Gen V ACR Needed For Ring Time

[JG01]

New GTR just took our ring time with a 7:08.

SRT

we need our GEN V ACR to bring it back home.

 

[viper04]

Anymore detail?

 

[TrackAire]

Saw this in car and driver:

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/20...aign=Feed:+caranddriver/blog+(Car+and+Driver)

7:08 is very fast for a car of that weight. Congrats to Nissan if it is true.

George

 

[ViperSmith]

The new ACR will be near that in price. IMHO the TA is the affordable ACR, be prepared to drop $200 like this GTR.

Impressive.

 

[ACRucrazy]

Guess we need to wait until 2015 to see what a real production model will do at the ring. Until then..

 

[Nine Ball]

The track edition ACR went 7:03, over 2 yrs ago. No nannies, with a man trans. Just sayin'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUK2ZmDz7eo

 

[ACRucrazy]

And in my opinion that needs to be the benchmark for the next ACR.. If it can't be beat, don't go.

 

[Boxer12]

The G5 ACR with CF tub, DCT, CF rotors, Motons, Pirelli Trofeo's, CF buckets, etc. will definitely be capable of beating the ACR-X time and even the 918's time with a recent F1 driver at the helm...maybe Kimi will be avail? Its a better car all around...(in my mind anyway).

 

[Vic]

You're supposed to be enamored of special hues of blue..

CF tub, CC rotors and CF buckets, DCT...That's just crazy talk!

 

[Boxer12]

Ralph says its going to be 'radical'...do you think he is merely referring to a new ACR only "Radical Blue" color scheme? Will Ralph and Dick and the guys be still talking about the G4 ACR Records at their retirement parties someday, or is there better cars yet to come? Maybe my imagination is running a little wild?

 

[kdaviper]

Shoot, The TA could beat this time... I wonder how long Nissan spent at the Nurburgring just to set this one? Imagine if they'd have kept the ACR at the nurburgring for a month instead of just an afternoon...

 

[TRACKDAY]

Once the Gen V ACR is developed and produced, I'll be waiting with excited anticipation for it to go to the Ring.

I'm hoping it will equal or beat the ACR-X time of 7:03, but that will require very aggressive and innovative powertrain, chasis, suspension and tire improvements.

Time will tell........

 

[VENOM V]

Ralph says its going to be 'radical'...do you think he is merely referring to a new ACR only "Radical Blue" color scheme? Will Ralph and Dick and the guys be still talking about the G4 ACR Records at their retirement parties someday, or is there better cars yet to come? Maybe my imagination is running a little wild?

My concern is that it may come down to budget. Given the budget, they can go radical. But given a shoestring, they'll have to be practical and get as much out of it as they can with limited dollars. Clearly Chrysler hasn't put much money into the SRT program, just look at the marketing fiascos. The car is amazing, but they had hiccups in most of the rest of the program. Those hiccups are a sign of a tiny team trying to accomplish as much as they can with limited dollars.

 

[Allan]

Shoot, The TA could beat this time... I wonder how long Nissan spent at the Nurburgring just to set this one? Imagine if they'd have kept the ACR at the nurburgring for a month instead of just an afternoon...

...........I wonder.
Remember the ACR's have a downforce advantage in the higher speed turns over the TA or any other Viper, or probably any other production car at all.

 

[Allan]

Once the Gen V ACR is developed and produced, I'll be waiting with excited anticipation for it to go to the Ring.

I'm hoping it will equal or beat the ACR-X time of 7:03, but that will require very aggressive and innovative powertrain, chasis, suspension and tire improvements.

Time will tell........

Beating the ACR-X time in a 'street legal' version of the car will be a tall task.
I have been on track with many ACR's and two ACR-X's ....and all the other common fast crap out there (ZR1,Z06,GTR,F430,458,GT,911 turbo, 911 GT3.....whatever)
Granted, we are just a bunch of bozos doing HPDE having fun (non competitive), but you find out real quick about what cars are track monsters and what aren't.
The ACR-X Vipers are so unbelievably fast and are so much more dominant than anything else, they make regular ACR's seem slow.

If the gen V ACR is quicker on the track than the ACR-X, and is still 'streetable', that will be amazing.

