My Observations about VCA - This is NOT Good

[Bobpantax]

Yet. What about after the first year? Isn't that when the expense reimbursement kicks in? What else might change?

Please stop insinuating and perpetuating this lie as the truth. It's simply not true. There are NO PAID POSITIONS at VOA.

 

[MoparBoyy]

Yet. What about after the first year? Isn't that when the expense reimbursement kicks in? What else might change?

Bob, if you'd like to discuss VOA business, perhaps posting them on VOA looking for answers, this is the VCA. We are here to talk about the VCA.

 

[ACRucrazy]

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[GRANGER73]

When you guys hear the latest news on VPA you are going to wish you never brought this up.
Bob. If you PM me with your e-mail I'll give you the scoop.

Now why would you offer that information just to Bob, and not make it available to all the paid members? Besides with Bob's advocacy for disclosure, he would be obliged to share with all members. How about announcing something substantive like a copy of the new bylaws or a copy of the financials? How are we to decide whether or not to re-up, when we can't even review the bylaws?

 

[TrackAire]

A little "birdie" just told me what the surprise from the VPA is going to be....Fart-Proof Seat Covers. With this fantastic accessory, you can now sell your Viper and honestly claim nobody has farted in the seats. They are available in three great scents.......Spin-Control Strawberry, Transparency Tabu and Fruity Financials.

Cheers,
George

 

[Bobpantax]

You are right about disclosure but if someone tells me something with an expectation of privilege, I cannot disclose it. I will say, as Dan has already stated, that everyone, even the splinters, should be pleased with the news.

Now why would you offer that information just to Bob, and not make it available to all the paid members? Besides with Bob's advocacy for disclosure, he would be obliged to share with all members. How about announcing something substantive like a copy of the new bylaws or a copy of the financials? How are we to decide whether or not to re-up, when we can't even review the bylaws?

 

[Bobpantax]

Really? Then why do you keep pimping the new club directly and undirectly on this site? And why is the map in post 92 posted here? And why do you have the phrase "proud member of the splinter group" at the bottom of every post?

Did you figure out how to get around the protective algorithms yet? C'mon. I know that you can do it.

Bob, if you'd like to discuss VOA business, perhaps posting them on VOA looking for answers, this is the VCA. We are here to talk about the VCA.

 

[GRANGER73]

You are right about disclosure but if someone tells me something with an expectation of privilege, I cannot disclose it. I will say, as Dan has already stated, that everyone, even the splinters, should be pleased with the news.

Bob, why should you be given privileged information not available to others of class and kind? It is one thing to give extend you this special treatment. It is however very disconcerting that a public announcement would precede this discriminatory act. Really surprised that you would accept this preferential treatment.

 

[MoparBoyy]

Really? Then why do you keep pimping the new club directly and undirectly on this site? And why is the map in post 92 posted here? And why do you have the phrase "proud member of the splinter group" at the bottom of every post?

Did you figure out how to get around the protective algorithms yet? C'mon. I know that you can do it.

i have never pimped the VOA here, i have only been here and asked questions about the VCA. YOU keep bringing up VOA. I am not the one who posted the map, get your eyes checked.

Dan, the president of VCA refered to people like me as the splinter group. just paying homage to 'dear ruler"

 

[ferraritoviper]

Heywood!!!

 

[eucharistos]

i'd be repping some folk in this thread if possible

 

[MI Viper]

Well,
I'm new here and a new Viper owner, (1month w/ a 2009 Red Gen IV Vert) and I hope that things can get better between the 2 clubs, we also have big offshore powerboats and I seen the same thing happen there and all it did was pit powerboating friends against each other. At the end of the day, we all have a very unique common bond, we are lucky enough to own 1 of the world's greatest super cars! I hope that everything settles out, until then I guess I will just standby and wait to join either or both or neither of the clubs. We just to hang out with other Viper owners in Central Fl, don't really care what club they belong too. Try not to flame me too hard...
Merry X-mas everyone,
MI Viper

 

[Paul Hawker]

Mi Viper.

Thanks for this perspective.

I believe that most (but not all) would believe that one strong club would be much better that two smaller clubs, each at the others throat all the time.

I sincerely have enjoyed all the great times had over the past years, with club events, where everybody seemed to get along, and the objective was to have the most fun possible driving our beloved Vipers, and enjoying our regional club friendships.

