got screwed by the dealer and arrow rebuild must read

[v10sloboy]

i recently bought a 94 rt10 with 32000 miles the engine was built by arrow rebuid 4800 miles ago. the #5 rod bearing spun and destroyed the crankshaft. the engine had good oil pressure and also was not abused. i just bought the car, and new the old owner had taken good care of the car, it is flawless. anyway brought the car to the dealer and they told me that since the car was out of warr by time and that i was the new owner that i was not covered at all. this is woodstock dodge in atlanta area. he told me that he spoke with the rep and that he said pretty much too bad no help from us. after talking to the manager of arrow rebuilds they offered no help just the idea of me paying between 7 and 10k for them to rebuild the motor they have already destroyed. i know that a lot of you trust arrow fully but beware my motor did not just destroy the #5 rod bearing for nothing. i am ase master tech and also have been in the auto industry my whole life. the oil level was fine and the motor has had every service done at the dealer untill i just purchased the car three weeks ago. the engine after i took the oil pan off destroyed the crank and the whole engine more than likely damaged from the metal.on a good note there is hope for people like me because i found a man who parts out wrecked vipers for a living. he sold me a 95 motor with less than 15k on it for 3500 shipped plus my old core.the name of this man is paul scharf, with a warr on it. this man not only sent me pics of the motor in the car he also gave me the phone number of the prevois owner so that i could find out about the car. i talked to the previous owner which was a very nice man. he gave me the whole story on the car everthing matched up perfect with pauls story. i have not gotten the motor yet but have a really good feeling about paul and feel that he is a honest and trustworty man. if any of you need parts i would highly recommend that you call him he has everything you need,he told me that he strated this in 1995 that is a long time anyway his number is 1 800 338 4002. not trying to make a bad name for anyone just laying out the facts and how i was treated by dodge and arrow thanks

 

[Bad_Byte]

Very sad to hear about your bad experience. Fortunately you're not entirely at the mercy of a dealer, meaning you know how to turn a wrench plus you found Paul. I've dealt with him before and found him to be very reputable. Good luck and don't let this bad experience get you down I'm sure fun times are just around the corner. Where are you located, maybe some other folks in your area could lend a hand with the r&r?

 

[v10sloboy]

thanks i would love a hand by the vca georgia members that know a lot about the car

 

[got one]

Yup...arrow rebuilds aren't what they used to be. I wouldn't send my motor there even if it was under warranty.

 

[IEATVETS]

Sorry about the troubles you are having. I know when I bought my car I never even looked at buying from a "private" seller, only from a dealer. Why? For the warranty. Sure the warranty can be pricey but considering what parts cost for these cars seems like a little bit of peace of mind. $3500 for a motor with 15 g's on the ticker is a hell of price though. Good luck.

 

[Qualitywires.com]

heck,

for the amount the dealer wanted you could have rebuilt your engine with a forged crank and upgraded pistons for less.

 

[Vic]

Sorry to hear of your troubles...Glad you found a reasonable answer....

Can you tell me what a spun bearing sounds like? Is it at first a squeaking noise? I've got some kinda shrill squeaky sound coming from the tranny tunnel, under hard acceleration. Its not really loud (yet), its just starting to happen. It only happens for a couple of seconds, when I'm ******* the gas in 1st or 2nd. When the car gets moving, the sound goes away. Maybe the clutch is slipping?

I've been "babying" it until I get it fixed.

I've used nothing but Mobil 1 (red cap, 15-50?) since the car was new, and followed the excrutiatingly long initial break in schedule from Arrow. (Limited rpm's in stages, until 1000 miles on the odo)

 

[Viper Scot]

Yup...arrow rebuilds aren't what they used to be. I wouldn't send my motor there even if it was under warranty.

I'm slightly concerned now as the car I've just bought has about 850 miles on an Arrow rebuilt engine!! Should I be concerned and what should I be looking out for? Also, I'm under the impression that the warranty on the engine transfers from the previous owner to me....

 

[Marc Lublin]

John,
Did you look carefully at the other rod bearings? I would be interested to know if you can see any wear in the top bearings on the other rods.

 

[ACELLR8]

Sorry to hear of your troubles...Glad you found a reasonable answer....

Can you tell me what a spun bearing sounds like? Is it at first a squeaking noise? I've got some kinda shrill squeaky sound coming from the tranny tunnel, under hard acceleration. Its not really loud (yet), its just starting to happen. It only happens for a couple of seconds, when I'm ******* the gas in 1st or 2nd. When the car gets moving, the sound goes away. Maybe the clutch is slipping?

