My Observations about VCA - This is NOT Good

[GRANGER73]

The question is how many members need JonB's expertise as compared to the others? Herb should be helpful as he is compensated. I would venture to bet that JonB serves a substantially greater % of members than the other 4 combined. Not saying their input isn't beneficial, but for the most part the Dans are specialists. I wouldn't sell a Jon short.

 

[Bobpantax]

There are many knowlegable sources for parts including the parts departments of many dealers who have decided to meet Internet pricing.

As a vendor of parts Jon would be awfully silly to favor one club over another with the increased and intense competition for parts dollars these days. I think most cusdtomers want good prices and service from their vendors not politics.

As I said, Jon does not have the technical capability of Herb Helbig, Dan Lesser, Dan Cragin or Mark Jorgensen. That's just fact. No selling short intended. Particularly since Jon is over six feet tall. I am sure that Jon is willing to share whateer knowledge he does have with customers who are not just trying to pick his brain regardless of whether the person belongs to no club or either club.





QUOTE. I would venture to bet that JonB serves a substantially greater % of members than the other 4 combined. Not saying their input isn't beneficial, but for the most part the Dans are specialists. I wouldn't sell a Jon short.[/QUOTE]

 

[Coloviper]

Every time I come back here hoping things have changed and the issues are being resolved so a decision can be made on potentially rejoining, it is just more of the same BS. Honestly the "they are bad, we are better" type of responses are just so out of line. I mean those blind agents of VCA, you have to see your attitude is driving away those on the fence of rejoining. Did the renew letter lessons not teach you anything. I will say that this thread should have been in the members session and while it is extensive and been rehashed, those on the fence of rejoining want some answers. It is in the best interest to try to answer the concerns of members. I will also say there is no need to reference the VOA in any of this as the VOA has nothing to do with the what goes on in this VCA as they are two different clubs. Blame for these actions is with all involved here.

This situation is not a Sith Lord in Star Wars where it is absolutes, (one or the other). Grow up fellows, members can be in either one. The VOA will be fine, so there is no need to say that club is better than this club and vice versa. So the vOA had seed money, who in the VCA should care? No one! Boys and girls this is school yard actions. "Paul pulled Sally's pigtails in the school yard" attitude. VOA does not need this kind of promotion as it will be fine. The VCA can be fine too, but transparency and change is in order to gain the mass of people to rejoin. Those that open the window and light their cigars with dollar bills because they just don't care how their money is spent or how it is used just blows my mind. That is the problem with America today. I don't see good things for VCA if this mode of operation is promoted or let to be promoted.

Lastly those who want to blame others on the board, some who left VCA for VOA and some who stayed at VCA obviously have never been on a board before. It is not that easy or straight forward to lay blame. No matter how some individuals want to spin this to discredit one or the other, you can not judge some of these people by the actions the club made. Watch the movie "Jobs" to see what can happen. Those expressing otherwise know better on saying so.

Disappointing to say the least that bygones can not be bygones and move on. If the club wants the real image for the future to be clear to members and future members, Board members will need to speak up because having some of these people respond about not caring about how dues are used or the myriad of ridiculous Bob responses are really leaving a very bad taste in the mouths of those considering rejoining and those future potential members. It is up to you.

 

[72hemi]

Every time I come back here hoping things have changed and the issues are being resolved so a decision can be made on potentially rejoining, it is just more of the same BS. Honestly the "they are bad, we are better" type of responses are just so out of line. I mean those blind agents of VCA, you have to see your attitude is driving away those on the fence of rejoining. Did the renew letter lessons not teach you anything. I will say that this thread should have been in the members session and while it is extensive and been rehashed, those on the fence of rejoining want some answers. It is in the best interest to try to answer the concerns of members. I will also say there is no need to reference the VOA in any of this as the VOA has nothing to do with the what goes on in this VCA as they are two different clubs. Blame for these actions is with all involved here.