 

[doctorbob]

MI viper .....welcome to viper ownership. I obviously do not represent the VCA or the "splinter group". The schism of this club has been unfortunate but it is what it is.....make your own choice or not on what club or clubs you want to join. Enjoy your car. There are good people on both sites. This site is currently experiencing a troll infestation ( testing out my new flame suit ) that should shortly subside.

 

[FrankBarba]

If VCA is so great why do i have to pay to get Herb's Advice, and his thoughts. I have never once been able to call Herb about a question i had in one of his write ups. Email could take days to answer. JONB is always a phone call away. If he does not answer he lets you know how to each him. Very valuable info from JonBe Sure i'm an enthusiast, but have been an owner since 1995 continuously always owing a Viper. It always comes down to money.

 

[Bobpantax]

Are you being serious Frank? JonB owns and runs Parts Rack. It is a business. Parts Rack pays him a salary and, I assume, if PR is an S corporation or an LLC treated as an S corporation, that Jon also receives a distribution of profits. Jon's salary is part of the cost/expense of operating the business and goes into determining the pricing structure of what is sold. So Jon is clearly paid for the advice he gives you. Herb does not own VPA. He is paid as a consultant. Of the two, I assure you that Jon has to be paid far, far more.

Jon has already posted that he agrees that Herb is a Viper Nation treasure. His input is a wonderful and valuable asset.

 

[TrackAire]

Are you being serious Frank? JonB owns and runs Parts Rack. It is a business. Parts Rack pays him a salary and, I assume, if PR is an S corporation or an LLC treated as an S corporation, that Jon also receives a distribution of profits. Jon's salary is part of the cost/expense of operating the business and goes into determining the pricing structure of what is sold. So Jon is clearly paid for the advice he gives you. Herb does not own VPA. He is paid as a consultant. Of the two, I assure you that Jon has to be paid far, far more.

Jon has already posted that he agrees that Herb is a Viper Nation treasure. His input is a wonderful and valuable asset.

Bob you bring up a good point about Herb being a treasure. I have not been a paid member since the beginning of 2012. At that time, I had no idea that Herb was on a VCA or VPA payroll or when he actually went on the payroll. I thought he was just answering questions on the forum because he wanted to. Since I'm not a paid member, I do not have access to the Grailkeeper section of the forum. What I did notice when I was a paid member is people would often times post questions to Herb and it would take weeks to get answered or never get answered. I always found it odd that so many questions went unanswered.

Since I have not been able to access the Grailkeeper section of the forum, has Herb's response time been faster to paying forum members now that he is definitely on the payroll? As a paid consultant, is the Grailkeeper section of the forum suppose to be taken care of by Herb?

What do the other forum members think of the Grailkeeper section and response time on questions receiving replies? When I originally joined the VCA, I felt that having a direct line of communication to Herb would be a major benefit and actually worth paying for. For 2010 and 2011, I didn't feel much value at all from the Grailkeeper section of the forum because of the lack of answers coming from Herb.

Any thoughts on this?

George

 

[ROCKET62]

I respect what Herb has done for the Viper. Not sure what the VCA was really getting for the amount they were paying him as I did not see much in the way of the advice he offered over what other members offered. Never really felt the grailkeeper section of the website or magazine offered that much. Again, respect what he did for the Viper. Had some questions about conflict of interest when his name showed up as possibly owning shares of VPA?

 

[Coloviper]

Ahhhh, Bob you are just so far off and reaching. Jon B will answer questions even if you did not buy a part from him. There is nothing in that formula for compensation when you have not bought a item from him, yet he takes the time to answer the question or point you in the direction if he can't. Yes there of course could be a sale in the future but Jon understands there is no guarantees. That said, I have nothing but respect for Herb as well so the point is mute. It just never ceases to amaze me the answers and approaches you spin up Bob. What do you really see when you look in the mirror? Totally classless!

 

[GRANGER73]

Are you being serious Frank? JonB owns and runs Parts Rack. It is a business. Parts Rack pays him a salary and, I assume, if PR is an S corporation or an LLC treated as an S corporation, that Jon also receives a distribution of profits. Jon's salary is part of the cost/expense of operating the business and goes into determining the pricing structure of what is sold. So Jon is clearly paid for the advice he gives you. Herb does not own VPA. He is paid as a consultant. Of the two, I assure you that Jon has to be paid far, far more.

