I stepped down as moderator. I believe it was for similar reasons that Don Boston stepped down as president of his region.

The bottom line is that there is a very large chasm between the regions and National/Zone. I honestly don't know what their positions involve, but I have seen little if anything trickle down to the regions. We talk of "windbreakers" and the "country club" mentality of some facets of the VCA. It appears that some aspire to an even higher calling in a more exclusive club. And now we must face the very real challenge of even being able to communicate with them.

SOMEBODY has got to put this club back in the hands of their members and communicate with the same. In a nutshell, it gets tiring playing Danny Noonan to Judge Smails. I think it would be a lot more fun to be Al Czervik. And not to derail this thread, but here is an interesting quote from Caddyshack that seems strangely appropriate:

Danny Noonan: I'm gonna end up working in a lumberyard the rest of my life.
Ty Webb: What's wrong with lumber? I own two lumberyards.
Danny Noonan: I notice you don't spend too much time there.
Ty Webb: I'm not sure where they are.
 

Y2K5SRT

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Let's revolt... eliminate the existing ruling class... take over the VCA and rename it The Democratic Republic of Viper Owners.

First we have to get you to join your local VCA, which I believe is the awesome Kansas City club... ;)
 
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slaughterj

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Why don't you just start by getting the financials? I know the local prez has easy access to them (and has taken the time to understand them too).

Many members have tried (see the Official Request for Financials post in the Off-Topic section), but to no avail. The local prez does not have access to them, just to local finances - Janni does wonderfully with this.
 
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slaughterj

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There is a yearly meeting if the *** in January. If you really want the bylaws changed to make national offices elected by popular vote, then it's reasonable to bring forward then and ask for the change. Your Zone director or Director at large can bring this forward for you.

So Henry, as our Zone's Director at Large can do that? (BTW, who is our Zone Director?) Is there a particular process to getting this submitted? (I'll peruse the By-Laws.) I've found that any time I've ever had to have something handled by someone, that it doesn't have the same effect or get the same results as handling it by myself (no ding toward Henry intended, just a matter of how things work with an intermediary). I expect if I submitted such changes, that they'd get promptly disregarded, but I'll check into this further.
 

DEVILDOG

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Maybe VCA National modeled itself after the NYSE. Wouldn't mind seeing the financials myself...where's Elliot Spitzer? :confused: Let's see 5000 members at $100 each equals $500K per year plus Viper auctions at Barrett-Jackson plus profit from Viper drawings. Where does it go? Every member should be able to review a copy of the financials as requested...it is OUR club isn't it? I would like to know who we contact to get a copy.
 
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slaughterj

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Maybe VCA National modeled itself after the NYSE. Wouldn't mind seeing the financials myself...where's Elliot Spitzer? :confused: Let's see 5000 members at $100 each equals $500K per year plus Viper auctions at Barrett-Jackson plus profit from Viper drawings. Where does it go? Every member should be able to review a copy of the financials as requested...it is OUR club isn't it? I would like to know who we contact to get a copy.

As noted, check out the Official Request for Financials thread in the Off-Topic section. Under the By-Laws, the request is to be directed to the National Treasurer (which I did over a month ago via email and received no response whatsoever), and the financials are required to be provided under the By-Laws.

As for your posted #s, $100/member is correct, but $55/member goes to the region and (apparently) the $45 for nationals goes to the organization who does the magazine and runs the office (JR Thompson), leaving nationals' income to be what it gets from things like the raffles.
 

DEVILDOG

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Maybe VCA National modeled itself after the NYSE. Wouldn't mind seeing the financials myself...where's Elliot Spitzer? :confused: Let's see 5000 members at $100 each equals $500K per year plus Viper auctions at Barrett-Jackson plus profit from Viper drawings. Where does it go? Every member should be able to review a copy of the financials as requested...it is OUR club isn't it? I would like to know who we contact to get a copy.

As noted, check out the Official Request for Financials thread in the Off-Topic section. Under the By-Laws, the request is to be directed to the National Treasurer (which I did over a month ago via email and received no response whatsoever), and the financials are required to be provided under the By-Laws.