This situation is not a Sith Lord in Star Wars where it is absolutes, (one or the other). Grow up fellows, members can be in either one. The VOA will be fine, so there is no need to say that club is better than this club and vice versa. So the vOA had seed money, who in the VCA should care? No one! Boys and girls this is school yard actions. "Paul pulled Sally's pigtails in the school yard" attitude. VOA does not need this kind of promotion as it will be fine. The VCA can be fine too, but transparency and change is in order to gain the mass of people to rejoin. Those that open the window and light their cigars with dollar bills because they just don't care how their money is spent or how it is used just blows my mind. That is the problem with America today. I don't see good things for VCA if this mode of operation is promoted or let to be promoted.

Lastly those who want to blame others on the board, some who left VCA for VOA and some who stayed at VCA obviously have never been on a board before. It is not that easy or straight forward to lay blame. No matter how some individuals want to spin this to discredit one or the other, you can not judge some of these people by the actions the club made. Watch the movie "Jobs" to see what can happen. Those expressing otherwise know better on saying so.

Disappointing to say the least that bygones can not be bygones and move on. If the club wants the real image for the future to be clear to members and future members, Board members will need to speak up because having some of these people respond about not caring about how dues are used or the myriad of ridiculous Bob responses are really leaving a very bad taste in the mouths of those considering rejoining and those future potential members. It is up to you.

Well stated!

 

[JonB]

Ok BobP you baited me into a reply by using my name (and skilled innuendo) several times. You have proven yourself to be a master of baiting folks here. Your baiting mastery is only exceeded by the master Con Man himself. You are a smart guy on taxes, but clueless (or conned?) into saying with a straight face:""""""First, the "he" created the business from nothing. Second, price competition among parts vendors is fierce and that is good for all of us. Third, one of the most important functions of VPA is to store and maintain the extensive physical Viper heritage that was delivered to VPA in many truckloads by Chrysler."""" 1) CM (con-man) conned the *** into loaning $50k of tax-sheltered startup funds to buy inventory and pay legal-fees to begin a business. He virtually copied 100% elements of an existing business model to do this. He then systematically quashed the good name and marketing network of that business by manipulating rules and then bylaws. Obvious Restraint-Of-Trade as well as libelous tap-dancing on website and mags. Your Buddy.He has NOT paid back the startup loan, nor any interest; Nor operated with volunteers as promised. Nor paid any promised profit to the Club. As a good tax-guy will tell you, shifting customary tax-sheltered printing costs, shipping costs, and consulting costs of the Not-For-Profit Club, to tax-deductible expenses of the for-profit subsidiary is most likely inappropriate. Am I wrong? Care to comment professionally on that point? Your wheelhouse. I concede.2) I was deeply honored when Team Viper asked ONE customer to help "Roast" Herb at his retirement party. That was me. I have worshiped the man, and his OEM skills and knowledge since 1993. But during his employment I also badgered him about his "closed" mind to ANYTHING aftermarket. He was, and is 1000% Chrysler-Product-Focused. My/Our 'hero' is virtually clueless on most aftermarket product advice. As I have told him directly, he is now a "Paid Celebrity Endorser" of the ConMan's Business. I also say this: If the club needs to pay someone, I would rather see DOUBLE the club's treasury go to Herb, than probably anyone else. Your selfless help from 1989 - 2010 is now rewarded. Negotiate for MORE $$ Herbie. 3) As far as my advice quotient: One of your 'named' guys actually stated that "if he gets asked a Viper question that he cannot answer, he can usually find the answer in Forum Archives, by searching keywords and JonB. Jon has answered virtually every question in the Viper world." I was very flattered to see that, and in some cases 'The student has surpassed the teacher" in the Viper world. You are right, I refer "internal" motor mods to those who are fair and honest and knowledgeable vendor-competitors. But I can probably still dismantle and rebuild a Jaguar V12 faster than they can. 4) Bob, don't feel bad or alone at being Conned, tricked, and manipulated. But Wake Up. Bernie Madoff suckered some fine, upstanding, and well-meaning souls. You know some of them! Con-Man Cultists can do this. I was conned til about 2008, when my CPA / NW-Club treasurer first cried 'foul'. The club's BODs since 2007 were victims. Some were willing victims. Some were not, and were purged. Some truly good folks in those BODs. Not many of them have admitted or apologized for 'getting religion late' but they did set out to restore some credibility to a once-proud collection of owners, whatever you choose to call it. I just returned from NARRA-Viper Cup Sebring, where I attended a nice lunch held by one of the organizations, but attended by Viper owners of the TWO FL Orgs! I called it a "Non-Denominational Viper Event." It was fun. They did not even know it was held in the same media center that covered the 1997 FIA-Manufacturers Championship event. Oreca / Team Viper won. (I was there too.) You missed a nice FL event Bob. Some of the folks you are baiting here were also there, in person, sharing their Viper ownership passion. Real passion shows up, on more than just a keyboard-forum.