Come on Bob, you're a capitalist. You've signed the front of the check. Jon has his own money at risk so he is entitled to a bigger piece of the pie. Further, if he's not an LLC he is personally at risk as well. Big difference.
As far as Jon determining the price of what he sells, I'm sure he wishes he could. The market sets the prices and he had to control his expenses to insure profitability. As competition gets tough, one of Jon's few options is to cut his salary. I'm certain he's had to make that move over the past several years to remain viable.

 

[Bobpantax]

So now its fair game to attack herb too? Please.

Bob you bring up a good point about Herb being a treasure. I have not been a paid member since the beginning of 2012. At that time, I had no idea that Herb was on a VCA or VPA payroll or when he actually went on the payroll. I thought he was just answering questions on the forum because he wanted to. Since I'm not a paid member, I do not have access to the Grailkeeper section of the forum. What I did notice when I was a paid member is people would often times post questions to Herb and it would take weeks to get answered or never get answered. I always found it odd that so many questions went unanswered.

Since I have not been able to access the Grailkeeper section of the forum, has Herb's response time been faster to paying forum members now that he is definitely on the payroll? As a paid consultant, is the Grailkeeper section of the forum suppose to be taken care of by Herb?

What do the other forum members think of the Grailkeeper section and response time on questions receiving replies? When I originally joined the VCA, I felt that having a direct line of communication to Herb would be a major benefit and actually worth paying for. For 2010 and 2011, I didn't feel much value at all from the Grailkeeper section of the forum because of the lack of answers coming from Herb.

Any thoughts on this?

George

 

[Bobpantax]

Jon is a competent business person. Over the last few years a number of entities have chosen to enter the parts space. Jon has never been shy about trying to protect what he perceives as his turf and there is nothing wrong with that.

One view of recent events is that one of the significant causes of the club rift, if not the major cause, was the aggressive responses by Jon and his supporters to the formation of VPA and the actions by the VCA Board with respect to some of same including the various bannings and moderation.

It should be interesting to see how Jon and his minions respond to the changes that are coming.

Come on Bob, you're a capitalist. You've signed the front of the check. Jon has his own money at risk so he is entitled to a bigger piece of the pie. Further, if he's not an LLC he is personally at risk as well. Big difference.
As far as Jon determining the price of what he sells, I'm sure he wishes he could. The market sets the prices and he had to control his expenses to insure profitability. As competition gets tough, one of Jon's few options is to cut his salary. I'm certain he's had to make that move over the past several years to remain viable.

 

[TrackAire]

So now its fair game to attack herb too? Please.

Jesus Bob, who is attacking Herb? I asked a very honest question. I did not realize that Herb was on the payroll until 12 months or so when it became public. Since I did not know he was getting paid then, I did not think it was a huge issue that he was not anywhere NEAR timely in answering questions on his own section of the forum (The Grail Trail). I figured he is retired and was doing this as a volunteer so I can't really fault him back when I was a paying member and reviewing The Grail Trail section and his lack of involvement.

Now that he is a paid consultant, what exactly are his duties? I am not bashing Herb, but damn it, he is getting paid and as a consultant he must have a set of duties and those must be outlined, right?

Can you Bob or somebody at the VCA answer these basic questions about Herb and his responsibilities:

-When did you go on the payroll?

-Is he suppose to answer or at least acknowledge questions in The Grail Trail section of the forum? I do not expect him to know the answer to all the crazy stuff that he must get asked, but at least acknowledge the question and a basic reply would be warranted if he is paid to do so.

-He writes for the Viper Magazine and has a column. I assume that is one of his duties and will continue to do so?

-What is he actually helping with in his consulting duties for the VPA/VCA? Does he answer VPA emails and phone calls? Does he recommend what parts should be stocked that he feels are needed for inventory? What does he actually do for the VPA?

If I read correctly, he gets paid $30k per year. Bob, I don't expect you to tell me but maybe some other paid VCA members can look at The Grail Trail section of the forum and let me know if questions are getting any response or answers in a timely matter. For $30k a year I expect something more in return than just the title of consultant. The reality is Herb may be doing a lot more than any members even know about but since nothing is listed, posted or explained, people base their opinions on is what the VCA allows us to see. Really, this is as unfair to Herb as it is to the VCA members.

Bob, I look forward to your response (why you are responding a not a VCA officer or board of director is beyond me) to my four questions above.

George

 

[GRANGER73]

... was the aggressive responses by Jon and his supporters to the formation of VPA and the actions by the VCA Board with respect to some of same including the various bannings and moderation..

