donk_316
Enthusiast
Thanks buddy. Funny enough I thought Mark wanted to hear from people like ME not people who already bought the car.
Let's be real, what would it take? Only short answers please
- Thread starter mjorgensen Woodhouse
- Start date
Thanks buddy. Funny enough I thought Mark wanted to hear from people like ME not people who already bought the car.
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
I remember this story fairly well: http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/31/doh-aston-martin-owner-finds-volvo-logo-on-key/
Complain about the price of the Viper, yet expect it to have all bespoke items? Yawn. We've heard it all before.
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
He is complaining that the power switch is shared between various models.
Sorry, it is a bit mundane and isn't what Mark was asking for.
donk_316
Enthusiast
Wow buddy i dont know what your issue is... Im sorry ive offended you and your 2013 white SRT. Forgive me for having an opinion that was actually ASKED for.
And having owned and put thousands of miles on the Viper in a few short months I can say it's easily worth it's MSRP.
I think anyone who is bringing up minutia like plastic vent inserts and window switches is clearly looking for excuses to not buy the viper. The windows in my Viper work fine - i don't care if SRT uses off-the-shelf parts used in other Chrysler vehicles...in fact, I'm glad for that, because if it should ever break it's a cheap and easy fix.
Nine Ball
Enthusiast
I don't get the "cheap plastic vents" statement at all. Just about every car on the market uses plastic grilles. Even this $400,000 example.
Even the SLS AMG Benz still uses plastic vents.
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Even the SLS AMG Benz still uses plastic vents.
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ACR steve
Enthusiast
Donk- don't take this the wrong way but you should buy the Corvette its much more for you. Trust me
Jog
Enthusiast
In the famous words of the Late Carol Shelby....
" Horse Power Sells Cars...But Torque Wins Races.."...
" Horse Power Sells Cars...But Torque Wins Races.."...
If people are calling the Gen V too expensive they're probably either poor, pretender, wannabe or etc. Anyone seriously considering a car over $100K should just accept that they've already decided that they're going to spend a lot of money on a toy, and that affordability is not really part of the equation.
If you want a "$500 over invoice" deal on a car that costs less than my Viper's paint job go get a Kia. If you really want a Viper, don't whine about the price being too high - instead, let that motivate you to find a way to earn more money so that you can buy one. Contrary to liberal propaganda you hear on TV all the time, America is still full of opportunity for those who have the balls to pursue it. The truth is that nobody deserves a reward for not taking risks and playing it safe. If you want a Viper or any car like it but cannot yet afford it, the first step is adopting the right mindset.
VENOM V
Enthusiast
Whoa, don't go putting words into my mouth or assuming anything about elitist this or that. Absolutely agree with you that people should feel free to say anything bad if it's valid. But do you expect we the owners to turn a blind eye to mistruths spoken by those who want to distort? Read my post 111, did I not respond in a measured way? But then Mr. Donk went on to whine about panel gaps again, ignoring my post. Yes, the early Vipers had panel gap issues. Some of the cars on the lots are the early cars. Do they have panel gap issues now? No. How about price? You can buy at Gen V for $100K easily, where does this $140 - $150K price come from? Yes, if you check every option box you can jack the price up. The last Ferrari 348 that was tested in a mag had over $100k in options alone! Does that mean that all 348s cost that much? How about cheap plastic that Mr. Donk mentioned? The "cheap plastic hood inserts" on my car are far from it, they are well designed with a snake skin pattern and are very tightly held in. How do I know? Because I snapped them in myself after my car was clear wrapped.
Let's be fair, some people just want to ***** about a car they never intend to buy, with untrue statements. Tell me you wouldn't respond if someone did that about a car you own.
ohlarikd
Enthusiast
Anyone can disagree with anyone's statements, that is fine, its a forum. But if someone puts down the GenV, it immediately turns into PERSONAL attacks, and assumptions about their monetary wealth. Not everyone mind you.
Its a car, not your child.
(This is not directed at any particular post or poster)
Its a car, not your child.
(This is not directed at any particular post or poster)
01viper4me
Enthusiast
- Joined
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So you can get the following instead of a Gen V:
An Audi with 430hp who would get trounced by a viper..