 

[Bobpantax]

Thank you for the post Jon. Don't be a stranger here. Your wit is missed. Like calling me a master baiter. I'll give you credit for it even if you did not intend it. LOL.

 

[Gustfront]

Thank you for the post Jon. Don't be a stranger here. Your wit is missed. Like calling me a master baiter. I'll give you credit for it even if you did not intend it. LOL.

Good old Bob, comment on anything but the facts. Your nickname is aptly earned. Enjoy

 

[GRANGER73]

Sometimes knowledge is more than knowing the definitive answer to every question. Knowing who to steer the questioner to for the best results is also a part of knowledge. If you could pick only one person to navigate all the questions regarding your Viper, Jon would hands down be the best choice. Again nothing against the four other gentlemen. If Jon doesn't have the answer, he usually knows who does.

 

[Bobpantax]

You are just jealous that Jon did not call you a master baiter.

I do not know whether Jon' take on the facts that he is alleging is correct but according to his post, he is stating that VPA has been paying expenses previously paid by the VCA. If true, doesn't that go against what you and some other hostile posters have been spewing out on this site for months?

By the way, there is nothing wrong with VPA paying expenses that are related to its business. Herb Helbig's fee is certainly related to VPA's business. It is a Mopar dealer and the repository of the Viper physical heritage.

I am glad that Jon and I agree about Herb's importance to the Viper Nation and the Viper's history.

Good old Bob, comment on anything but the facts. Your nickname is aptly earned. Enjoy

 

[Paul Hawker]

Jon.

Good to hear from you here too. Guess I am just an amateur baiter.

As far as Moparboyy posts, we need to stop taking them seriously. He is posting over on the VOA forum how much fun he has been having screwing with our forum. Even the other posters over there were calling him a bit of a tool for his hijinks.

While he was demanding to be taken seriously over here, he was forum bragging how he was baiting us all over here, and how we took the bait in trying to answer all his allegations.

 

[3whitevipers]

Jon B--
This is Dave from the NARRA Sebring event that you graciously provided goodies for. I was the guy you gave the box of goodies to that were distributed at the lunch. I don't think anyone can possibly disregard all the help that you have provided to the VCA members for many years. I remember talking with you about the 2 clubs and your response was classic--you just want customers regardless of club affiliation. Thanks so much!!!
In terms of the VCA/VOA situation--I'm glad a few posts have stated the obvious, that the VCA problems developed over time when the powers to be, during some of that time, are the very people now starting the VOA. Something to think about at least for me--that's why I rejoined the VCA. Seems to my feeble mind that with the same folks in charge at the new club, the same thing could happen again with the VOA. Just a thought that I fully expect will be vilified every way possible--however all the vilification will not change those simple facts. I'm a simple guy.
My last thought has also been stated in this thred--Let's just move on--Mopar Boy--we have heard it all for months now--get a life, go to the VOA with good wishes from me and good wishes for the VOA.--Dave

 

[TowDawg]

I do not know whether Jon' take on the facts that he is alleging is correct but according to his post, he is stating that VPA has been paying expenses previously paid by the VCA. If true, doesn't that go against what you and some other hostile posters have been spewing out on this site for months?

