HAS DC CANCELLED THE VIPER?

[94RT10Ohio]

Answer to the original question. No.

 

[Fast Freddy]

(gen3) but from a looks perspective, it doesn't have that heart-rate increasing "automotive artwork" look to it

this is what killed viper sales. they could have left the body alone and changed the internals only & sold more gen3s that way then with the body redesign.

agreed

and with that said i might add that the only car that i have seen built since the gen 2 viper coupe that looks better is the shelby GR-1. daimler-chrysler is not the only stupid people on this planet. apparently ford is even more stupid. not only has ford ended production of their GT with just a mere 4000 made over the last 2 years but this here shelby GR-1 is the sexiest car on the planet and they won't put it into production

 

[bluestreak]

I dont see why some would think it cost anywhere near the 90k that has been charged on the viper. There has been a premium on the viper since it's onset and the rebates on the SRT's only confirms what the Viper would have been selling for if there was no premium. Dodge may not be making much on the viper because of it's limited production but up until the debacle with the increased production numbers has not lost money on the car.

More than just the rebates... how about the weekend getaway to Germany if you buy a Viper?

LOL they are doiong that for real? I hadnt heard that one.

 

[bluestreak]

The looks of the GEN III have nothing at all to do with the decline of the viper. The problem lies in the cost which is 10-15% more than the GEN II. It also lies in the fact that the vipers are not presold units anymore, and the higher productions umbers. Not to mention that american car buyers are more concerned with SPEED, and the GEN III does not deliver much more if any IN A STRAIGHT LINE which up until recently has been what american cars did.


OH yeah and the Z06 was a knife in the back as well, when the viper used to be the fastest car you could buy here, and the fact that it's cheaper. The corvette is the trump card for DC. They have to play their real hand now, making less , faster vipers, for a more realistic price. and unfortunately they cant do that until the old cars leave the lots or they may in fact take a hit.

 

[kcobean]

The looks of the GEN III have nothing at all to do with the decline of the viper. The problem lies in the cost which is 10-15% more than the GEN II. It also lies in the fact that the vipers are not presold units anymore, and the higher productions umbers. Not to mention that american car buyers are more concerned with SPEED, and the GEN III does not deliver much more if any IN A STRAIGHT LINE which up until recently has been what american cars did.


OH yeah and the Z06 was a knife in the back as well, when the viper used to be the fastest car you could buy here, and the fact that it's cheaper. The corvette is the trump card for DC. They have to play their real hand now, making less , faster vipers, for a more realistic price. and unfortunately they cant do that until the old cars leave the lots or they may in fact take a hit.

A few questions:

1. Is the Vette 'made to order' or is built in pre-sold units. I would think the latter.

2. How are sales for the Vette now. Based on how many are on the road, it looks like they are pretty good.

3. Is Chevy suffering at the hands of their manufacturing math like Chrysler?

It seems to me that if the "pre-sold unit" issue were the only factor, then the Vette would be suffering as well. Even at bargain basement prices, the Viper isn't moving in comparison to the Vette. It can't be only because there are just too many of them. They are still built in smaller numbers than the vette.

People who might opt for the Viper at similar prices to the vette are still opting for the Vette. I don't know why that is, but I suspect some of it has to do with the Viper2000 picture posted a page back.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

The looks of the GEN III have nothing at all to do with the decline of the viper. The problem lies in the cost which is 10-15% more than the GEN II. It also lies in the fact that the vipers are not presold units anymore, and the higher productions umbers. Not to mention that american car buyers are more concerned with SPEED, and the GEN III does not deliver much more if any IN A STRAIGHT LINE which up until recently has been what american cars did.


OH yeah and the Z06 was a knife in the back as well, when the viper used to be the fastest car you could buy here, and the fact that it's cheaper. The corvette is the trump card for DC. They have to play their real hand now, making less , faster vipers, for a more realistic price. and unfortunately they cant do that until the old cars leave the lots or they may in fact take a hit.

The styling of the GenIII while not bad, is no where near the radical beauty of the GenII. Being that the majority of buyers of any sports car make/model are more poser than performance, styling is the major issue.

Additionally however, the economy changed considerably near the end of the GenII era which BTW the last GenIIs weren't blowing off the showroom floors either.

 

[bluestreak]

A few questions:

1. Is the Vette 'made to order' or is built in pre-sold units. I would think the latter.

2. How are sales for the Vette now. Based on how many are on the road, it looks like they are pretty good.

3. Is Chevy suffering at the hands of their manufacturing math like Chrysler?

It seems to me that if the "pre-sold unit" issue were the only factor, then the Vette would be suffering as well. Even at bargain basement prices, the Viper isn't moving in comparison to the Vette. It can't be only because there are just too many of them. They are still built in smaller numbers than the vette.