An XKRS with almost 100hp less, almost a full second slower from 0-60, and is an automatic.
A DB8 (I am assuming you mean V8 Vantage?) comes in with a whopping 420hp and is a GT car. If you jump up to the base "S" version, you are out of the price range of a fully optioned Viper.
Looks are completely subjective; however, at the last Cars and Coffee I attended, a Gen V showed up and there was a crowd around it for a long time. Two R8's showed up, one convertible and one coupe and there was no crowd. So while it is subjective, most people would say the new Viper is a better looking car imho.
You mention the Viper is a Low-No tech Everything vehicle with RWD. Are you wanting AWD and loads of drivers aides? If so, get the Audi or better yet, just get a GTR... you could fit 4 people and still smoke the Audi.
The simple fact that you are comparing the Jaguar, Viper, and Audi show that you really have no idea what it is that you "want" in a vehicle as all three are VERY different animals. If you want loads of tech and drivers aides and 200hp less than the 640hp you get with the Viper (by the way you are getting the Base trim on all the vehicles you listed for the same price as the viper), you may want to nix the Viper from your search.
The height issue is unfortunate; however, that is something that is going to hinder you in other vehicles. But if you can't fit, and are unwilling to modify the seat so you can, the car isn't for you.
Rapid Transit
Enthusiast
At the risk of being labeled a "pretender", I will say this: I totally agree that 640 HP is way more than enough, even 500 or a little less. But winning races with 640 HP is not the point here. SRT wants to hear what will make more buyers consider the Gen V. So, even if nobody can use 700 HP to its full extent, that number is magical, from a sales perspective.
ohlarikd
Enthusiast
I have no problem with your statement here - defending facts / opinions about the CAR. That is fine. It's just the rather steep decline into personal attacks that some tend to make. Truthfully, if there are others lurking here considering a GenV, we are not making it look like a fun crowd to be in.
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
There are four pages of comments that have been nothing but positive. Heck, I don't even agree with a lot of them but no one has piped up about them.
Clear mistruths (sure there maybe panel gaps in the two he saw) and silly complaints of "cheap plastic" and "reused common components" is just that, silly - especially from someone who just registered.
VENOM V
Enthusiast
Agreed, we should stick to the facts and avoid personal attacks. It's hard not to get a little worked up when someone insults your baby, LOL
Sorry Mark, we completely derailed your thread. We should get back to your original question.
ohlarikd
Enthusiast
Again - agree. Feel free to set people straight or provide contrary opinion. I was merely commenting on the personal attacks and the assumptions about people's wealth (or lack thereof). It actually makes some people sound petty and elitist. Exactly what Viper owners typically were NOT.
Ok now I am repeating myself over and over.... carry on
hammerofgods
Enthusiast
- Joined
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What is exactly the point of this thread actually? Any input amounts to complaints regarding the current car and what should be done to sell it (making it somewhat better/improved I guess?). Also, have you read the beginning of this thread? What do you make of this?
" Let's be real, what would it take? Only short answers please
I would like to ask a hypothetical question"
Why would anyone ask hypothetical questions while making something real? Does not compute
Just imagine the reaction of the "well seasoned multipost-credible" individuals seeing a thread like this coming from a "noob", there would be a lynching party in no time.
People who don't have any experience with the car in question shouldn't be making comments one way or the other, however people feel entitled to come in here and make ridiculous claims about non-existent problems or issues, which are little more than an attempt to make themselves feel better about not having a Viper of their own.
Great point that seems to get overlooked; plenty of cars that outprice the Viper and offer a lot less in terms of power and performance.
I'd bet money that the Viper would sell as-is if it were advertised intelligently and aggressively. I would hold off on making calls for changes to the car BEFORE evaluating the results of advertising efforts. My local dealer only had a handful of people come on to inquire about the viper, and I was the only sold viper last I spoke with them...but the area I live is full of people who could afford it and would want to buy it - they just don't know it exists.
05Commemorative
Enthusiast
Completely agree!
ohlarikd
Enthusiast
Again, you are making this assumption that everyone wants to 'make themselves feel better' because they can't afford it. You say that repeatedly. How can you make these assumptions?
