N/A Motor Build - 700 rwhp???

[dipapa]

Be good to have any Big "All Motor Die Hards" chime in here.


Ive decided to take my 2005 Copperhead to new performance heights.

Of the dozen so sports cars ive owned over the years this is gonna be a first for me....The All motor build for high HP and reliability!

My Paxton has been set aside and just like to see what we can do with only a Motor.

Prior to installing the Paxton (which did 733rwhp - dyno dynamics dyno), I did 530 (on same dyno) with simple bolt on headers, no cats, stock mufflers, intake, TB, and VEC3 custom tune.



At this time the motor is out and the heads are off so ive past the point of no return!!!!


Todd Abrams, owner A&C Performance in Murrietta, CA is in charge of the build, installation and tune.


Greg Good, In Houston, is on the heads, cam and intake


We are in the early stages and I sure like this to be a 700rwhp all motor bullet proof project... we will see if costs, 91 octane and drivebility limitations are gonna slow me down on this one. It likely be costs more so than the crappy gas!

Thus far i have heard staying at 10:5 compression is very wise to be safe.

I'm not too interested in a crazy idle, so im not to sure if the 700 is gonna happen.

So far we have discussed 521 stroker or the bigger 542.

Id sure like to have a 6500 redline.

Were definetely gonna improve the oiling system.



It be great to hear any opinions and experiences of those who have been through an all motor project

I will also be glad to update everyone on this projects and inform where its goes.

So... much more to come!!!

 

[ViperTony]

You should reach out to 1BADGTS on this, lots of information there.

 

[dipapa]

You should reach out to 1BADGTS on this, lots of information there.

Will do. Hopefully he will see this thread.

 

[1BADGTS]

To put the entire thing in perspective the fastest pump gas NA CAR ON RECORD is the LPE GEN 2 STROKER and as evidenced by its 135 mph trap speed it  was probably aroung 635 to the tire.Pro drag racer Don Nace ran around 133-134 on 490 cubes (non stroker ). Both of the cars listed times were ran in very optimized conditions (pro driver great track ect )In all the years of Viper racing the records(trap speeds ) just dont support anything anywhere near that power level .

 

[1BADGTS]

You have a pm

 

[dipapa]

To put the entire thing in perspective the fastest pump gas NA CAR ON RECORD is the LPE GEN 2 STROKER and as evidenced by its 135 mph trap speed it  was probably aroung 635 to the tire.Pro drag racer Don Nace ran around 133-134 on 490 cubes (non stroker ). Both of the cars listed times were ran in very optimized conditions (pro driver great track ect )In all the years of Viper racing the records(trap speeds ) just dont support anything anywhere near that power level .

Ive seen dyno's of 620rwhp with the stryker or GG heads and cam on a stock gen3 short block.

 

[bushido]

To put the entire thing in perspective the fastest pump gas NA CAR ON RECORD is the LPE GEN 2 STROKER and as evidenced by its 135 mph trap speed it  was probably aroung 635 to the tire.Pro drag racer Don Nace ran around 133-134 on 490 cubes (non stroker ). Both of the cars listed times were ran in very optimized conditions (pro driver great track ect )In all the years of Viper racing the records(trap speeds ) just dont support anything anywhere near that power level .

Joe I'm pretty sure Norman's LPE car went 145mph in the quarter mile..

 

[1BADGTS]

Joe I'm pretty sure Norman's LPE car went 145mph in the quarter mile..

It did but that car was over 13 to 1 compression (RACE GAS )open header ,lighten ect.No way in the condition it race that time could it be street driven

 

[1BADGTS]

Ive seen dyno's of 620rwhp with the stryker or GG heads and cam on a stock gen3 short block.

All day long but that does not mean the car will trap over 135. .My old Gen 2 for example dynoed at 550-560 to the tire and easily beat cars with dyno sheets SAYING THEY MADE 50-60 MORE AT THE TIRE.Do yourself a favor whatever tuner you use make them GUARANTEE a TRAP SPEED on pump gas NOT A DYNO NUMBER.DYNO NUMBERS CAN BE MANIPULATED ECT and do not neccessarily mean a car will be that fast at the track.

 

[1BADGTS]

Do the math 700 to the tire running pilots that car should trap near 140 if its legitimate never going to happen not on pump gas ,closed exhaust ect

 

[dipapa]

All day long but that does not mean the car will trap over 135. .My old Gen 2 for example dynoed at 550-560 to the tire and easily beat cars with dyno sheets SAYING THEY MADE 50-60 MORE AT THE TIRE.Do yourself a favor whatever tuner you use make them GUARANTEE a TRAP SPEED on pump gas NOT A DYNO NUMBER.DYNO NUMBERS CAN BE MANIPULATED ECT and do not neccessarily mean a car will be that fast at the track.

I completely agree with you. Dynos vary allot so what is baseline. Probably where you started stock. I once heard of a dyno tuner that put his dyno temp sensor in the ceiling corner of the shop!!!