Remember the stated mission when the VPA was formed. (Original post WAS capitalized for emphasis.)

SOLE PURPOSE OF THIS PROJECT WAS TO OBTAIN, AND PRESERVE VIPER PARTS FOR THE VCA MEMBERSHIP AND THEN MAKE THEM AVAILABLE AT THE MOST ATTRACTIVE PRICE POSSIBLE WITH ALL PROFITS GOING TO THE VCA!

When that mission changed Jon, Chuck Tator's and many others felt threatened. Enough blame to go around. Much could have been avoided with open and transparent discussion as the events changed.

 

[TowDawg]

Jon is a competent business person. Over the last few years a number of entities have chosen to enter the parts space. Jon has never been shy about trying to protect what he perceives as his turf and there is nothing wrong with that.

One view of recent events is that one of the significant causes of the club rift, if not the major cause, was the aggressive responses by Jon and his supporters to the formation of VPA and the actions by the VCA Board with respect to some of same including the various bannings and moderation.

It should be interesting to see how Jon and his minions respond to the changes that are coming.

You (and some VCA officers) keep wanting to try to paint Jon as the reason for the VCA falling apart instead of responding to the actual questions asked.
I can tell you that while a lot of people feel how Jon was treated was wrong, that IS NOT the cause of the VCA issues or the forming a new club. Not even close.
The absolute refusal to answer simple questions and be transparent about the issues and take the actions to fix them, is what put us where we are today.

 

[Bobpantax]

Please. Get real. Jon was incredibly pissed that VPA was formed. ( VPA was formed pursuant to a unanimous vote of the Board.) Jon was also pissed that VPA got the Viper legacy equipment and parts. Jon's recent post as much as admitted same. Around that time, hostilities racheted up through Jon and through proxies on this site and on other sites. Each camp went into a defensive mode. Censorship on this site went a bit nuts. Jon's posts here and elsewhere were, to say the least aggressive. Chris's actions were, at times arrogant and inappropriate. Jon was banned the first time by a unanimous vote of the Board. Jon's banning went on too long. Dan remedied that. If you wish to take the view that the formation of VPA started the whole thing, fine but that was what the entire VCA board decided to do based on their belief that it was in the best interests of more than 3000 members. It was, of course, not in the best interest of Jon and Parts Rack.

You (and some VCA officers) keep wanting to try to paint Jon as the reason for the VCA falling apart instead of responding to the actual questions asked.
I can tell you that while a lot of people feel how Jon was treated was wrong, that IS NOT the cause of the VCA issues or the forming a new club. Not even close.
The absolute refusal to answer simple questions and be transparent about the issues and take the actions to fix them, is what put us where we are today.

 

[Bobpantax]

Hi George. I can respond based only on what I know and believe. I do not know when he started to get paid as a consultant but it may have been from the getgo. Yes. Writing for the magazine was, and is, part of his consulting for VPA and is part of VPA's marketing effort. I heard ( I am not sure) that he helped catalog, inventory and maybe value ( not sure about the value part) the Viper Heritage equipement and parts. That certainly makes sense since he has an intimate knowedge of same. Perhaps its just my view but having Herb as a consultant and involved with VPA is a privilege and an honor and to me whatever he is being paid is a bargain.

Jesus Bob, who is attacking Herb? I asked a very honest question. I did not realize that Herb was on the payroll until 12 months or so when it became public. Since I did not know he was getting paid then, I did not think it was a huge issue that he was not anywhere NEAR timely in answering questions on his own section of the forum (The Grail Trail). I figured he is retired and was doing this as a volunteer so I can't really fault him back when I was a paying member and reviewing The Grail Trail section and his lack of involvement.

Now that he is a paid consultant, what exactly are his duties? I am not bashing Herb, but damn it, he is getting paid and as a consultant he must have a set of duties and those must be outlined, right?

Can you Bob or somebody at the VCA answer these basic questions about Herb and his responsibilities:

-When did you go on the payroll?

-Is he suppose to answer or at least acknowledge questions in The Grail Trail section of the forum? I do not expect him to know the answer to all the crazy stuff that he must get asked, but at least acknowledge the question and a basic reply would be warranted if he is paid to do so.

-He writes for the Viper Magazine and has a column. I assume that is one of his duties and will continue to do so?

-What is he actually helping with in his consulting duties for the VPA/VCA? Does he answer VPA emails and phone calls? Does he recommend what parts should be stocked that he feels are needed for inventory? What does he actually do for the VPA?

