This subject is done however ask any tuner whether they wanted their car or customers car to win the drag racing event the answer is YES. I have done my share of street racing but Gerald with your set up it's an accident waiting to happen. The track is where you should race, dust, grease, water etc on the road can only spell DANGER. You took this post personally which was not directed at you but the racing event however I STAND BY MY COMMENTS. THE TOP DOGS DID NOT PRODUCE THE NUMBERS AND THAT'S A FACT. CONGRATS TO THE UNDERDOGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
IS THAT ALL THERE IS...
- Thread starter ronviper
- Start date
Gerald
Enthusiast
![laughing2[1].gif](/vca/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fvca1.viperclub.org%2Fubb%2Fsmilies%2Flaughing2%5B1%5D.gif&hash=44ede181bdbbbb16a006ddd7153c47a2)
hahahah, That's funny...
Guys, I'm a street racer myself, and I like MPH!!.. Now no matter how you slice it the top Dogs making Big Power on the dyno should produce a nasty mile-n-hour..
I was hoping to see a couple of sankes over 150 traps...
Now what About GB3 Viper? 629 rwhp, and 136 mph traps!!!
It will not win any dyno shootout, but Boy give me that puppy anytime over any other combiantion... just my opinion..
Can you guys imagine what that thing will trap on some juice!
And is not making Mega power comapred to the power adders car.. still 136 mph.. I just can't get over that..same day, same track...
I was hoping to see a couple of sankes over 150 traps...
Now what About GB3 Viper? 629 rwhp, and 136 mph traps!!!
It will not win any dyno shootout, but Boy give me that puppy anytime over any other combiantion... just my opinion..
Can you guys imagine what that thing will trap on some juice!
And is not making Mega power comapred to the power adders car.. still 136 mph.. I just can't get over that..same day, same track...
Gerald
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ronviper:
Gerald to prove a point i will race you with my buick which does not make the power your car does and will BLOW YOUR DOORS OFF. Ha, ha, ha, ha, then we will see who is smoking crack.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hey Ron, you know where I live. I'd love to race you on the street.... I would look forward to it. If you're ever in FL with your Buick, look me up..... But you'd better be able to beat a crotch rocket 1st..
Gerald
Gerald to prove a point i will race you with my buick which does not make the power your car does and will BLOW YOUR DOORS OFF. Ha, ha, ha, ha, then we will see who is smoking crack.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hey Ron, you know where I live. I'd love to race you on the street.... I would look forward to it. If you're ever in FL with your Buick, look me up..... But you'd better be able to beat a crotch rocket 1st..
Gerald
Gerald you show you are not a true drag racer generally your best et is never your best mph. Et means you hook therefore shorten the track when you spin you lengthen the track therefore better mph but not the win light. When you learn to handle your car and run well into the 10's maybe we can talk until then keep bragging about all the horsepower you are making but cann't run a 10 second pass. Talk is cheap i have timeslips to back up my car where are yours????????
George Bryce
Enthusiast
Hey guys just to add to the mix......I made my 1st run with all stock tires. I spun bad! In 3rd gear the rear end was jumping off the ground! At 100 mph!!!!!! I lifted 4 times to gain control!? I only went 11.30 but it did pull 133 mph! Interesting as that was I could not wait to put the ET streets on then went 10.25 at 136. On the street at home my car rides and drives perfectly with the stock pilots....and I hook very well, and no wheel hop at all.it only spins in 1st on the street. It pulls like slicks most of the time . Just more info. GB3
George your car kicks butt no question about that. I would love to have my viper run like yours but i cann't so i sit back and drool. George from all i have read previous to the nationals your car was not mentioned so i think you must have surprised alot of the big hitters. Continued success
Gerald
Enthusiast
George, that's awesome! lifting the tires at 100 eeeeesh!!
Gerald
Gerald
George Bryce
Enthusiast
Gerald, It was the rear tires, bad wheel hop, I think the track prep had some effect. Because on the highway I just dont have wheel hop trouble. I wish it would lift the fronts at 100!!!!