 

[ACRucrazy]

My thoughts on the ACR-X and Gen V ACR and the Gen IV ACR are this.

ACR-X. Track monster? What does it have that the Gen IV ACR does not?

- Slicks
- 640 HP
- Weight Redux
- A bit more downforce
- Different front rotors/pads with ducting
- Chassis/cage/fuel cell

Ok. So of that what can be "easily" adopted to the Gen V

- Already has 640hp
- Weight redux "built in" to the Gen V, how much further could a "********" ACR take it?
- Downforce could easily be adopted.. With the info they have from the GTS-R how can the aero be improved for the Ring?
- Brakes/Rotors already on the TA, can they be improved for an ACR?

What does the Gen V need to beat he ACR-X?

-Tires. It does not need slicks to run a fast time. The Porsche/McLaren/GT-R @ Ring & AMG Black @ Laguna Seca proved that. It needs good tires on a good car. Sport Cup 2 avail for the Gen V ACR?
-A good chassis

So in my bench racing keyboard warrior mind says if the Gen V ACR can come out with some good tires such as the supposedly awesome SC2, the Gen V already has:

- better gearing
- years of development at its advantage
- the same HP as a starting point
- same weight as a base
- same brakes
- aero development from the ACR/GTS-R along with their data from the last trip to the Ring

All while while giving up what? A cage? Really that is the only thing I see the ACR-X having an advantage over a Gen V ACR. Yes I understand what a cage does to the chassis, but the hope/thought is all of the other advantages the Gen V could have going for it can outweigh the cage in the ACR-X.

Sure the ACR-X slicks helped, but if other cars are running faster than the ACR & ACR-X on street tires, the only reason a Gen V ACR would not be able to beat those current fast times is because the people making the decisions say "we can't"

I have no doubt a Gen V ACR could beat the 7:03 and do so without the $1,000,000 Porsche price tag.

 

[Boxer12]

ACR-X also has upgraded and stiffer shocks, adjustable & stiffer sway bars, and I suspect billet steering bushings and a few other tidbits (A/C delete? Shifter?)...I have put a truckload of ACR-X parts upgrading my ACR. Also, slicks v PSC will make a sec (at least) difference per mile alone. Don't forget driver...an FIA Gt1 Champ Pro with tons of sim & training time went out in the GTR and knocked 16 sec off the car's old time. In short, there is lots of room for improvement over the Gen IV ACR time, so we should be shooting for beating the time of 6:57. Bean counters be damned! jmo

 

[TrackAire]

ACR-X also has upgraded and stiffer shocks, adjustable & stiffer sway bars, and I suspect billet steering bushings and a few other tidbits (A/C delete? Shifter?)...I have put a truckload of ACR-X parts upgrading my ACR. Also, slicks v PSC will make a sec (at least) difference per mile alone. Don't forget driver...an FIA Gt1 Champ Pro with tons of sim & training time went out in the GTR. In short, there is lots of room for improvement over the Gen IV ACR time, so we should be shooting for beating the time of 6:57. Bean counters be damned! jmo

My thoughts exactly.....throw some money towards the project and get it done. A halo car means more than a bean counter will ever be able to calculate. Hell, Ford is still milking the Shelby wins at Le Mans and Mustang models for who knows how long. They took a chance, spent the money and will forever live in petrol heads hearts. Bean counters be damned.

Biggest problem is the next 5 or 6 months is not the best weather at the Ring for setting records. Seems September is a pretty good month. Who knows what car company has multiple dates already booked.

It would be epic if somebody like Michelin sponsored a "Ring" week where all major street legal car manufacturers show up, prove who is the fastest with a real audience to witness and accurate (read truthful) timing. I bet they'd be able to sell a crap load of tickets for people to enjoy the week of records and festivities.

Cheers,
George

 

[Nine Ball]

It would be a lot easier to push the case vs the bean counters, if sales were better. They could just make the GT3-R into a street legal version, but it would likely cost more than the current GT3-R does. Then people would just complain about price again.