WHY would you make these assumptions is a better question.
The thread is asking for opinions from people who DIDN'T buy the car, so they naturally 'don't have any experience'. Whether you agree or disagree with their statements or not, that is perfectly fine, and rebuttal is welcome, without the personal commentary.
Nine Ball
Enthusiast
Only short answers, please. LOLOL.
(sorry Mark)
(sorry Mark)
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01viper4me
Enthusiast
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Wish would be 700hp+, Unlocked for modding capabilities
Again, you are making this assumption that everyone wants to 'make themselves feel better' because they can't afford it. You say that repeatedly. How can you make these assumptions?
WHY would you make these assumptions is a better question.
The thread is asking for opinions from people who DIDN'T buy the car, so they naturally 'don't have any experience'. Whether you agree or disagree with their statements or not, that is perfectly fine, and rebuttal is welcome, without the personal commentary.
Pretty sure that the thread wants to hear from people who actually have the means to buy the car, but chose not to in lieu of another car.
People who complain about price automatically relegate themselves to the "can't afford it now, probably never will" camp.
People who complain about pointless stuff like "I heard the viper uses window switches from a mini van" or highlight "plastic grill inserts" as if no other 6-figure car uses plastic anywhere are full of ****.
Your decision to buy or not buy will not come down to the material of the grill inserts or usage of off-the-shelf parts where proprietary parts would provide no benefit.
So I stand by my statements. The fact of the matter is that there is nothing wrong with the Gen V functionally or technically, and aesthetically it's a win in the opinions of most people. The Gen 5 doesn't have any critical defects or shortcomings - SRT did a great job in making sure the car was close to perfect as possible.
The most legitimate gripe is that it is bit small inside which could be a problem for tall or really fat people. That's really the only thing "wrong" with the car that might be a dealbreaker, because if you can't fit in the car you can't drive it.
The only other "complaint" I hear can be summarized as people who don't understand what the Viper is, can't handle it, and then cry for it to become something it's not...declaring it to be "crap" because it's not like some other car.
The Viper is it's own car. It has it's own character. If this appeals to you, buy the car. If you want what another car has - get the other car.
- It's not an AWD with a computer nanny - you need to learn to drive.
- It doesn't need a DCT to be competitive - you need to learn to shift.
- It doesn't need a supercharger or turbo - it has more than enough power to hang with or beat the best in its class, and beyond.
You are welcome to continue bringing up these contrived "problems" and I'll be sure to smack them down in kind. If you are seriously considering buying the car and you have no experience with it, you should be asking questions.
ohlarikd
Enthusiast
The boost problem is not a contrived problem and SRT does not view it that way. Please watch the Dick Winkles video wherein he states that the engine was designed for boost because they knew, and know, that many Viper owners like to add forced induction applications. A significant number of Viper purchasers, including me, ordered their current car and had it modded immediately before it was delivered to them. In my case, this was done by Woodhouse with a custom calibration provided by Dan Cragin. Before that I had a Gen II with a Roe supercharger.
Those who are not gearheads and do not need and are not used to an enhanced level of power have some difficulty empathizing and understanding the needs of those who do.
But SRT does empathize and understand. The issue now is somehow providing the necessary data to a reputable vendor who can put together a reliable kit so that someone can buy a Gen V and immediately mod it without a problem. The enhanced power is addictive. Once you are used to it, it is depressing to be without it.
Those who are not gearheads and do not need and are not used to an enhanced level of power have some difficulty empathizing and understanding the needs of those who do.
But SRT does empathize and understand. The issue now is somehow providing the necessary data to a reputable vendor who can put together a reliable kit so that someone can buy a Gen V and immediately mod it without a problem. The enhanced power is addictive. Once you are used to it, it is depressing to be without it.
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TRACKDAY
Viper Owner
I agree 100%.
My initial post was short but due to some reoccurring claims I feel the need to clarify. Sorry for ****ting in this thread like so many others have already.