As for your posted #s, $100/member is correct, but $55/member goes to the region and (apparently) the $45 for nationals goes to the organization who does the magazine and runs the office (JR Thompson), leaving nationals' income to be what it gets from things like the raffles.

Thanks I'll make my request on the Off-Topic post. BTW, the Viper Mag and this Board I'm sure also take in advertising money. :smirk:
 

scottgf

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Im lousy at math but didnt they sell 2003 raffle tiks @ $100.00 per......isnt that over another $200k right there?
I dont have a beef with the VCA, just didnt know there was that much $$$ going around.
Cheers,
 

Frank Parise

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I don't understand the criticism. What am I missing?

The National Board of Directors elect the National Officers, just like what happens in every other corporation in America. Every DAL is elected by the VCA membership within the Zone, and every ZD is elected by the Regional Officers within the Zone. Every Regional Officer is elected by the membership within that Region. I don't see how you could get a more democratic process. Perhaps it is overly democratic to the point of fault.

As the membership grows in the future, the structure should become a real asset rather than the impediment some perceive it to be today. Cumbersome? To represent over 5,000 members, millions of dollars, and manage a relationship with DC, I think not.

As a VCA member, I find comfort in the fact that our national board members and officers have to meet criteria that are at least moderately stringent. Serving the club at the regional officer level first (which usually involves a membership of 50-150 members) is a reasonable prerequisite to representing 5,000 members.

There is generally no problem whatsoever getting involved/elected at the regional officer level. Most regions are starved for people willing to put in the necessary time to do a competent job. I'm sure that you can win office if you are competent, have time available, and are liked enough by the members who know you the best (presumably your fellow region members). If not, why should you even have a shot at a level of much higher responsibility?

I served as a regional president for two years and found it to be exhausting. I was burned out by the end of my 2-year term and have enjoyed being a normal member again. I respect the members who have gone through the process and are still willing to volunteer their valuable time to make things happen on behalf of the membership. If they aspire to become involved at the national level, all the better. However, even if they have put in their time and proven themselves as reasonably capable, it's no guarantee they will be elected beyond their region.
 

jimandela

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Joe Houss is a very very straight forward no BS guy.
I say email him and I am sure he will do everything in his power to help you with
the getting the statement ASAP.
And assist you in sorting through the other issues.
Have you talked to you yet?
If not please give him a shot! he has always been helpful.

Keep in mind under the old way of doing things.. this thread would have been removed
with no reason as to why! Case closed
But Joe came in and stopped that BS! :laugh:
Again, my 2 cent call or email Joe and go from there.

Huge Board Fan and VCA member
Jim
 

GR8_ASP

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The National Board of Directors elect the National Officers, just like what happens in every other corporation in America. Every DAL is elected by the VCA membership within the Zone, and every ZD is elected by the Regional Officers within the Zone. Every Regional Officer is elected by the membership within that Region. I don't see how you could get a more democratic process. Perhaps it is overly democratic to the point of fault.

I have noted that some on the national board have been there for years. Very little turnover. Our local club put in the bylaws a maximum time period of continuous presence on the local board. Is there a similar limit at the national level? I propose that all positions except the national president, vice president and treasurer be elected. And those positions be voted in by the local presidents. A term limit of two consecutive national terms should be imposed. Time to reduce the nepotism and favoritism and let the club membership have a hand in leading the club.

I also do not understand the role of the zone director. As they are appointed by the national committee they are responsive only to the national officers. I haven't heard diddly about what they actually do. Same for the directors at large. I have no idea who that is for our area. I question the need for either of those positions as I believe the local presidents, who are elected directly, could fill those roles nicely. Probably save the club quite a bit in travel expenses as well. Reading through the info on the members page it seems like the $45 intended for the national club, along with moneys earned via raffle, are used primarily for 3 things: The Viper Quarterly, insurance and travel expenses. I have absolutely no idea what the insurance is for as our local had to cancel a planned driving event because insurance was too expensive. And without the financial information we can only speculate how much monies are spent on the travel and entertainment aspects for our leaders.
 

OutThere

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"First we have to get you to join your local VCA, which I believe is the awesome Kansas City club... "

Chris - You're by FAR the only positive aspect I have ever recognized about the stupid-*** VCA other then this web site. And the value in this web site is the owners, which is brought out in spite of the useless, brown nosing, corrupt VCA.