I have no idea what you even mean by the above statement. It is a known fact that Herb's salary being moved to the VPA was somehow a savings for the VCA. If the VPA is owned by the VCA, then how did that actually save any money? And, as Jon said, it sure looks like you shifted expenses from a non-profit to a for-profit in order to lower the for-profit's taxable income. Correct or incorrect, it looks that way.

Also, as has been said, you are very good at making jokes about fact you can't dispute with your blind support. That, or just ignore them and go off on a tangent about something else.
For instance:
$50k was originally "loaned" to VPA (Chris) to get started. This is well known and factual information.
How much of that $50k has been paid back?
The entire premise and mission statement of the VPA was that ALL PROFITS GO DIRECTLY TO THE VCA.
How much money (true, traceable DOLLARS) has the VPA given the VCA?
The answer to both questions above is $ZERO.

This is where facts and numbers cannot be disputed, so let's just ignore them.

There are many other well known issues as well, but let's just stick to these for now.

I know I'll get jumped on for beating a dead horse, but guess what. The horse keeps getting beat on the same issues because those issues have never been answered. It is easier to just ignore the questions and paint the people asking them as "troublemakers". I have been labeled as one for a while now (even "moderated" and cut off while I was a paying member) for asking simple questions that were ignored or I was accused of "making it all up" and told that everything is just peachy. While I hate to see the club in the shape it's in, it was also very liberating to have a lot of this brought into the open (the issues, not answers, as we still don't have those) and show that the "trouble makers" who had disciplined for "spreading lies", were actually the ones who had noticed things didn't seem right and the "supreme powers" were actually the ones who had been lying and misleading the unknowing people of the club.

Am I a member of the VOA? Yes.
What does that have to with wanting the questions answered and things fixed in the VCA? Nothing.
Does that mean that I don't want to see those things fixed (and questions answered), so that the VCA can succeed in the future? Absolutely not.
In fact, the reason I (and many others) keep wanting (and asking) for these things is because we DO want to see the VCA continue to exist, get things fixed, and hopefully have the VCA and VOA back as one, united club sometime in the future. The longer the VCA continues to ignore the valid questions, bury their head in the sand, and try to cast blame at anyone and everyone who just wants to see everything "come clean" and get fixed, the more and more members will go elsewhere (whether that is to the VOA or to no club at all).

 

[JonB]

My posts dont retain any paragraph separation dammit......................................................................................I only posted here today because I was alerted that BP was chatting about me, diminishing my value here as did the Marshalls for past 3 years. (But maybe not for too much longer?) >>>.....................It has been difficult for me to hang around here, [much less help,] a club whose key leaders wanted my name censored and livelihood squashed since opening their own competing business in 2010. Especially after all I felt I had done FOR the club since 1994. (I know, I sound like: 'Woe Is Me.' Sorry. )>>>..................It took SRT to finally concur, and cry "Foul." And SRT then got attacked in the process, by the same con-sters!! Those con-people insiders are STILL COLLECTING management fees for Month-To-Month Dues, + VPA Wages, +ViperMag Advertising payments, plus travel-budgets unknown, Raffle revenues unknown, and have been collecting it under both old and new *** watches! >>>....................... The Cons are far more "evil' than any of the enthusiastic, well-meaning and 'reform minded' folks like Steve911, MoParBoyy, etc. Please believe me when I say Id rather have a pack of enthusiastic reformers posting questions and observations, than 5-6 invisible con-men enjoying your treasury unquestioned. >>>..........But I do believe that BOTH .orgs are doing due dues dilligence (!) to get as many paid members as possible. I get about 100 Viper mails a day, and MANY of these folks ask for "VCA or VOA Discounts" because they plan to cover all their bases and join BOTH .orgs! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A Portent: A huge meteor flew over Arizona 12/11, just last nite. It cast a shadow on Marvy Marv, who made the insider con-games possible. And who got so tangled in his own puppet-strings that he became hog-tied. The strings became a rope. I bet the Arizona meteor portends that "a change is coming, and that right soon". We shall soon see...... BobP

 

[Paul Hawker]

Jon.