If I read correctly, he gets paid $30k per year. Bob, I don't expect you to tell me but maybe some other paid VCA members can look at The Grail Trail section of the forum and let me know if questions are getting any response or answers in a timely matter. For $30k a year I expect something more in return than just the title of consultant. The reality is Herb may be doing a lot more than any members even know about but since nothing is listed, posted or explained, people base their opinions on is what the VCA allows us to see. Really, this is as unfair to Herb as it is to the VCA members.

Bob, I look forward to your response (why you are responding a not a VCA officer or board of director is beyond me) to my four questions above.

George

 

[SHEVIPER]

Please. Get real. Jon was incredibly pissed that VPA was formed. ( VPA was formed pursuant to a unanimous vote of the Board.) Jon was also pissed that VPA got the Viper legacy equipment and parts. Jon's recent post as much as admitted same. Around that time, hostilities racheted up through Jon and through proxies on this site and on other sites. Each camp went into a defensive mode. Censorship on this site went a bit nuts. Jon's posts here and elsewhere were, to say the least aggressive. Chris's actions were, at times arrogant and inappropriate. Jon was banned the first time by a unanimous vote of the Board. Jon's banning went on too long. Dan remedied that. If you wish to take the view that the formation of VPA started the whole thing, fine but that was what the entire VCA board decided to do based on their belief that it was in the best interests of more than 3000 members. It was, of course, not in the best interest of Jon and Parts Rack.

But the issues with Jon, Partsrack, and VPA are NOT what started all of the issues with VCA. It was the lack of transparency, and refusal to answer simple questions put forth by the members. Most people agreed with the original suspension of Jon. It was when it was extended that people started to question motives.

 

[Bobpantax]

Sorry but they were what started the problems. The alleged lack of transparency was later and the excessive bannings were later. Also, the extension of the banning was still an issue related to the problems that arose after the JonB/ VPA/VCA issues arose.

Ask yourself a simple question. If VPA had never been formed, would any of what happened, happened? I doubt it.

An aggravating factor was the bankruptcy of Chrysler and the cut off in all financial support to the VCA as a result of it.

The Board felt that VPA was needed for the survival of the VCA. JonB felt that the formation of VPA was a direct threat to his business. Both views, at the time, were credible views. The VCA view represented the interests of more than 3000 members. Jon's view represented the interest of Parts Rack and Jon.

Should the parties have perhaps sat down early on and discussed the situation? Yes. But unfortunately, to my knowledge they did not and the unpleasantness started and eventually spun out of control.

But the issues with Jon, Partsrack, and VPA are NOT what started all of the issues with VCA. It was the lack of transparency, and refusal to answer simple questions put forth by the members. Most people agreed with the original suspension of Jon. It was when it was extended that people started to question motives.

 

[luc]

Sorry but they were what started the problems. The alleged lack of transparency was later and the excessive bannings were later. Also, the extension of the banning was still an issue related to the problems that arose after the JonB/ VPA/VCA issues arose.

Ask yourself a simple question. If VPA had never been formed, would any of what happened, happened? I doubt it.

An aggravating factor was the bankruptcy of Chrysler and the cut off in all financial support to the VCA as a result of it.

The Board felt that VPA was needed for the survival of the VCA. JonB felt that the formation of VPA was a direct threat to his business. Both views, at the time, were credible views. The VCA view represented the interests of more than 3000 members. Jon's view represented the interest of Parts Rack and Jon.

Should the parties have perhaps sat down early on and discussed the situation? Yes. But unfortunately, to my knowledge they did not and the unpleasantness started and eventually spun out of control.

Bob:

You are dead wrong regarding the timing of the lack of transparency and excessive banning.
You have been on this forum as long than me (October 2000) so you must know that the issues of censorship, banning, Magic Wand, etc, started way back in 2001. OVER 12 YEARS AGO.
This club and now the VOA, has always been run by a few insiders for THEIR benefits.
Some of those "insiders" that for years were very happy to enjoy all the BENEFITS of being in control of the VCA and didn't give a flying f8ck about the obvious miss-management, censorship,etc, only left the VCA when some of their OWN privileges were in jeopardy.
Those same peoples started the VOA and want us to BELIEVE that they had nothing to do with or could do nothing about the major issues than the VCA has had for the past 12 YEARS.
It a smoke screen, 100% BS and so far from the truth that it would be laughable if not so many peoples were buying it.