GB3
GB3
V10 MOJO
Enthusiast
lotta interesting opinions and arguments. everyone has high expectations from the bigboys. when you pay 20-40k+ for upgrades you have a right to expect high numbers. i personally also would expect reliability, streetablity, and drivability, therefore the total package. if ya want a 1/4 mile car yep you can do it with a viper but why, too expensive. i was just at the track two weeks ago and saw a buick opal running 8's all d*mn night. guy put about 20k into it, so it shows ya dont have to spend megabucks if all you want is 1/4 mile trophies. the viper is the meanest nastiest most outragious street machine ever allowed to grace the american roads. owning one and driving it daily is always a rush
MES
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
I made my 1st run with all stock tires. I spun bad! In 3rd gear the rear end was jumping off the ground! At 100 mph!!!!!! I lifted 4 times to gain control!? I only went 11.30 but it did pull 133 mph! Interesting as that was I could not wait to put the ET streets on then went 10.25 at 136. On the street at home my car rides and drives perfectly with the stock pilots....and I hook very well<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I find the same thing at our local track, with radials the street hooks MUCH better than the track does. Congrats on the excellent times. I would have never thought the motor only cars would beat the blown, nitrous cars that were pushing so much more power.
BTW does anyone know if Apex (or a customer) ran in the drags? They had a 650 rwhp N/A stroker
I made my 1st run with all stock tires. I spun bad! In 3rd gear the rear end was jumping off the ground! At 100 mph!!!!!! I lifted 4 times to gain control!? I only went 11.30 but it did pull 133 mph! Interesting as that was I could not wait to put the ET streets on then went 10.25 at 136. On the street at home my car rides and drives perfectly with the stock pilots....and I hook very well<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I find the same thing at our local track, with radials the street hooks MUCH better than the track does. Congrats on the excellent times. I would have never thought the motor only cars would beat the blown, nitrous cars that were pushing so much more power.
BTW does anyone know if Apex (or a customer) ran in the drags? They had a 650 rwhp N/A stroker
Tom Welch
Enthusiast
Something to keep in mind,
This was only the 2nd Viper Drag Racing showdown and most tuners had new and unraced combinations that were being tried. Myself being one of them, along with DLM driving BT's car, Racing Solutions and many others. Also, there were numerous tuner customers there driving their own cars down the track for the first or second time, ever. Drag racing is not as easy as it looks from afar. 1/2 of a second is not much when you look at your watch, but on the dragstrip its an eternity and the possible difference of thousands of dollars in mods and lots of driver experience.
I also like MPH as I drive my own Viper and am no stranger to the local street racing scene. 140+ mph is good enough to take down most cars and bikes on the road from a rolling start and most of our heads/nos upgrades can put the average Viper near that mark.
Just my $ 0.02
Tom
Http://btrviper.com
This was only the 2nd Viper Drag Racing showdown and most tuners had new and unraced combinations that were being tried. Myself being one of them, along with DLM driving BT's car, Racing Solutions and many others. Also, there were numerous tuner customers there driving their own cars down the track for the first or second time, ever. Drag racing is not as easy as it looks from afar. 1/2 of a second is not much when you look at your watch, but on the dragstrip its an eternity and the possible difference of thousands of dollars in mods and lots of driver experience.
I also like MPH as I drive my own Viper and am no stranger to the local street racing scene. 140+ mph is good enough to take down most cars and bikes on the road from a rolling start and most of our heads/nos upgrades can put the average Viper near that mark.
Just my $ 0.02
Tom
Http://btrviper.com
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BUD:
With all this crack use on the board there are gona be some REAL cheap Vipers for sale.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm still standing by...waiting....watching.....
Carl
With all this crack use on the board there are gona be some REAL cheap Vipers for sale.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm still standing by...waiting....watching.....
Carl
SlowCreamPuff
Enthusiast
Quote: "I'm guessing you haven't tried drag racing or road racing!! "
Excuse me, but I just rented a road course track for 2 days for a few friends and I to play on. So, yes I have tried road racing, thank you.
I have 32,000+ miles on my 2001 w/ lots of road course miles...
