GRNBGON
Enthusiast
And no license number ever given to us. Not a legal raffle. MCVO was always out front with this information and openly had the drawing. VCA took it away from the MCVO. Wonder why??????????
MCVO Separates from National VCA
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And no license number ever given to us. Not a legal raffle. MCVO was always out front with this information and openly had the drawing. VCA took it away from the MCVO. Wonder why??????????
TowDawg
Enthusiast
Seriously Bob? From a lawyer who want to see everything?
The raffle location was not where it was stated.
There was no legal registration number.
Who did the drawing?
Was it supervised? By who?
Why wasn't it done as in years past (when it was registered with the state and done legally)?
Hell, even I was the winner I'd be sweating bullets until the questions were answered.
The raffle location was not where it was stated.
There was no legal registration number.
Who did the drawing?
Was it supervised? By who?
Why wasn't it done as in years past (when it was registered with the state and done legally)?
Hell, even I was the winner I'd be sweating bullets until the questions were answered.
Fair enough. I agree. The Board should answer the questions. Two of the questions have been at least partially answered on these Forums already. Here is Lee's post from 5 days ago: The whole process was video taped and an individual was picked at random who had no connection to the Club or any individuals in the club. But she was a person with a significant management authority of a type decided by your full board as part of the process. She took the process from opening the sealed box of tickets with the unbroken label to filling the drum to closeup shots of each winning ticket, including verbal call outs of names and ticket numbers, to repacking the box, sealing it and using a sharpie to mark the seals so they could not be broken. Your full board of directors met and approved this process. So if there are any worries down the road as to who witnessed this the video can be made available. The full process was discussed with the board and the board arrived at a bulletproof way to run this so there would be no issues.
Anyone worrying about any connection to anyone in the club will be amused at her referring to it as The VAPOR club of America. And the 2013 VAPOR will be awarded to....................
Now check your voice mails!!
Anyone worrying about any connection to anyone in the club will be amused at her referring to it as The VAPOR club of America. And the 2013 VAPOR will be awarded to....................
Now check your voice mails!!
TowDawg
Enthusiast
Lee saying something happened doesn't mean jack s&%# to anyone anymore. He has lost all respect and trust of 99% of anyone aware of the current issues. Honestly, if he told me the sky was blue, I would walk outside to look and make sure it still was.
Even if his statement is true, where is the video tape? Who was the woman who drew it?
Then back to all of the legal questions I don't feel like typing again.
When you state that it's going to be drawn at Woodhouse and then they have to come out 1 or 2 days before the drawing and say it's not being drawn there (and never was), that throws up some serious flags.
...And am I the only one who sees the irony in the wording above? I guess Lee really is telling the truth. They drew for, and gave away some VAPOR.
Even if his statement is true, where is the video tape? Who was the woman who drew it?
Then back to all of the legal questions I don't feel like typing again.
When you state that it's going to be drawn at Woodhouse and then they have to come out 1 or 2 days before the drawing and say it's not being drawn there (and never was), that throws up some serious flags.
...And am I the only one who sees the irony in the wording above? I guess Lee really is telling the truth. They drew for, and gave away some VAPOR.
TowDawg
Enthusiast
Wait until you read the email the presidents just got.
At least he's gone, but his reasoning is beyond a complete joke. Why even bother making that lame ass excuse? You screwed up, got caught and got the axe. End of story.
That takes care of ONE of the MANY issues.
At least he's gone, but his reasoning is beyond a complete joke. Why even bother making that lame ass excuse? You screwed up, got caught and got the axe. End of story.
That takes care of ONE of the MANY issues.
johniew398
Enthusiast
Yea, and here's the video of the drawing:
Ok, so it's not that drawing, it's a drawing none-the-less.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0G833EdODM
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To all VCA Region Presidents:
Your board of directors have been spending significant time over the last 2 weeks working through some big steps to propel the club forward. We have committed as a group that a focused charge to create significant and swift changes is needed. There are a number of extremely significant objectives the team has laid out, all of which keep the membership and the club's health at the forefront. You'll be hearing of the many changes that we plan on making over the coming weeks.
Lee will be addressing the club in a letter by the end of this week on some of these changes as well as transition to a new President going forward. Lee understands that there is a lot of passion about the current direction of the club, he has constantly and diligently been working for the betterment of the club. Lee outlined to the board last night that his job is going to require a lot of time over the next quarter and that a transition to a new President will be the best for the club at this point. We thanked Lee for putting the club’s needs ahead of his office. Again, Lee will be addressing all of you directly in the coming days.