My love for the Viper came in 1992 when I saw one on the road. In 1998 my dad purchased the first silver GTS in Texas and immediately sent it to TNT motorsports. They did custom work on it and got it up to around 675 crank HP. I've driven at least 3000 miles in that car, some authorized, some not. I know its power very well.
In 2005 my old man bought an SRT, he did a mild 800HP turbo package and a racing automatic in it. I drove that extensively. So I do have a lot of seat time in Vipers. Had it blown my socks off there is a 75% chance a gen V would be in my driveway right now. As much as you guys want to write off all of the naysayers, I do have the money and have for a few years to buy a new Viper and not lose sleep at night. With that said, it's not a drop in the bucket either. It's still a very big purchase for me. When it was all said and done I decided against a sports car for now and bought the '14 SRT Jeep. At $70k it's not exactly cheap. Now I can't speak for the others here, but I'm willing to bet there are quite a few with the means to purchase who didn't because of what SRT did or didn't do. Then again, there are some obnoxious kids who clearly don't.
My love for the Viper came in 1992 when I saw one on the road. In 1998 my dad purchased the first silver GTS in Texas and immediately sent it to TNT motorsports. They did custom work on it and got it up to around 675 crank HP. I've driven at least 3000 miles in that car, some authorized, some not. I know its power very well.
In 2005 my old man bought an SRT, he did a mild 800HP turbo package and a racing automatic in it. I drove that extensively. So I do have a lot of seat time in Vipers. Had it blown my socks off there is a 75% chance a gen V would be in my driveway right now. As much as you guys want to write off all of the naysayers, I do have the money and have for a few years to buy a new Viper and not lose sleep at night. With that said, it's not a drop in the bucket either. It's still a very big purchase for me. When it was all said and done I decided against a sports car for now and bought the '14 SRT Jeep. At $70k it's not exactly cheap. Now I can't speak for the others here, but I'm willing to bet there are quite a few with the means to purchase who didn't because of what SRT did or didn't do. Then again, there are some obnoxious kids who clearly don't.
It's a niche car now, and has been for 21 years. If it wasn't there would have been greater demand over the years and more cars made. All the Viper fans and previous owners who could afford one bought them and the big empty demographic is the "crossover" buyers who never bought in. I'm not sure what SRT could have done unless they can find a way for it to say "Ferrari" on the back. They built a great car and upgraded the interior immensely but the one thing unchanged is the name and it's perception in many peoples mind. The Viper name and image has always been a big rough hard to handle all motor monster and that is both it's appeal to owners and it's aversion by others. It's still seen as a blue collar car despite the formidable price. How can that perception be changed?
OP
OP
mjorgensen Woodhouse
Enthusiast
What is exactly the point of this thread actually? Any input amounts to complaints regarding the current car and what should be done to sell it (making it somewhat better/improved I guess?). Also, have you read the beginning of this thread? What do you make of this?
" Let's be real, what would it take? Only short answers please
I would like to ask a hypothetical question"
Why would anyone ask hypothetical questions while making something real? Does not compute
Just imagine the reaction of the "well seasoned multipost-credible" individuals seeing a thread like this coming from a "noob", there would be a lynching party in no time.
Well the reason it is hypothetical is because I'm not promising anyone I could change anything... And by Let's be real I mean I wanted viable answers not whimsical lists of wants, just the 1 big thing that may have helped you turn the corner to buying;
Power
PCM
Open PCM
Mopar parts
Interior
Fitments
Colors
Wheels
Carbon anything...
That's what I was looking for, just one word tangables to compile a list of the top 3-4 things.
I know that as with anything in life each individual can want a hundred different things out of something they perceive as flawed. When SRT solicited input on the Gen5 way back, they got a huge list and had to pick and choose what they could really accomplish with time and budgets they were given all while trying to give the Viper community what they wanted. Now that all seems to have changed according to some posters, maybe because they were not here when the lists were being compiled... don't know.
I'm just trying to nail down a short "top reason" list that maybe SRT can put to use, not that they can promise anything either, but if you can't have everything what is the ONE thing you would like to have? You can post numerous times I suppose, but if they have to read through all the crap being tossed around now do you really think they will waste their time? I'm trying to help that's all and sorry I'm not educated enough to get that across to some of you I guess...