I have also ran 12.0@118 w/ my 2001 GTS on stock tires. I have also ran 11.2@137 on 335/30/18 Michelin Pilot Sports @ 30psi on my other car. So, yes I have tried drag racing.
So, have you driven a car with real power?
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Excuse me, but I just rented a road course track for 2 days for a few friends and I to play on. So, yes I have tried road racing, thank you.
I have also ran 12.0@118 w/ my 2001 GTS on stock tires. I have also ran 11.2@137 on 335/30/18 Michelin Pilot Sports @ 30psi on my other car. So, yes I have tried drag racing.
So, have you driven a car with real power?
Diablo Joe
Enthusiast
From my observation,the difference in ET's is strictly due to the driver.If George Bryces car went 10.25 @ 136 with 636 rwhp,then any Viper with 636 rwhp can go 10.25.The reason they didnt is because they probably dont have the seat time George does(Or there car is a big,fat ,pig).Its a great accomplishment to go 10.25 all motor but in reality any Viper can go 10.25 as long as they have at least 636rwhp and CAN DRIVE. Weather is another determining factor but in this particular case,with these cars run on the same track,same day,same conditions,its all about the driver. Higher HP cars will struggle more with traction during these conditions but theres no doubt that under more ideal conditions,things would have been more interesting.
Joe
Joe
Tom it seems to me a 9 second pass would have made you more happy than running 142mph. It takes horsepower to et, i have personally run 10.16 with a stock block 3.8 gn with champion steel heads however it only mph at 131mph. At buick nationals this year at bowling green the same track in the heat of june stock block 3.8 ran 9.91 at only 132mph. He makes less power however he is in the 9's so et wins, he also had 1.40 60 foot. With my stage2 buick it made 1100hp however until i got suspension work i was skating all over the track and never et worth a **** .
Jason Heffner
Enthusiast
I would have to agree with you guys whole heartedly. Could someone please explain how a car that supposedly makes 150 to 200 more rwhp than another could be running a less mph than the less powerful car? The facts are: when VOI drags come around it's time to put up or shut up, leave your excuses at home, most of the should be 9 second cars, wait, all of the 9 second cars are race cars, they don't run on pump gas and hardly ever get down the track, what good is having a car if you always need a pit crew with you to fix the car between rounds, having a car with more than one power adder is B.S., the fastest Vipers run the number one one power adder. Gerald, you are definitely living in your own world.........please come back to earth. Running bikes from a 100 mph roll and beating them is not as hard as you think, bikes do not have the power that a car does and will usually start to run out before a car does. I notice that you never mention the times when some kid in a Mustang wears you out from a light, God knows that there are plenty of them who can, you just comfort yourself by knowing that you'd beat him from a 175 mph roll. Has anyone ever been to a drag strip that lets you run from a 100 mph roll? Nope didn't think so. If anyone else has any other questions or feel that someone needs a reality check please let me know, I have no problem telling it like it is. Food for thought: George Brices LPE Viper makes 630 rwhp, this car would readily smoke Gerald on a regular basis no matter what the conditions. It seems to me that the guys with all the balls stopped talking about how bad thier cars are and came to Kentucky and showed everyone.
treynor
Enthusiast
Jesus -- I go away for three days and the smack-talking gets AWFULLY thick around here.
> Could someone please explain how a car that supposedly makes 150 to 200 more rwhp than another could be running a less mph than the less powerful car?
Jason, I'm a bit surprised at you -- anyone with experience racing knows that few runs go perfectly. The effect is worse if you don't get any test time on race day; because of the rain most driversat the VOI drags got only 3-4 runs total, frequently on combinations they'd never tested before. There were a LOT of 11-13 second passes from cars which are capable (on their best day) of clicking off a 9-second run. I've got a bunch of them on videotape if anyone's interested in seeing the (numerous) ways a fast car can run a slow time.