People who might opt for the Viper at similar prices to the vette are still opting for the Vette. I don't know why that is, but I suspect some of it has to do with the Viper2000 picture posted a page back.

1 The vette does not cost 90k and is the fastest car on the road sub 150k (ford gt). I promise you the GEN II would not have sold any better with a faster, cheaper corvette if it was market and produced the same way.

2 Again the vette doesnt cost 90k, And there is still a veryu limited number produced in the first year. Demand has EXCEEDED supply!

3 Chevy is struggling at other things (notably staying in business)

Once again presold is NOT the only issue!!!!!! I listed several but you only seem to have seen one. The viper has been exposed by the vette and people are not gonna buy it with a new version coming out. If you think for one second that it's not selling because it doesnt look more like a GEN II you are out of your mind.

 

[PatentLaw]

In my mind, it seems the order has been given to make the halo car a true halo car. The back room deals have been made. Money is being spent. Powertrains are being developed. There was just not enough time to do anything for the show.

Give these guys (the engineers) a chance. It is not easy to design a top notch vehicle. Patience, grasshopper, patience......

Car must come in at an expected cost of 80k. No more.

 

[Mccarlin]

I hope there is no Gen IV viper It makes my GenII all that much more valuable.

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

In my mind, it seems the order has been given to make the halo car a true halo car. The back room deals have been made. Money is being spent. Powertrains are being developed. There was just not enough time to do anything for the show.

Give these guys (the engineers) a chance. It is not easy to design a top notch vehicle. Patience, grasshopper, patience......

Car must come in at an expected cost of 80k. No more.

Plus they have to deal with this unruly crowd once their done.

Could some of you anti-Gen 3ers tell me how ugly you feel the srt/10 and Coupe are compared too other vehicles because I don't see it. Even when I had my GTS, I always wanted to some day own an SRT/10.

Are Vettes better looking than Gen III?

 

[FinalEd357]

Hands down, the new Viper must beat the z06 (& blue devil). I have a GTS and an 06z06. Keeping the snake, but just bought the z06 for the summer. GM just raised the price on the z by $4k and it is still a 1 yr wait to get at MSRP. I'm selling mine now with 900 miles for $3,000 more than I paid in June. Demand is greater than supply as mentioned. "Build it and they will buy" - another King of the Hill Viper in low production with unmistakable styling. Otherwise, many WILL CONTINUE to take a Z for $10k less which is faster and has many more convenience items. I know we Gen I & II Viper guys like the rawness of our cars (why I'm keeping mine over the Z), but there are many more people in the $70-75k who'd prefer the real king of the hill (right now) with more bells/whistles for $10k less. Listen up DC! p.s. and a cupholder.

 

[DEVILDOG]

I hope there is no Gen IV viper It makes my GenII all that much more valuable.

Personally, I don't care what DCX does. I don't want a German Viper. Whether or not there is a GEN4 or not the GEN1 & 2 will be very valuable in 15 to 20 years. Will be a nice inheritance for my son. Think about it. What's more valuable today...the '50s, '60s Vettes or the new Z06, the early Camaros/Firebirds or the last Gens, the early Chargers or the new one, many other examples? The GEN1 R/T and GEN2 GTS were ground breaking, outrageous cars that captured the soul of the American auto enthusiasts and many others around the world. It's dominance was proven on race tracks around the world with many Championships and records during it's production era. If you currently have a GEN1 & 2 and sell it you will regret it down the road. With that said, I wonder how many are left now after all the wrecks, converted to track cars, etc.? Anyone know? Needless to say I'm keeping mine. Besides the reasons above, it still makes me smile ear to ear EVERYTIME I turn the key!

 

[Bonkers]

Give these guys (the engineers) a chance. It is not
easy to design a top notch vehicle.

Who's asking them to design top-notch? From everything I've
read most people here want cave-man simple.

I understand what you meant Patent, but the reality is that
a lot of people here (myself included) worry about what
the "D" part of DC will do the more time they are given.
It's like give a crayon to an anklebiter and leaving them
alone for ten minutes vs. ten hours. The germans have their
way and the new viper will have an air conditioned trunk
and automatic 'wash-me' sensor.

Could some of you anti-Gen 3ers tell me how ugly you
feel the srt/10 and Coupe are compared too other vehicles
because I don't see it.

Oh, if I only had enough time in the day... But really, you
only have to put a GTS and SRTC side-by-side to get the
most profound effect of the differences. Or, you could put
the SRTC next to the Z06 and get the exact opposite
reaction.