BTW, regarding shocks, the Gen 3/4 parts are a direct fit on the Gen 5. So, the ACR-X shocks would be readily available for the Gen 5.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Very cool discussion. It would be interesting to see how a G5 would perform with the G4 ACR/ACR-X bits including MPSC's. Suprised it hasn't been attempted yet by some of the ********* track rats or tuner shops. These kind of mods wont throw a CEL and it seems like it would indeed make the car much faster around a track without touching the engine.

 

[viper vince]

IMOP it dont think Chrysler will build an ACR because of the lack of sales of the current car. The bean counters will get involved and probably say look you cannot sell the current car what is our return on investment? I think the dealers would be stuck with the current inventory. The dealers would have to discount their current stock because the ACR would be in GTS pricing and they built more GTS that SRTs.

 

[PDCjonny]

I don't see how Fiat/SRT would ever be able to justify the costs of building a full blown Gen V ACR and bring It to the Ring with all the expense
that entails to sell maybe a hundred cars. Everything they do is on a shoestring budget how can anyone see that getting green lighted.
This is the company that can't (or won't budget) a single TV ad.

 

[Boxer12]

I think a balzy record setting ACR would sell more cars than anything else SRT could do. BTW, I see a lot of TV ads for SRT (with Viper in them), they are aired during the races.

Snakebitten, I wonder the same thing. Why don't G5 owners mod up the cars for the track? Very few have even put a proper track tire on the car. I don't get it. You can build an ACR out of aftermarket parts right now (see the SEMA thread), just don't mess with the powertrain (although Woodhouse is putting headers on the car now..others soon to follow...CEL be damned!).

In my mind, we still have the Ring record because the two cars that beat us are prototypes. We don't have to worry about seeing a Nismo on the local country club circuit for a while yet. Until they hit dealer floors, they are not legit. So next spring or early summer will be ok. Let's just get on the job now!

 

[bluestreak]

Good point boxer. A car that isn't available to the public can't have any records for production cars, because it's not in production.


Would be great if SRT waited until right before the Nismo was to ship and went over there and beat up on it. That would be the awesomeness. I would totally abandon my Corvette fetish for that.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Boxer12 agreed especially on the Ring record subject. Now knowing it was a prototype GTR, then the production ACR record still stands to me too. Looks like you still need a specialty car like a Radical , prototype a la NISMO, racecar like 599xx or million dollar cars like P918, Mc P1 to beat the ACR's time. It really was an incredible car still ahead of its time. SRT may have to forego a "radical" G5 ACR due to lackluster sales [bad business case] and put out an ACR more along the lines of the G4 ACR instead. A G5 ACR more along the lines of the G4 ACR would still be a very very fast track car even though it would disappoint most of us hopin for that sick Viper GT3 shape. I got totally taken in by that Viper GT3 shape for the G5 ACR too.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure a set of ACR/ACRX shocks or Moton CS, some MPSC's and some of that VRacing CF aero bits, as already mentioned, would make G5 GTS or SRT Viper beat a TA around a track pretty good. Not to mention most any other non-hyper car out there. If you own an SRT model then you could conceivably have an ACR-like Viper for less than the 16-20k premium of a TA over the base SRT price. Love that TA orange though.

 

[kdaviper]

I think a balzy record setting ACR would sell more cars than anything else SRT could do. BTW, I see a lot of TV ads for SRT (with Viper in them), they are aired during the races.

Snakebitten, I wonder the same thing. Why don't G5 owners mod up the cars for the track? Very few have even put a proper track tire on the car. I don't get it. You can build an ACR out of aftermarket parts right now (see the SEMA thread), just don't mess with the powertrain (although Woodhouse is putting headers on the car now..others soon to follow...CEL be damned!).

In my mind, we still have the Ring record because the two cars that beat us are prototypes. We don't have to worry about seeing a Nismo on the local country club circuit for a while yet. Until they hit dealer floors, they are not legit. So next spring or early summer will be ok. Let's just get on the job now!

Yes, there are aftermarket aero kits for the viper, but are they OE quality? Do they have the 7:1 downforce to drag ratio as the ACR's bits? will the epoxy resin they use degrade quickly in the presence of UV light? How are they balanced from front to rear, and are they adjustable and come with recommended settings for different tracks?