I've been "babying" it until I get it fixed.

I've used nothing but Mobil 1 (red cap, 15-50?) since the car was new, and followed the excrutiatingly long initial break in schedule from Arrow. (Limited rpm's in stages, until 1000 miles on the odo)

I had a spun rod bearing on my 95 about 2 years ago. Basically the sound was just a slight tapping, not really a knocking noise just a slight tap. I first thought it was a lifter or a valve until I pulled the oil pan. Spun a bearing on a old Jeep CJ that I had and it sounded like someone threw a brick in the dryer. I think it dependings on how many bearings are spun and to what degree the bearings are wore out.

 

[viper spray]

Sorry to hear of your troubles...Glad you found a reasonable answer....

Can you tell me what a spun bearing sounds like? Is it at first a squeaking noise? I've got some kinda shrill squeaky sound coming from the tranny tunnel, under hard acceleration. Its not really loud (yet), its just starting to happen. It only happens for a couple of seconds, when I'm ******* the gas in 1st or 2nd. When the car gets moving, the sound goes away. Maybe the clutch is slipping?

I've been "babying" it until I get it fixed.

I've used nothing but Mobil 1 (red cap, 15-50?) since the car was new, and followed the excrutiatingly long initial break in schedule from Arrow. (Limited rpm's in stages, until 1000 miles on the odo)

Sounds like clutch/flywheel time to me............

 

[Rocket65C]

I don't think many dealers are going to be very sympathetic with an 11 year old car after it drives off their lot. What I gather, is you have an issue with Arrow, since an engine they rebuilt only lasted 4800 miles? But most techs and rebuild facilities don't transfer warranties, do they? So, they screw one up, but luckily for them (from their point of view) they don't have to pay for it. Did you think the warranty from Arrow would be transferable? Also, for those of us who aren't master technicians, why did the #5 rod bearing spin? Was it not seated properly, or did the bearing fail (i.e., faulty metallurgy, therefore not really a fault of the builder per se but a problem with the parts manufacturer)? Could you prove that it wasn't because of abuse from the previous owner (I know you don't believe that to be the case, but if Arrow alleges this, what would you say)? BTW, do you have a web address for Paul Scarf? Thanks, and good luck

 

[womsterr]

Spun a rod on mine too..I'm also in Atlanta...Kennesaw...just down the road from Woodstock. You went to the wrong dealer - one. I don't even think those guys have a viper tech do they?

I brought mine to Tom Sessions in NC.

I spun a rod in my 04 SRT. Why? Well...I can tell you I've been told that DCX has changed the p/n for the rod bearing to a new trimetal design. Wonder why? Remember, Arrow is only allowed by Chrysler to put it back to factory spec on a warranty rebuild.

Also...you say 4,800 miles..but how old was that rebuild. You have NO idea how the car was drivin by the previous owner. If it experienced an oil pump failure, was over revved or otherwise run out of spec.

The fella up above says rebuilds at Arrow aren't what they used to be - I can't agree with him. I know my experience with them was fantastic. For all we know the rebuild was done 10 years ago.

Anyway - I'm just down the road from you. Shoot me a PM if you'd like to touch base since I've just been through this on my own...

 

[PDCjonny]

In New York with the lemon laws on used cars, a major engine failure like that would be under warranty from the dealer, they HAVE to for 30-90 days depending on the car. I assume you don't have those type of lemon laws.

 

[ronviper]

Is this the GREAT ARROW that told Paolo all what was wrong with his motor. I guess what goes around comes around. Sorry to read about your loss however you just proved ARROW is not the end all.

 

[JGK95]

RonViper,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Arrow did NOT build Paolo's Motor they reviewed the motor post detination for what was wrong with it and reported why it failed. They DID NOT build his motor. How can you tie Arrow to a motor rebuild that they did not do; I'm still trying to figure that one out.

Respectfully,

Jay K.