Just for the record, I would like to post my own financial dealings with VCA as a Western Zone Director under two different administrations.

I always paid my own way to and from all Board of Directors meetings (usually using airline miles), VOI's, any regional events, and never received a dime in payment for any raffles, advertising nor any other official VCA event. I always paid my full dues, regular and Venom. I paid for all raffle tickets received and was never given anything of value except for awards, some embroider shirts and do-dads (you know those things…SWAG0 We, and the club Presidents were sometimes given discounts on VOI attendance, because we needed to go there an extra day early to attend the full day long Regional Presidents meetings.

I did receive expense reimbursements for some hotel stays and ground transportation to and from airports, but these were all accompanied by receipts. In other words, for most of the VCA volunteers this is a thank-less, and non appreciated volunteer of our time that we do for the good of the club, not for personal gain.

So please understand that many of us take umbrage when the VCA Board members are painted with a broad brush. I am in the hole for thousands of dollars of time and expenses that I have gratefully donated to be able to assist in the running of a club where no Board Member draws a paycheck. At the last SoCal Holiday party Teresa and I produced and set up all the centerpieces for each of the tables. Again, I billed VCA or the local club nothing. I paid for everything out of my own pocket. Several other club members also dug into their own pockets to make the party extra special. I believe this in not unusual, and indeed, most of the Regional Presidents i know also have negative earnings from running their club.

You call people "Cons" when they have never been convicted. You call them "evil" but should perhaps be looking in the mirror. You complain about having your livelihood squashed, then try to squash the livelihood of others. You call Moparboyy reformed minded when he posted on the VOA board that he had no interest in reforming the club, but was just screwing with it, and baiting for responses. He was even called out on it by those members. While some would say your posts are just getting revenge on those who got tired of putting up with your antics, others might call it slander.

As far as this club being disparaged by SRT, I have never heard it. I did hear Ralph curse up a storm and call the club everything in the book, but the other members of SRT seem to have no problem selling us their cars. They are most polite and seem genuine in their admiration of the VCA. Only Ralph has taken a personal interest in getting his pound of flesh. I have spoken to many Chrysler and SRT people individually, and they agree that Ralph has that side to him. They do not want to get involved with club in fighting, but just want to make and sell the best sports car on the planet.

You and I go back a long way, and I know you have a business to run, but perhaps you should refrain from disparaging the very club who's members shop at your website.

For the life of me I do not understand why you spend so much time "poking the bear" when it is so self destructive.

 

[Bobpantax]

Like many who try to analyze numbers you do not seem to have the skill set to do it. If the VCA can lawfully pay expenses that may have formaly been paid by the VCA because they are related to VPA's business there is nothing wrong with that and , that, in essence is freeing up funds for the VCA. Your post is internally inconsistent which also shows that it is a post done in anger and for the purpose of hurting the VCA, not logic.

Some are so naive that they cannot see the obvious. Jon was, and is, incredibly angry that VPA came into existence. He is also very angry that VPA was provided with the Viper heritage molds, jigs, parts, etc. It is obvious to me that he wanted those things to come to him and felt hurt when they did not. Jon alleges a conspiracy of sorts led by Chris. If that were true, Chrysler was a part of the conspiracy which is of course is an absurd allegation.

My undersatnding of the formation of VPA was that there was complete and full disclosure of the facts to the then Board and legal counsel reviewed the plan to form VPA and said that it was OK. If any past Board members are now saying that they were duped, I think that allegation is also absurd.

