Bill/APEX Motorsports
Enthusiast
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2000
- Posts
- 323
- Reaction score
- 0
Re: MASH\'S APEX 550 STROKER
Since there seems to be a lot of finger-pointing going on here by people who aren’t or shouldn’t be involved in this, I have to tell my side of the story and the facts as I know them.
There are quite a few facets that seem to have been left out of this story. Yes, we do offer a warranty on our Lethal packages, and yes, Mashour was provided the warranty. Here is what the warranty states in its entirety:
“APEX Motorsports warrants each Lethal Viper package we install to be free from defects in materials and workmanship for 1 year or 12,000 miles, whichever comes first. The warranty covers the engine assembly but does not cover the clutch assembly or other drivetrain components. The warranty period begins on the date of delivery. This warranty applies only to the original owner of the engine at date of delivery (i.e. date of final payment). The warranty will not apply to damages resulting from detonation, overheating, misuse, incorrect maintenance, modifications, or accidents. The vehicle must be delivered to APEX Motorsports at the owner’s expense for inspection before any warranty authorization will be given. APEX Motorsports reserves the right to repair or replace the engine assembly after inspection. APEX Motorsports shall not be held liable for any consequential damages resulting from a warranty claim. This warranty voids all previously issued warranties and is non-transferable.
A dealer or mechanic of your choice in your area may complete minor repairs that might be needed and are covered under warranty only with written prior approval from APEX Motorsports. Failure to comply with this rule may result in a loss of warranty coverage.”
This is the exact warranty that was provided to Mashour. I would consider it a given that he would show this warranty to anyone who would be working on his car so as to abide by the guidelines set forth by the warranty.
Mashour’s car left APEX Motorsports via the transporter sometime shortly after January 16, 2003, after his final invoice was billed.
What has failed to be mentioned is that after the car left here, Mashour had the camshaft changed twice. Yes, twice. That means the front of the engine had been removed twice and without our approval. In addition, at a minimum, the valve covers would have to come off and the entire valvetrain removed. Normally, the cylinder heads are removed to keep the lifters from dropping into the motor when the camshaft is removed, but Heffner says he has a tool that doesn’t require removing the heads. However, disassembling and removing the valvetrain was supposedly done. Thus, the engine was modified from its original assembly. The moment that the engine is opened, the warranty is clearly voided. It also introduces the possibility for error.
I did say that I would take care of any problem that was caused by a part that we installed. However, that was before I found out that the camshaft had been changed twice.
Because the engine was slated for the supercharger, and Mashour didn’t want to wait until Paxton released theirs and have us install it, he elected to have us leave the stock injectors and fuel system on the engine, break in the motor, and have Heffner upgrade the fuel system when he was installing his supercharger package. I gave him that provision.
We cleaned and inspected the engine assembly multiple times before installation. The intake was not only cleaned by Extrude Hone, as is their normal process, we also clean out each Extrude Honed manifold with cleaner prior to assembly. The engine and car ran perfectly fine when it left here. As is common practice with a new motor, we check compression and leakdown before delivery, and all was fine and within specs. Mashour broke in the engine for more 1,000 miles, dyno-tuned it, had the supercharger installed shortly thereafter, had it tuned again, and it made fantastic power (890rwhp). I believe the engine had about 1,500 miles on it when the filings first appeared. (Someone correct me if I’m wrong about the exact mileage.) After 1,500 trouble-free miles, the camshaft was changed twice, and the lowered-compression problem occurs shortly after.
I assume the oil was changed multiple times during break-in, as we suggest with any new motor. (We changed it twice here.) I would think that with all the oil changes the car has had, at some point, someone would notice metal filings in the oil before the engine was disassembled. I was never notified of such an occurrence. (Part of the supercharger installation involves drilling and tapping the oil pan for the oil return line. This procedure does create metal filings.)
The car was driven even more. The camshaft was changed twice, and not once was anything mentioned to us about metal filings. We never heard anything other than the car made insane amounts of horsepower. Yet after the camshaft was changed twice, the power started to fall. I cannot honor a warranty in a situation where error could have been introduced by someone else, and when there is a warranty issue, I will not just take someone else’s word for it. That’s why we include in our warranty that we must have the car or complete, unassembled engine here for inspection.
Without any prior approval (especially written, per our warranty), the engine was partially disassembled by Heffner. Jason called to say there was a compression issue, and I requested pictures on July 26, 2003. On July 28, 2003, he emailed me, “I’ll send you the pictures tomorrow morning, my camera is at home.” After many attempts via email and phone to get any sort of pictures, I finally received eight pictures on September 29, 2003, over two months later. Four of the eight pictures are somewhat blurry or inconclusive. (This is precisely why we require that the engine be in-house for disassembly.)
Since we built the motor, we absolutely have to have the opportunity and the right to inspect the engine in-house to determine the source of the issue. We were never allowed that opportunity, since the engine was fully and completely disassembled elsewhere and not at APEX.
The fact that people who are not involved in this are posting saying they know all the facts is a bit disconcerting. Do you know all the facts? Who is giving you those facts? Until now, you’ve only heard one side of the story, and you’re a third party. This is between Mashour, Heffner, and APEX Motorsports.
Finally, what would other tuners do if put in this situation? I find it extremely hard to believe that, given what is clearly stated in the warranty and what modifications were performed to the car after it was delivered, they would act any differently.