You are welcome to share this with your members.
Sincerely,
Maurice Liang
VCA Secretary
on behalf of the VCA Board of Directors
Your board of directors have been spending significant time over the last 2 weeks working through some big steps to propel the club forward. We have committed as a group that a focused charge to create significant and swift changes is needed. There are a number of extremely significant objectives the team has laid out, all of which keep the membership and the club's health at the forefront. You'll be hearing of the many changes that we plan on making over the coming weeks.
Lee will be addressing the club in a letter by the end of this week on some of these changes as well as transition to a new President going forward. Lee understands that there is a lot of passion about the current direction of the club, he has constantly and diligently been working for the betterment of the club. Lee outlined to the board last night that his job is going to require a lot of time over the next quarter and that a transition to a new President will be the best for the club at this point. We thanked Lee for putting the club’s needs ahead of his office. Again, Lee will be addressing all of you directly in the coming days.
You are welcome to share this with your members.
Sincerely,
Maurice Liang
VCA Secretary
on behalf of the VCA Board of Directors
Dear Maurice. Thank you for your letter. Please do the members a favor and post the answers to the simple questions that have been asked about the raffle; affirm that the recent less restrictive censorship policy regarding posts will stay in place; and, if possible, set forth a brief description of each of "the number of extremely significant objectives the team has laid out, all of which keep the membership and the club's health at the forefront". I think that it is urgent that this be done to eliminate some of the frustration and anger being exhibited by quite a few members and to perhaps start a conversation with the MCVO leadership to reconsider their intent to secede from the VCA. Thank you for your prompt attention to this post. Best regards, Bob
Everything in life involves timing. Anger and impaitance gets no one anything. It is just a waste of energy and usually just f***s things up. It is a losing strategy. Some people believe in patiently working behind the scenes to try to help mediate a problem and solve it. Others just post their anger and do nothing. There has now been some movement. Hopefully, there will be more. I wish all the parties well and hope that more information is now shared with the Membership as soon as possible.
It happened primarily because of the letter from Chrysler ( the 800 pound gorilla in the room) and was undoubtedly accelerated by the MCVO disclosure of an intent to secede. The rest of the noise was of limited utility despite whatever grandiose ideas some may have regarding the importance of their posts. Most, but not all, of the member posts rehashed problems already well known to all of the National and probably most, if not all, of the local leadership who with 20/20 hindsight could have, and should have, done more to address the issues before now. But these are all good people who are volunteers trying to do their best. It is easy to Monday morning quarterback their actions. It is much harder to be there and actually do something.
Wrong again. There are some good people but there are also some very shady, greedy power obsessed people. All of which will come to light soon enough.
And PLEASE stop with the ode to "volunteerism". There are some very generous perks when you're on the so called leadership level.
Did you get a trip to Germany with your wife to watch the "Ring run in 2011?
Funny, I don't recall going either. But I sure as hell bet I helped pay for it.
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
Ive never seen someone so intent on being right about everything. Jeez.
LifeIsGood
Enthusiast
You guys just don't understand...Bob knows that these guys would have immediately come clean...none of our rabble-rousing helped at all. Definition of rabble-rousing...posting threads asking about the financials of the club, disagreeing with the leadership of the club, voicing our frustrations with our regional Presidents, voicing our frustrations on the VCA website. We should've run for office and in 10 or so years...things might have changed. Oh no I forgot...It's all about 'mediation' (lawyer speak for cha-ching).
Probable conflict of interest between VPA and Chrysler dealers and site vendors? Still there. Probable conflict of interest with the Marshalls in the VPA and day to day running of the VCA and board affairs? Still there. Jon B suspension? Still there. Legality questions about the raffle? Still there. Chryslers concerns with the board? Still there.
TrackAire
Enthusiast
Bob,
You cannot hide the fact that many of us have tried to bring real issues to light for over 3 years. I personally was involved with a specific line item on the financials that I brought to Chris Marshalls attention. It was something that I have experience with and pointed that out to him. He PM'd me (apparently means personal message, not private message) to tell me that Lee would be contacting me. This specific expense was 2 to 3 times higher than it should have been. That was approximately April 10th, 2013 and nobody from the VCA ever contacted me to discuss solutions or corrections for this issue.
Financials have not been release anywhere close to a timely matter in over 3 years. **** style suspensions with middle of the night meetings to increase the bans? You want to continue waiting to get some resolution?......that didn't work out too good for the **** during ******'s run, did it?