As for the alleged "loan" from the VCA to VPA, you do not understand the relationship of a wholly owned subsidiary to its parent. The VCA owns 100%v of VPA. It can, at any time have a loan repiad at its election. However, if the funds were put in as equity, then it is not a loan but the VCA gets basis in the stock of VPA to the extent of the investment.

Much of the past anger about this subject is due to ignorance not reality.

As for Ralph, he had a right to be very upset personally about the two letters by two people that went to Chrysler. But did he or does he have a right to act out that hurt or anger in his official capacity with SRT and Chrysler? NO. And to do so would be a breach of his duties to SRT and Chrysler as the CEO of SRT and a VP of Chrysler. Ralph is a capable person. He knows this. So all of the posts stating that he should act out his emotions in an immature and inappropriate way to punish the VCA are also absurd and insult Ralph's intelligence and maturity.

I have no idea what you even mean by the above statement. It is a known fact that Herb's salary being moved to the VPA was somehow a savings for the VCA. If the VPA is owned by the VCA, then how did that actually save any money? And, as Jon said, it sure looks like you shifted expenses from a non-profit to a for-profit in order to lower the for-profit's taxable income. Correct or incorrect, it looks that way.

Also, as has been said, you are very good at making jokes about fact you can't dispute with your blind support. That, or just ignore them and go off on a tangent about something else.
For instance:
$50k was originally "loaned" to VPA (Chris) to get started. This is well known and factual information.
How much of that $50k has been paid back?
The entire premise and mission statement of the VPA was that ALL PROFITS GO DIRECTLY TO THE VCA.
How much money (true, traceable DOLLARS) has the VPA given the VCA?
The answer to both questions above is $ZERO.

This is where facts and numbers cannot be disputed, so let's just ignore them.

There are many other well known issues as well, but let's just stick to these for now.

I know I'll get jumped on for beating a dead horse, but guess what. The horse keeps getting beat on the same issues because those issues have never been answered. It is easier to just ignore the questions and paint the people asking them as "troublemakers". I have been labeled as one for a while now (even "moderated" and cut off while I was a paying member) for asking simple questions that were ignored or I was accused of "making it all up" and told that everything is just peachy. While I hate to see the club in the shape it's in, it was also very liberating to have a lot of this brought into the open (the issues, not answers, as we still don't have those) and show that the "trouble makers" who had disciplined for "spreading lies", were actually the ones who had noticed things didn't seem right and the "supreme powers" were actually the ones who had been lying and misleading the unknowing people of the club.

Am I a member of the VOA? Yes.
What does that have to with wanting the questions answered and things fixed in the VCA? Nothing.
Does that mean that I don't want to see those things fixed (and questions answered), so that the VCA can succeed in the future? Absolutely not.
In fact, the reason I (and many others) keep wanting (and asking) for these things is because we DO want to see the VCA continue to exist, get things fixed, and hopefully have the VCA and VOA back as one, united club sometime in the future. The longer the VCA continues to ignore the valid questions, bury their head in the sand, and try to cast blame at anyone and everyone who just wants to see everything "come clean" and get fixed, the more and more members will go elsewhere (whether that is to the VOA or to no club at all).

 

[99 R/T 10]

Jon.



As far as Moparboyy posts, we need to stop taking them seriously. He is posting over on the VOA forum how much fun he has been having screwing with our forum. Even the other posters over there were calling him a bit of a tool for his hijinks.

While he was demanding to be taken seriously over here, he was forum bragging how he was baiting us all over here, and how we took the bait in trying to answer all his allegations.

His demands to be taken seriously SHOULD be taken seriously because those questions are VALID! Or don't you get that?!