I'll add one data point of which I'm sure -- my DLM car didn't run as fast as I expected because it lacked traction, pure and simple. Have a look at this video , in which Doug tried at "medium" power (about 1050 RWHP) run in my RT: he launches, goes sideways in 1st, short-shifts to 2nd, goes sideways again (this is on ET streets, mind you), short-shifts to 3rd, turns in a 2.15-sec 60' time (!!) and still runs 147 MPH at the traps. The car is obviously making PLENTY of power, but translating that into traction and good ET & MPH is a matter of further development and seat time.
More generally, a number of tuners -- e.g. Albert, RSI, and DLM -- have recently made considerable strides in boosting the power levels in the Viper engine. It will take a bit more time before the rest of the system -- clutch, tranny, diff, tires, suspension -- can be made to handle that power reliably and put it to the ground predictably. I fully expect to see Vipers from multiple tuners reaching the mid-9s by next year, as the rest of the Viper ecosystem catches up with the strides made recently by the top horsepower brokers.
Finally, I encourage any of you who are "baffled" at why the results are so inconsistent and so far from expectations to attend a few races with big-HP cars for starters. There is a big difference between a dyno sheet and a fast 1/4 mile, although you need the former to obtain the latter. Viper drag racing is far from the predictable, "take 760 RWHP and mail me a 9-sec timeslip" science many of you appear to believe it is...
> Could someone please explain how a car that supposedly makes 150 to 200 more rwhp than another could be running a less mph than the less powerful car?
Jason, I'm a bit surprised at you -- anyone with experience racing knows that few runs go perfectly. The effect is worse if you don't get any test time on race day; because of the rain most driversat the VOI drags got only 3-4 runs total, frequently on combinations they'd never tested before. There were a LOT of 11-13 second passes from cars which are capable (on their best day) of clicking off a 9-second run. I've got a bunch of them on videotape if anyone's interested in seeing the (numerous) ways a fast car can run a slow time.
I'll add one data point of which I'm sure -- my DLM car didn't run as fast as I expected because it lacked traction, pure and simple. Have a look at this video , in which Doug tried at "medium" power (about 1050 RWHP) run in my RT: he launches, goes sideways in 1st, short-shifts to 2nd, goes sideways again (this is on ET streets, mind you), short-shifts to 3rd, turns in a 2.15-sec 60' time (!!) and still runs 147 MPH at the traps. The car is obviously making PLENTY of power, but translating that into traction and good ET & MPH is a matter of further development and seat time.
More generally, a number of tuners -- e.g. Albert, RSI, and DLM -- have recently made considerable strides in boosting the power levels in the Viper engine. It will take a bit more time before the rest of the system -- clutch, tranny, diff, tires, suspension -- can be made to handle that power reliably and put it to the ground predictably. I fully expect to see Vipers from multiple tuners reaching the mid-9s by next year, as the rest of the Viper ecosystem catches up with the strides made recently by the top horsepower brokers.
Finally, I encourage any of you who are "baffled" at why the results are so inconsistent and so far from expectations to attend a few races with big-HP cars for starters. There is a big difference between a dyno sheet and a fast 1/4 mile, although you need the former to obtain the latter. Viper drag racing is far from the predictable, "take 760 RWHP and mail me a 9-sec timeslip" science many of you appear to believe it is...
Jason Heffner
Enthusiast
Ben, I was not referring to your car at all, I believe your car put up high mph for the event. I fully understand that Wednesday was the first trip to the track and that it will take a considerable amount of time to dial it in, not so much the engine but the rest of the car. I would strongly recommend a Powerglide for you
. The only advice I have for you is to please be careful. I was more so referring to the cars that have been together for longer periods of time and talked all the smack. How can you build a car for a customer that has to be retuned every time the weather changes? That is how temperemental some of them are, no thanks. The fact of the matter is, all it would have taken to win the unlimited class is a consistent low 10 second car. They seem to be the ones that get down the track more often than not. Just an observation.
Jason Heffner
Enthusiast
I would have to agree with oneslowhemi, Can anyone tell me what sanctioned event you can go to and make 20 passes to dial in your driving. If it takes you more than 2 or 3 runs to lay down a good number then I call that luck. The last 8 second car I had coul droll out and rip of mid 8s at 165 repeatedly from the first pass to the last, if it couldn't, I wouldn't bring it. That's what test and tune is for, again Ben I'm not referring to you or your car as I realize you had no time to test before this event.