 

[VENOM V]

The only aero I'm putting on my car are the factory option carbon aero parts. Wind tunnel tested and dialed in. Not sure if I would trust something from the aftermarket that is not a true engineered, tested solution. Plus, there is something satisfying about being able to drive a 100% stock Viper on a road course and be one of the fastest cars on the track, and the fastest stock car. The only mods I would consider are brake pads, SST lines, high temp brake fluid, aggressive alignment and of course tires. I'm about to invest in a 6 point harness and HANS as well, but that's all. The Gen V is so good stock, all it's really lacking is the carbon aero package and better tires.

My Camaro is the one that I don't mind modding- I have a 71" APR wing and splitter on order for that, and I have already done the engine, suspension, R compounds and a couple of brake upgrades. It's damned fast for an inexpensive, heavy muscle car.

Maybe my pockets will be deep enough in a few years to replace my Camaro with another Viper as my primary track car, perhaps a used one. I could see upgrading that one with mods such as MCS coilovers and some big aero. Doubt I would be able to afford an ACR, but that would be the ultimate. Maybe I should start playing the lottery, LOL.

 

[Paul Hawker]

IMOP it dont think Chrysler will build an ACR because of the lack of sales of the current car. The bean counters will get involved and probably say look you cannot sell the current car what is our return on investment? I think the dealers would be stuck with the current inventory. The dealers would have to discount their current stock because the ACR would be in GTS pricing and they built more GTS that SRTs.

I believe that SRT must build an ACR, just because of the slow sales of the current car. When they last released the ACR it indeed breathed fresh life into a strugging Viper production line. It turned out to be a huge hit. Everybody got all excited again, and lots of people got out their checkbooks. It was the crown on the crown. It made the whole world sit up an take notice. It dominated the track experiences. While not everybody bought one, EVERYBODY WANTED ONE.

For the same reason a convertible should also be moved into the production. It costs not all that much to bring the car into the lineup, as it is most already slotted down the line, and just needs to be ramped up quicker. (Summer buying season is just 6 months away)

Standing still is not what Vipers do best. Conner Avenue has knocked it out of the park before, and the Viper Nation is always looking for something just a bit more special than even the already special standard cars.

Of course there has been some resistance to pricing, and maybe attention must be paid to decontenting some of these cars to reach a compelling price point. A few less speakers, body hugging fabric seats, only put carbon fiber where it offers a signicant performance enhancement (the original plastic was fine). Make the cars with a little more animal arrogance, and something that will make women and young children quake in fear. Bet they sell a bunch.

 

[VENOM V]

I believe that SRT must build an ACR, just because of the slow sales of the current car. When they last released the ACR it indeed breathed fresh life into a strugging Viper production line. It turned out to be a huge hit. Everybody got all excited again, and lots of people got out their checkbooks. It was the crown on the crown. It made the whole world sit up an take notice. It dominated the track experiences. While not everybody bought one, EVERYBODY WANTED ONE.

For the same reason a convertible should also be moved into the production. It costs not all that much to bring the car into the lineup, as it is most already slotted down the line, and just needs to be ramped up quicker. (Summer buying season is just 6 months away)

Standing still is not what Vipers do best. Conner Avenue has knocked it out of the park before, and the Viper Nation is always looking for something just a bit more special than even the already special standard cars.

Of course there has been some resistance to pricing, and maybe attention must be paid to decontenting some of these cars to reach a compelling price point. A few less speakers, body hugging fabric seats, only put carbon fiber where it offers a signicant performance enhancement (the original plastic was fine). Make the cars with a little more animal arrogance, and something that will make women and young children quake in fear. Bet they sell a bunch.

I like the way you think, Paul. I think with the TA's launch being a big hit with the press, it shows that people respond to ******** performance models. And I see previous generation Viper owners praising the TA more than any Gen V to date. ACR is the natural progression. I personally hope to own a Gen V ACR one day, if the mighty Viper Gods smile on my bank account LOL.

 

[Boxer12]

No doubt, if you buy aftermarket parts there is a bit extra due diligence involved and I am not promoting anything, but everyone waiting for the new ACR and nobody really doing anything extraordinary at the track is holdin the Viper rep back...just sayin somebody needs to step up to the plate. One record is not enough. Someone take a T/A, or put suspension, aero and tires on your Gen V, and go break some records!