 

[TowDawg]

First off, I did not say anything about Jonb's business vs the VPA. Secondly, the skill set problem is your illogical logic.
Let me break it down even simpler for you and just deal with one issue at a time.
VCA used to pay Herb.
VPA now pay Herb.
ALL PROFITS FROM VPA GO DIRECTLY TO THE VCA (The only problem is that not a single dollar has been given from the VPA to the VCA)
However, if they really did give the profits to the VCA, whatever the VPA is paying Herb would have been profit that would have been given to the VCA, which in turn would have paid Herb.
Herb still gets paid.
His salary did not magically appear from nowhere.
It still comes as a cost to the VCA, either directly or in lost profit from the VPA.

 

[Coloviper]

Bob and Paul, yah that expressed attitude will keep him and others coming back to contribute. You two are a real pair. Unbelievable! Simply classless and clueless.

 

[Paul Hawker]

When you guys hear the latest news on VPA you are going to wish you never brought this up.

Bob. If you PM me with your e-mail I'll give you the scoop.

Not sure exactly why these guys care how much the VCA is paying anybody. If I was them I would be more worried about how much Maurice is going to be getting for publishing their magazine. That should be an whole nother area to explore.

 

[TowDawg]

Another class act answer there Paul. Take a shot at the founder of the VCA because the VCA is in such a mess.
As I said above, I actually want the VCA to get things fixed and eventually we end up with one united club again. With the current leadership's inability to still answer simple questions and blame everything on someone else, it looks like we might still end up with only one club, but it won't be because the VCA recovered and became its' once proud self.

And again, trying to twist what was said. I did not mention how much Herb is paid. Only that by shifting his salary to the VPA, it did not save the VCA any money.
Enlighten me on why I'll "wish I never brought up the VPA". Did they get a new drone that's going to come after me? Other than that, what the VPA does has no effect on me.

I have simply pointed out that the VPA slogan of "where all profits go to the VCA" is a complete sham.
Show us a statement where the VPA has paid the VCA one penny. You can't.

Make sure Bob gets that PM. We wouldn't want any more secrets from the "transparent" inner circle getting out.

 

[Bobpantax]

You are confused. The VCA used to have Herb as a consultant before VPA was formed. The VCA paid him out of its then revenue sources. After VPA started to generate funds, it realized that it made sense to have Herb as its consultant since his knowedge was highly relevant to its business and the maintainence and storage of the Viper physical heritage tranferred to VPA by Chrysler. This freed up the VCA funds previously used to pay Herb as the VCA consultant. Herb's thread and any column he writes are part of VPA's marketing effort.

First off, I did not say anything about Jonb's business vs the VPA. Secondly, the skill set problem is your illogical logic.
Let me break it down even simpler for you and just deal with one issue at a time.
VCA used to pay Herb.
VPA now pay Herb.
ALL PROFITS FROM VPA GO DIRECTLY TO THE VCA (The only problem is that not a single dollar has been given from the VPA to the VCA)
However, if they really did give the profits to the VCA, whatever the VPA is paying Herb would have been profit that would have been given to the VCA, which in turn would have paid Herb.
Herb still gets paid.
His salary did not magically appear from nowhere.
It still comes as a cost to the VCA, either directly or in lost profit from the VPA.

 

[Paul Hawker]

Not going to twist your words, but I liked the ring of this.

Thanks.

 

[Bobpantax]

Aren't there three possible areas of compenation for Maurice? Reimbursement of expense as the President; reimbursement of expenses as the Editor ( I assume that he is not going to travel and buy camera equipment on his own dime) and any compensation, if any, that he receives as editor;and, whatever money, if any, he receives as an independent contractor rendering services to SRT/Chrysler.

I still do not understand the difference between the type of potential conflict that was suggested might exist between the VCA and VPA ( a MOPAR dealer) and the type of potential conflict that might exist when someone is the President of the club; its magazine's editor; and an independent contractor to SRT/Chrysler. Also, shouldn't Maurice have to disclose, like Chris was asked to, the amount of any compensation he might have received or is receiving from SRT/Chrysler?

When you guys hear the latest news on VPA you are going to wish you never brought this up.

Bob. If you PM me with your e-mail I'll give you the scoop.