Bob, the "Boys in Power" have done and would have not done anything the members requested until their house of cards crashed in on them. Patience is a waste of time when the truth is out there.
Bob, I've always respected your opinions but at this point, I have to let you know that members are looking at your posts on this thread and are very much losing faith in your true intentions. This is not a lynch mob mentality, the issues have been brought up for years. You can only hold down people so long. The National VCA mentality is beyond condescending. What people are posting now (what you disagree with) is very minor to what really could be posted if members really wanted to stain the "Boys in Power".
At some point, it really is better to say nothing than lose your reputation. No matter what happens to the VCA, tomorrow the sun will rise, Viper owners will continue to love and post about their cars. Everything always works out for the best, have faith.
Cheers,
George
madninjaskillz
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Given how vehemently Baghdad Bob in defending the guys with blood on their hands has probably ruined his crediblity with many here. The thing about credibility is, you don't get a second chance. Leopards don't change their spots.
Why have there still been no changes? I hope more regional clubs take the lead from MCVO and secede from the union. There's nothing saying that the family cannot get back together once the proper changes have been made.
Why have there still been no changes? I hope more regional clubs take the lead from MCVO and secede from the union. There's nothing saying that the family cannot get back together once the proper changes have been made.
virginiavenom
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VCA Forum Staff moderates hate. comparing people to ******...well that's going to get changed by "VCA Forum Staff" insinuating the current VCA leadership is a "Regime" has negative connotations, so that will get edited. calling Bob tampax, I mean Pantax, Baghdad Bob is a personal attack, that's going to get moderated........waits for another PM.....Lee Stubberfield should be forcibly removed from the club yesterday, same with the Marshalls.
Well said.
I see a lot of us that used to hang out here a lot that now are 'enthusiasts'
I see a lot of us that used to hang out here a lot that now are 'enthusiasts'
There are indeed some very smart tech guys at the Alley! The verbal abuse is just that. The old "sticks and stones" thing. I've met a couple of the members and sponsers and am better off from it. Art
virginiavenom
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exactly AJ...purely a front to keep the true rif raff out. many very nice guys....even Dave is an ok guy. B)
Guys. You all have a life. Or at least I hope you do. Read my posts with less anger. Do you really think that an entrenched bureacracy responds to anger? Is this your expereince in your real lives? Have you ever gotten anything done using anger? I have not disagreed that there are problems. And, as I posted above and previously, those problems, except for the problem with Chrysler, were already known about before the last two weeks by everybody. The only real difference between our views is how to approach fixing the problems. I do not see how name calling and abusive language helps. It just pushes people up against a wall; makes them dig in; and complicates the repair job.
I do not believe that any of the upcoming changes would occur or have occurred without the disclosure of the Chrysler letter with the second most motivational event being the threat of the MCVO secession. You have disagreed with that. Fine that is your choice. The personal attacks on me just go to the character of those who make them; add nothing to the discussion; and are a waste of time and energy.
I do not believe that any of the upcoming changes would occur or have occurred without the disclosure of the Chrysler letter with the second most motivational event being the threat of the MCVO secession. You have disagreed with that. Fine that is your choice. The personal attacks on me just go to the character of those who make them; add nothing to the discussion; and are a waste of time and energy.
TowDawg
Enthusiast
Bob, I agree that patience is a virtue when dealing with negotiations (I do this all day for large supplier contracts). However, there are some big differences with this situation.
1. Patience is out the window for a lot of people, as this has been going on for years. This is the first crack of light that a lot of people are seeing, and those that have been fighting the fight for so long do not want to just let it settle down and get swept under the rug. Major changes are needed.
2. This case involves a lot of clear wrongdoing, shadiness and attempts to keep it all hidden.
3. There should not be negotiations even going on where people can dig their heels in. This should be a hostile takeover with decisive actions taken. Cut ties, remove people from positions, release financials, answer questions open and honestly, etc. These should be immediate and forceful moves.
1. Patience is out the window for a lot of people, as this has been going on for years. This is the first crack of light that a lot of people are seeing, and those that have been fighting the fight for so long do not want to just let it settle down and get swept under the rug. Major changes are needed.
2. This case involves a lot of clear wrongdoing, shadiness and attempts to keep it all hidden.
3. There should not be negotiations even going on where people can dig their heels in. This should be a hostile takeover with decisive actions taken. Cut ties, remove people from positions, release financials, answer questions open and honestly, etc. These should be immediate and forceful moves.
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