 

[FinalEd357]

Well said Dog. I do not ever plan on selling mine. Way too much heritage, style and history. Just think back to '89-92 and the GTS in 96 - what other cars in the past 20 years even come close to anticipation and outright shock & awe! No disrespect to Gen3, but man... shock & awe!

 

[PatentLaw]

Andrew,

Just as others have had to do, when I was making the deal on my car, I had to choose between the Gen II ACR or spend a little more and get the SRT. To me, the difference in performance was really minor.

Gen III is beautiful. We all have to face it, however, and acknowledge that GM copied many of the attributes of the Viper with the new Vette (except for the nose). It is not an ugly car. Vette dilluted the Gen III, that is all.

Viper people are extroverts.....they want different....Dodge...different.

Gen III is better looking than the Vette in my opinion. Not a tremendous amount, but it is better. The Vette muddied the waters.

 

[Warfang]

In my mind, it seems the order has been given to make the halo car a true halo car. The back room deals have been made. Money is being spent. Powertrains are being developed. There was just not enough time to do anything for the show.

Give these guys (the engineers) a chance. It is not easy to design a top notch vehicle. Patience, grasshopper, patience......

Car must come in at an expected cost of 80k. No more.

Plus they have to deal with this unruly crowd once their done.

Could some of you anti-Gen 3ers tell me how ugly you feel the srt/10 and Coupe are compared too other vehicles because I don't see it. Even when I had my GTS, I always wanted to some day own an SRT/10.

Are Vettes better looking than Gen III?

You're dead on, and I really think most guys here would agree that the gen3's look better than 99% of other cars out there, and for the most part, this is sibling rivalry. I'm definately getting a gen3-4 someday, but nothing will ever replace the gts.

 

[Bonkers]

Gen III is better looking than the Vette in my opinion. Not a
tremendous amount, but it is better. The Vette muddied the waters.

No way! DC took the viper onto the vette's design turf, not the other way
round. The vette only had to soften some corners to get "new." The hood on the
SRT alone was a MAJOR departure from the previous model.

 

[PatentLaw]

Bonkers,

You put a C5 Vette next to and SRT and then tell me that the SRT looks like the Vette? Sorry....dont see it that way.

SRT did their model for 2003. C6 came out later and copied the SRT design. Look at the timeline. Vette muddied the waters. Intentional. Planned. Steal the market share.

 

[Bonkers]

Oh, I'm not challenging the fact that they look similar,
but you said the vette 'muddied the water' and that's just
not the case. Look at the GTS and SRT compared to the C5
and Z06. The only thing needed to make a C5 into a Z06 was
some mild body work, a little horsepower, and a few more
gadets (do you want the console salad-bar option sir?)
There are no real common elements of the GTS in the SRT.
The DC designers looked at the RT and said "Hmmmm... How
can we make this sell like a vette..." called toyota, asked
them if they laid any designers off last month, and the
rest is history.

Had DC designed a more complimentary viper the Z06 would
probably still look like the Z06 we see today. DC muddied
the water in 2003, chevy just added more mud in 2006.

 

[PatentLaw]

I understand your point. To refresh my memory, I just looked at both the C5 and C6. You will see a marked increase in the roundness in the humps over the wheel well in the C6. This was/is a primary design feature of the Viper (mostly Gen II but also Gen III) dating back to the earliest models. The C5 did not have this feature and was basically flat over the wheels. C4 was completely flat. C5 carried that through.

I therefore respectfully disagree with your learned opinion.

 

[NHL2133]

most vette people think the gen2 viper is an ugly clown shoe.

How do most Vette guys know what a gen2 looks like if all they ever see are the tail lights?

 

[fastfang]

Bonk,

I think your eyesight is going also. There is nothing wrong with the looks of the GenIII. I love mine and also love the looks of the GenI and GenII. Hell, I had two GTS's and liked them as much as my new one. Why? Because they were a Viper just like my '06 is. DC had to do something with the Viper after 10 years of production. I had an '87 Grand National and loved it. Then GM changed the body style of the Regal AND took the horsepower away from it. At least with the Viper, the horsepower is still there and in my opinion the looks are still there. A Viper is a Viper no matter what year it is!

 

[Bonkers]

I can agree to disagree - truce then?

This is what the Gen4 needs to be:

(I know nothing about this pic other than I came across it
early while cruising the gallery and liked it.

 

[fastfang]

Bonk,
Why does it have to look like that? It has more styling cues from the GenIII, which you made your point that you do not like. I definately like that if that was going to be the next Gen car, but I see that at well over $100K.