Jason i like your straight forward approch telling it like it is.There is always a million excuses but the end result speaks for itself. I have seem over and over where the fastest car doesn't win, that's part of drag racing. You have to be consisent and go rounds to win, that includes red lights, poor launches, going sideways the point is to be the first to the other end period. Preparation is all part of racing from having fuel to tire pressure to plugs etc,it's not just horsepower but the complete package and driver skills. Reaction time and controlling or harnessing the power. Making power does not guarrantee a victory. One of Jason's customer didn't make the most power but with Jamie Furman driving GaryA's car they were planted solid in the 10's.
treynor
Enthusiast
OH! you weren't talking about me? In that case I take it all back
Seriously though, (a) congrats on your car's showing w/Jamie -- I have video! (b) top MPH actually goes to RSI (148 mph) my car ran 147 MPH, as did (I believe) Albert's; (c) you're absolutely right, our R&D focus is now shifting to putting all that power to the ground. I honestly didn't expect to have such traction problems with drag tires, but that's mostly a function of my own inexperience with this level of horsepower.
Peace,
Ben Treynor
Seriously though, (a) congrats on your car's showing w/Jamie -- I have video! (b) top MPH actually goes to RSI (148 mph) my car ran 147 MPH, as did (I believe) Albert's; (c) you're absolutely right, our R&D focus is now shifting to putting all that power to the ground. I honestly didn't expect to have such traction problems with drag tires, but that's mostly a function of my own inexperience with this level of horsepower.
Peace,
Ben Treynor
MES
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jason Heffner:
having a car with more than one power adder is B.S., the fastest Vipers run the number one one power adder. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just wondering what you mean by that? What is BS about more than one power adder? i.e. it's not fair? it's bad for the motor? it's just for the dyno? why not run a supercharger with nitrous? no flame to anyone, just curious why you say that. Thanks
having a car with more than one power adder is B.S., the fastest Vipers run the number one one power adder. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just wondering what you mean by that? What is BS about more than one power adder? i.e. it's not fair? it's bad for the motor? it's just for the dyno? why not run a supercharger with nitrous? no flame to anyone, just curious why you say that. Thanks
Jason Heffner
Enthusiast
I guess in a way, yes it is just for the dyno. Look at the facts, Albert Chloubers car holds the record for the quickest and fastest Viper ever, if I'm not mistaken. He has only nitrous on his car and has enough problems with that. I'm not calling it cheating, unlimited means unlimited. The HMS TT car made over 1000 rwhp (with nitrous) on the dyno and has run a best et of 9.99. All the rest of the 9 second cars have only nitrous, make a lot less power on the dyno and always run quicker and faster. Why not make the car run fast on one or the other? If you don't run the number on blower or turbo, turn up the boost, that's what the nos guys do.
Jason Heffner
Enthusiast
Ben, does your car have twin blowers? Someone on another thread mentioned that it had twin turbos but I thought it sounded more like a blower.
jamie furman
Enthusiast
In response to Gerald's comments about big horse and roll on the street, I have to disagree because the first thing anyone ever want's to know is what does it run and they mean 1/4 mile at the track, and thats why we all went to BG to find out who can put the power down, because on the dyno you just sit there and those big numbers mean nothing if you can't use them. Well I take that back, it helps the tuner justify the a** whipping your wallet is about to take! In 95% of the case's when the car is making monumental horsepower nobody can drive it and it ceases to be a street car or a competitive drag car, just a test and tune queen.
By me wanting more and more horsepower i made one car a trailor Queen i hopefully have learned from that and will never do that again. To me a true street car is one you can drive anywhere with performance to boot. 10 or mid to high 9's are very attainable and still keep it streetable. I have done it with at least 6 different turbo buicks however i have never tried with the viper yet. It's just a matter of time till i forget how much i paid for this car and start to play. Jason Heffner and many other TUNERS are now wetting my appetite for more out of my car.