Since there seems to be a lot of finger-pointing going on here by people who aren’t or shouldn’t be involved in this, I have to tell my side of the story and the facts as I know them.
There are quite a few facets that seem to have been left out of this story. Yes, we do offer a warranty on our Lethal packages, and yes, Mashour was provided the warranty. Here is what the warranty states in its entirety:
“APEX Motorsports warrants each Lethal Viper package we install to be free from defects in materials and workmanship for 1 year or 12,000 miles, whichever comes first. The warranty covers the engine assembly but does not cover the clutch assembly or other drivetrain components. The warranty period begins on the date of delivery. This warranty applies only to the original owner of the engine at date of delivery (i.e. date of final payment). The warranty will not apply to damages resulting from detonation, overheating, misuse, incorrect maintenance, modifications, or accidents. The vehicle must be delivered to APEX Motorsports at the owner’s expense for inspection before any warranty authorization will be given. APEX Motorsports reserves the right to repair or replace the engine assembly after inspection. APEX Motorsports shall not be held liable for any consequential damages resulting from a warranty claim. This warranty voids all previously issued warranties and is non-transferable.
A dealer or mechanic of your choice in your area may complete minor repairs that might be needed and are covered under warranty only with written prior approval from APEX Motorsports. Failure to comply with this rule may result in a loss of warranty coverage.”
This is the exact warranty that was provided to Mashour. I would consider it a given that he would show this warranty to anyone who would be working on his car so as to abide by the guidelines set forth by the warranty.
Mashour’s car left APEX Motorsports via the transporter sometime shortly after January 16, 2003, after his final invoice was billed.
What has failed to be mentioned is that after the car left here, Mashour had the camshaft changed twice. Yes, twice. That means the front of the engine had been removed twice and without our approval. In addition, at a minimum, the valve covers would have to come off and the entire valvetrain removed. Normally, the cylinder heads are removed to keep the lifters from dropping into the motor when the camshaft is removed, but Heffner says he has a tool that doesn’t require removing the heads. However, disassembling and removing the valvetrain was supposedly done. Thus, the engine was modified from its original assembly. The moment that the engine is opened, the warranty is clearly voided. It also introduces the possibility for error.
I did say that I would take care of any problem that was caused by a part that we installed. However, that was before I found out that the camshaft had been changed twice.
Because the engine was slated for the supercharger, and Mashour didn’t want to wait until Paxton released theirs and have us install it, he elected to have us leave the stock injectors and fuel system on the engine, break in the motor, and have Heffner upgrade the fuel system when he was installing his supercharger package. I gave him that provision.
We cleaned and inspected the engine assembly multiple times before installation. The intake was not only cleaned by Extrude Hone, as is their normal process, we also clean out each Extrude Honed manifold with cleaner prior to assembly. The engine and car ran perfectly fine when it left here. As is common practice with a new motor, we check compression and leakdown before delivery, and all was fine and within specs. Mashour broke in the engine for more 1,000 miles, dyno-tuned it, had the supercharger installed shortly thereafter, had it tuned again, and it made fantastic power (890rwhp). I believe the engine had about 1,500 miles on it when the filings first appeared. (Someone correct me if I’m wrong about the exact mileage.) After 1,500 trouble-free miles, the camshaft was changed twice, and the lowered-compression problem occurs shortly after.
I assume the oil was changed multiple times during break-in, as we suggest with any new motor. (We changed it twice here.) I would think that with all the oil changes the car has had, at some point, someone would notice metal filings in the oil before the engine was disassembled. I was never notified of such an occurrence. (Part of the supercharger installation involves drilling and tapping the oil pan for the oil return line. This procedure does create metal filings.)
The car was driven even more. The camshaft was changed twice, and not once was anything mentioned to us about metal filings. We never heard anything other than the car made insane amounts of horsepower. Yet after the camshaft was changed twice, the power started to fall. I cannot honor a warranty in a situation where error could have been introduced by someone else, and when there is a warranty issue, I will not just take someone else’s word for it. That’s why we include in our warranty that we must have the car or complete, unassembled engine here for inspection.
Without any prior approval (especially written, per our warranty), the engine was partially disassembled by Heffner. Jason called to say there was a compression issue, and I requested pictures on July 26, 2003. On July 28, 2003, he emailed me, “I’ll send you the pictures tomorrow morning, my camera is at home.” After many attempts via email and phone to get any sort of pictures, I finally received eight pictures on September 29, 2003, over two months later. Four of the eight pictures are somewhat blurry or inconclusive. (This is precisely why we require that the engine be in-house for disassembly.)
Since we built the motor, we absolutely have to have the opportunity and the right to inspect the engine in-house to determine the source of the issue. We were never allowed that opportunity, since the engine was fully and completely disassembled elsewhere and not at APEX.
The fact that people who are not involved in this are posting saying they know all the facts is a bit disconcerting. Do you know all the facts? Who is giving you those facts? Until now, you’ve only heard one side of the story, and you’re a third party. This is between Mashour, Heffner, and APEX Motorsports.
Finally, what would other tuners do if put in this situation? I find it extremely hard to believe that, given what is clearly stated in the warranty and what modifications were performed to the car after it was delivered, they would act any differently.