I will join though if I am guaranteed title to national office. I'll even contribute $1,000 to "your favorite charity" if I am pushed through this comical process and elected.

And I promise to cut dues by 50% my first year!
 

SNKEBIT

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I really like this website & the people I've met at the local
runs & gatherings, Why is the upper-crust putting a bad taste
in my mouth!!!!!!! :confused:
 

jimandela

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Guys .. lets not turn this into a slam the VCA thread.
Because even though it maybe fustrating sometimes to get the
necessary paperwork.. i believe most guys in the VCA do for the VCA to the best of
there abilities.

And talk of shadyness i dont believe until there is proof of it!!!

So, do we deserve copies of whatever documents we want? Absolutely.
Should we slam the way that the VCA is run? NO! Not yet anyhow ;)
Lets get the documents and go from there.. fair enough?
I am sure the powers that be will chime in ... and step up with dapapers.
 

Y2K5SRT

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Guys .. lets not turn this into a slam the VCA thread.
Because even though it maybe fustrating sometimes to get the
necessary paperwork.. i believe most guys in the VCA do for the VCA to the best of there abilities.

I don't think this is a "slam the VCA" thread per se, but just a general commentary with how things are run and trying to get a better understanding of it. While the lack of providing a financial statement is probably the catalyst, the real question from many is "What really goes on behind the curtain?" If such a simple request can take so long and be so convoluted, then you can't help but wonder what the club is all about. While a little over half of your dues end up in the region, what happens to the other half? More importantly, how are our interests as members being represented at the National level? Do we have any say in what charities we support? Indeed, do we support any charities at the national level? Who decides where the VOI's will be held? Do we have any say or influence there? How much of our dues goes to underwrite the insurance policies for events? What kind of coverage does that cover?

You have had a couple current presidents that have noted that there is a very real disconnect between the regions and the zones/national. Indeed, I think that is one of the points which is brought up in the original post. And while Frank makes good points, I would also note that when he was regional president there were no "zones" and the national president just happened to be from his own region. I suspect that made it much easier to communicate than for those of us in smaller market areas with absolutely no representation on the National board. I had no say in who my directors were, nor was I even told who our zone director was after the election. The problem is a horrific lack of communications with the general membership. When the new presidents were introduced at VOI 7 in Nashville I missed that meeting too. Why? Because I was never told about it and never recieved a single thing in writing (itinerary) that mentioned it. It has been pretty much that same way ever since.

You make one comment that I would disagree with: "most guys in the VCA do for the VCA to the best of there (sic) abilities." Some are directors because they were asked to be in the positions, not because they want to be. I am not even sure that the National officers ran against anybody. Many of the regions work hard to communicate with their members and I don't see why it would be that tough at the national or zone levels. If I were the national president, I would simply turn to my Treasurer and require that a financial statement be produced within 14 days. Plenty of time. If the Treasurer said that they didn't have enough resources, then assign them a couple and pay them out of the treasury if necessary. Treasurer doesn't have enough time? Then find another one that can make the time for the office in which they hold. Likewise for ALL of the people in these offices. In the Kansas City Region we have already replaced our Treasurer and Secretary with people that have the capabilities and the desire to make those positions work. I honestly don't know what drives them at the national or zone levels. We have little or no visibility into that at the regional level.

This is not about bashing the VCA, but simply some legitimate questions being raised about how the organization is run and how that affects the membership as a whole. I enjoy the VCA tremendously and it was my very first Viper "upgrade" before I even got my first GTS back in 1999. Nevertheless, I would like to see it be more open and be more of a true car club that is run by its members for its members. I have a tough time seeing that right now, as do many others.

One final comment from the peanut gallery: I have preached for a long time that if you want to change things you have to do so from within. Those that CONSTANTLY throw rocks yet never get personally involved shouldn't expect to have everything go their way. We have a few folks in our region that complain that we are too "car focused" and don't spend enough time on the social aspects of the club. And yet when we have social functions guess who doesn't bother to show up? Yep, the same complainers. I applaud slaughterj for going beyond "rock throwing" and showing a genuine desire to influence the club from within. I only hope he is successful in his quest.

Chris
 

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