Not sure exactly why these guys care how much the VCA is paying anybody. If I was them I would be more worried about how much Maurice is going to be getting for publishing their magazine. That should be an whole nother area to explore.

 

[Camfab]

Guys don't go there, it's really not going to help anything here or there.

 

[Gustfront]

When you guys hear the latest news on VPA you are going to wish you never brought this up.

Bob. If you PM me with your e-mail I'll give you the scoop.

Not sure exactly why these guys care how much the VCA is paying anybody. If I was them I would be more worried about how much Maurice is going to be getting for publishing their magazine. That should be an whole nother area to explore.

Wow aren't you a class act. lol. As soon as the questions and the answers start to hit home...the finger pointing and name calling starts. What a pair.

btw, the other club (which I am not a member of) does have something stopping it from degenerating into this mess you call a club....the Marshal's, Lee Stubberfield, and Marv Spatz are not involved over there.

Keep up the good work though you and Bobby P. More people are signing up with the new club after reading the stuff y'all post.

 

[TowDawg]

Bob, obviously I still didn't make it simple enough for you to follow, so I'll try one more time. After this, I don't think I can dumb it down for you any further.
I will use a number of $30k for Herb's salary (I have not seen anything factual that this is a real number. I'm using a number as an example.)
All assumptions are also based off of the fact that "all of the VPA profits go directly to the VCA".
BEFORE VPA:
VCA pays Herb: (-$30k)
AFTER VPA:
VPA profit: $50k
This $50k would then go to the VCA if the VPA was not paying Herb.
VPA pays Herb: (-$30k)
VPA profit after paying Herb: $20k ($50k-$30k)=$20k
VPA gives profit of $20k to VCA.

SO instead of the VCA paying $30k to Herb, they only get $20k from the VPA because that same $30k was deducted from the $50k they would have received if the VPA hadn't paid Herb.

That's pretty simple math to follow, yet you still can't grasp it. Instead you go back to spin it and attacking Maurice. It really is sad when something is this simple and obvious and that you can't see it. I know you're not a dumb man, so it has to be the blinders you have on.

 

[TowDawg]

And as far as Maurice disclosing income received Chrysler like Chris was asked to. How in the hell are you even TRYING to make these look like the same thing?
If Maurice does independent contracting for Chrysler and gets paid, why is it anyone's business how much he is paid? We don't own him or his consulting company. Any possible income from the club for the magazine should (and will be) disclosed.
Chris on the other hand, was/is NOT and INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR BEING PAID BY CHRYSLER. He was running a business started with the club's (meaning every member's) money.That same business was started so that "all profits go directly to the VCA". Well, $0 have been given to the VCA from the VPA. Since the VPA is owned by the club and no money is coming back to the club, that must mean there is no profit. If the VPA is doing so much business, yet there is no profit, then the members deserve to know where that profit is going.

 

[MoparBoyy]

When you guys hear the latest news on VPA you are going to wish you never brought this up.

Bob. If you PM me with your e-mail I'll give you the scoop.

Not sure exactly why these guys care how much the VCA is paying anybody. If I was them I would be more worried about how much Maurice is going to be getting for publishing their magazine. That should be an whole nother area to explore.

So let me get this striaght... Bob a standard member of the VCA is getting special treatment over all other paid members of VCA? why is that?

you wont answer questions about your own club on issues that actually exist, but you will make up stories about voa??? This is a perfect example of what the vca does. nobody is paid.. in VOA.. same cannot be said about VCA.

 

[TowDawg]

I honesty have no issue of people being paid for their time in either club. AS LONG AS IT IS DONE ABOVE BOARDS AND OPENLY DISCLOSED.

 

[MoparBoyy]

I honesty have no issue of people being paid for their time in either club. AS LONG AS IT IS DONE ABOVE BOARDS AND OPENLY DISCLOSED.

I 100% agree. it would be nice if the person getting paid didn't make up the amount they were getting paid too