 

[bluestreak]

I dont get where people are saying that the SRTC is that much different than the GTS. It looks like a freaking evolution of cars. Just because you may prefer the slightly awkward GTS appearance does not make the coupe ugly in the least bit. The RT10 IMO is one of the ugliest sports cars known to man. The roof looks like it doesnt fit at all. It doesnt even look like a viper to me. I would think someone would have to be stark raving mad to think and RT-10 looks anywhere near as good as any GEN III.


Some people just prefer the classic lines, I did with the C5 corvette and think the GTS looks a little slimmer than the SRTC which I why I like it and will buy one. Other than that the SRTC is a step up in every area except just not quite enough on the performance side.

Whoever said the new Viper should come in at no more than 80k has some serious praying to do. That would all but scrap the profits on the current GEN III which it seems will still be on the lots when the new ones come out.

 

[Warfang]

I dont get where people are saying that the SRTC is that much different than the GTS. It looks like a freaking evolution of cars. Just because you may prefer the slightly awkward GTS appearance does not make the coupe ugly in the least bit. The RT10 IMO is one of the ugliest sports cars known to man. The roof looks like it doesnt fit at all. It doesnt even look like a viper to me. I would think someone would have to be stark raving mad to think and RT-10 looks anywhere near as good as any GEN III.


Some people just prefer the classic lines, I did with the C5 corvette and think the GTS looks a little slimmer than the SRTC which I why I like it and will buy one. Other than that the SRTC is a step up in every area except just not quite enough on the performance side.

Whoever said the new Viper should come in at no more than 80k has some serious praying to do. That would all but scrap the profits on the current GEN III which it seems will still be on the lots when the new ones come out.

So you as the kettle, resent the *** calling you black, so you take the high road by calling him a dark shade of charcoal?

You are no better than the gen1/2 hardheads you point the finger at. The GTS is "awkward", but you want one? The C5 has classic lines? BWAHAHAHAHAHHA! Stay with the vettes... you have NO IDEA WHAT A VIPER IS! The top on gen1/2 was an afterthought for the whiners like yourself (eh... I'd want a top too, thats why i drive a gts), but the car was meant to be driven with the top OFF. The Viper was meant to be no frills, all performance. The TRUE Viper (gen1) had no windows or AC for crying out loud! The rest of us are sissies.

Yes, the SRT's look great. Not as outrageous, but great in it's own way, and performance is top notch. The SRTC is an artistic abomination... the aggressive edges of the srt, with the **** curves of the GTS stapled on. But once you can get over the design laziness, the car still looks awesome!

 

[joe117]

I believe that the Viper is and has always been an advertisement for DC. It’s a flagship car that was never intended to be a moneymaker for the corporation.
I don’t think anyone can argue with that.

DC is a gigantic company. The entire cost of building Vipers and the profit or loss involved is so small compared to the whole of DC, that I can’t really see it being more than a pimple on the butt of DC.

If they wanted to sell them, they would set the price so they would sell.
Does anyone think that DC cares if they make $10k on each Viper produced or if they lose $10k on each Viper produced?
The Viper is advertising for DC.
Does anyone have any idea what a tv commercial costs?
The cost to produce and air a few tv commercials is probably more than the entire budget for Viper production.

What I’m saying is,
Viper could go away in a microsecond. Whatever plans for new styles and more power and anything else that has been talked about, all it would take would be one small corporate decision to end the Viper.

With the new ZO6 out there as a very fast, high tech alternative, not nearly as many enthusiasts are going to see Viper as king of the road.
If that’s the case, the advertising value of the Viper is going to drop.
DC doesn’t seem to be interested in using the Viper in advertising as it is.
As I pointed out above, DC doesn’t seem to be interested in pricing the Viper to sell.

Will DC come out with a super Viper in order to wrest back the undisputed “King of the Road” title in the mind of the public?
I don’t see it happening.

I predict that one day within the next year, we will see a news release announcing the end of Viper production.

 

[94RT10Ohio]

Man, some of you guys are worse than a woman!!

Sorry could not resisit and just needed to lighten the mood a little.

 

[FinalEd357]

Just build the darned car - many will buy it!

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

I believe that the Viper is and has always been an advertisement for DC. It’s a flagship car that was never intended to be a moneymaker for the corporation.
I don’t think anyone can argue with that.

You wouldn't think anyone could argue that but they always bring up the Minimal Profit Viper topic. I wonder how long some of these guys have been around that they think a 1000/yr production vehicle somewhere registers on the units sold bar chart of a company that sells more than 2,000,000 units annually.