 

[VIPER BAZ UK]

i recently bought a 94 rt10 with 32000 miles the engine was built by arrow rebuid 4800 miles ago. the #5 rod bearing spun and destroyed the crankshaft. the engine had good oil pressure and also was not abused. i just bought the car, and new the old owner had taken good care of the car, it is flawless. anyway brought the car to the dealer and they told me that since the car was out of warr by time and that i was the new owner that i was not covered at all. this is woodstock dodge in atlanta area. he told me that he spoke with the rep and that he said pretty much too bad no help from us. after talking to the manager of arrow rebuilds they offered no help just the idea of me paying between 7 and 10k for them to rebuild the motor they have already destroyed. i know that a lot of you trust arrow fully but beware my motor did not just destroy the #5 rod bearing for nothing. i am ase master tech and also have been in the auto industry my whole life. the oil level was fine and the motor has had every service done at the dealer untill i just purchased the car three weeks ago. the engine after i took the oil pan off destroyed the crank and the whole engine more than likely damaged from the metal.on a good note there is hope for people like me because i found a man who parts out wrecked vipers for a living. he sold me a 95 motor with less than 15k on it for 3500 shipped plus my old core.the name of this man is paul scharf, with a warr on it. this man not only sent me pics of the motor in the car he also gave me the phone number of the prevois owner so that i could find out about the car. i talked to the previous owner which was a very nice man. he gave me the whole story on the car everthing matched up perfect with pauls story. i have not gotten the motor yet but have a really good feeling about paul and feel that he is a honest and trustworty man. if any of you need parts i would highly recommend that you call him he has everything you need,he told me that he strated this in 1995 that is a long time anyway his number is 1 800 338 4002. not trying to make a bad name for anyone just laying out the facts and how i was treated by dodge and arrow thanks

Sorry to here about your bad news ..
My head gasgets went on my 94 RT, arrow supplied all the parts here to the UK,But had Chamberlain racing do the work..
Paul is a fantastic guy always helpful and genuine and no VIPER TAX!!!!!!
MOD IT WHILE YOUR THERE cam and stuff
Baz

 

[ronviper]

JGK95 if you read some of the things said about clearances, line bore etc. it was not very flattering to the previous builder. The impression left is if they did the work that would not have happened. Arrow builds 450hp motors of which some have problems while the other builds up to 2000hp motors. I am sure both will have their issues but the report on a motor with detonation and lots of damage was not a fair accessment in my opinion.

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

JGK95 if you read some of the things said about clearances, line bore etc. it was not very flattering to the previous builder. The impression left is if they did the work that would not have happened. Arrow builds 450hp motors of which some have problems while the other builds up to 2000hp motors. I am sure both will have their issues but the report on a motor with detonation and lots of damage was not a fair accessment in my opinion.

That statement could be a little confusing. There were statements thrown around elewhere that Arrow had said this or that about the prior builder. Those were cleared up by a conversation the prior builder had directly with Arrow, wherein Arrow completely cleared the prior builder and stated that the failure was due to other causes, i.e. detonation and abuse. The prior builder has never had a failure on one of his motors and for anyone to even mildly suggest it might be the prior builders fault after over two years of very severe duty with no problems and then an attempt to develop and test a Twin Turbo motor by the owner himself on the same engine was widely regarded as not being a reasonable theory.

 

[v10sloboy]

it had good oil pressure and the oil level was fine. i know the old owner and the car was not raggedout. found today while looking at the car that the #5 rod bearing looked funny, after further looking at it the bearing seems to put in upside downthe oil gap does not line up with the rod slot. this is my good guess as to why the rod went to hell. by the way i will give them credit the other 9 rods are ok.

 

[Pat_L_96GTS]

If the bearing spun it may not be in the correct position, looking like it was installed wrong. Bearings can spin from many factors and sometimes you can't determine cause.

 

[Simms]

John, I am friends with the previous owner of the 95 engine you are getting. The car was mint and never abused. Good luck with the build up.

 

[v10sloboy]

took the tranny out today. it was not that bad the bellhouseing was a *****. the motor is looking not so good may be a real pain in the ass. any tips would be great

 

[Gerald Levin]

John, Buying a viper and losing the engine in a matter of weeks sux to the max. If this car was brought to a dealer prior to the sale and examined by a viper tech, would this problem have been detected? Would a compression test have detected this?

 

[v10sloboy]

I am a master ase and infiniti specialist. the motor was not knocking 600 miles ago when i bought it. the noise was sudden and came fast. hopefully this will work out to my advantage in the long run. paul called me and said that he saw a little leak near the headgaskets on the motor i bought, so he offered to pay for half on a complete top end gasket kit. man this guy is great, i said sure and told him that i would go ahead and pay him now and he said just wait untill you get it and we will settle up. can you believe that he trusts me without even knowing me great guy