I am fairly certain Todd's dyno is well calibrated since i ran 442 rwhp completely stock and have slowly over 2 years moved up the modd list and seen the numbers increase and have seen allot of cars on his dyno.

Suprised as it may be i completely agree with you because i have seen 650rwhp paxton cars in drags and street races not do as good as I thought they would.

 

[1BADGTS]

Over the years i have seen many a tuner get extremely creative with DYNO numbers and quite simply they dont always equate to performance numbers on the track.When i was racing my Gen 2 i wanted a pump gas car with good street manners (3000 miles per year on the street )yet could run low 11s at 132 on Pilots (or mid 10s at 134 on slicks )that was reliable .

 

[1BADGTS]

Also with some of these finite track numbers can be manipulated as well who ran open header,who ran without a front sway bar,who ran minus an interior ect.

 

[1BADGTS]

In other words iam looking for a pump gas Viper capable of trapping in excess of 135 mph(fully intact ) in a streetable package (plenty of vacume ect )

 

[dipapa]

Ok.... back to the motor build now.

what others have went through on their N/A motor builds or what other have plans of on a N/A motor build.

Whats pistons, rods, crank mods, bearings and size of motor they created.

Compression and hp?
Cubic inches and machining and hp?
cam and idle and hp?
heads and hp?

etc, etc, etc.

 

[1BADGTS]

Ok.... back to the motor build now.what others have went through on their N/A motor builds or what other have plans of on a N/A motor build.Whats pistons, rods, crank mods, bearings and size of motor they created.Compression and hp?Cubic inches and machining and hp?cam and idle and hp?heads and hp?etc, etc, etc.

Call me and i will give you what i paid for my parts (engine build sheet ect )I would leave the stock crank in the block because an aftermarket 4340 one will set you back over 6000 grand and offers very little perf gain for the money.

 

[PhoenixGTS]

I know this board is not a big fan of his (and I am neutral), but I've seen engine dyno charts for Fat Albert engines at 488 cubes make 800 hp so although not the mainstream, you might reach out to him as with a 15% drivetrain loss that would be 680 rwhp. Just sayin'

 

[1BADGTS]

I know this board is not a big fan of his (and I am neutral), but I've seen engine dyno charts for Fat Albert engines at 488 cubes make 800 hp so although not the mainstream, you might reach out to him as with a 15% drivetrain loss that would be 680 rwhp. Just sayin'

For a roadrace application definately(all that power up top ) but for a street strip car i have never seen any data on the one way or the other .I do know that your talking over 50 grand though.

 

[dipapa]

I know this board is not a big fan of his (and I am neutral), but I've seen engine dyno charts for Fat Albert engines at 488 cubes make 800 hp so although not the mainstream, you might reach out to him as with a 15% drivetrain loss that would be 680 rwhp. Just sayin'

that's quite an accomplishment. I have run some numbers with Todd and Greg and have concluded with a gen 3 10:5 comp, GG heads and Cam, and a 542 motor setup I fairly certain the 680rwhp can happen. I'm gonna use this car as a street car, not that it matters, just want allot of fun and reliability.

 

[bushido]

that's quite an accomplishment. I have run some numbers with Todd and Greg and have concluded with a gen 3 10:5 comp, GG heads and Cam, and a 542 motor setup I fairly certain the 680rwhp can happen. I'm gonna use this car as a street car, not that it matters, just want allot of fun and reliability.

Dan Cragin at DC Performance also reccomended me to go 10:5 compression on my head /cam(stock shortblock) 97GTS. It screams,and they did a fantastic job on my car..

 

[dipapa]

Dan Cragin at DC Performance also reccomended me to go 10:5 compression on my head /cam(stock shortblock) 97GTS. It screams,and they did a fantastic job on my car..

Can you say a bit more about your build. Specifically the pistons, rods and did you go stroker? How did it dyno?

 

[bushido]

Can you say a bit more about your build. Specifically the pistons, rods and did you go stroker? How did it dyno?

I said stock shortblock.

Stock shortblock with Jeff Morey stage 3 ported heads milled, Crower 1.7RRs,LSM cam, stock intake manifold match ported,Exotic Engine valve cover breather system & puke tank. Last, American Racing 5-into-1, 1 5/8 to 1 3/4 inch stepped headers. No cats through Borla exhaust system..

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[J&R3xV10]

Just to throw it out there I have a friend and co-founder of a local car club that has a 700+++ HP N/A 2008 corvette Z06. Dyno numbers have differed a bit but he goes by 711hp as a median. Even with all that power he still swears that my stock 08 Viper is faster. I give a lot of credit to the fact that he is a wimpy driver

 

[dipapa]

I said stock shortblock.

Stock shortblock with Jeff Morey stage 3 ported heads milled, Crower 1.7RRs,LSM cam, stock intake manifold match ported,Exotic Engine valve cover breather system & puke tank. Last, American Racing 5-into-1, 1 5/8 to 1 3/4 inch stepped headers. No cats through Borla exhaust system..

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Thanks for the info. Thats a very nice setup. Great Numbers!!! I have identical header/exhaust setup.

Do you know what those heads flow?

How do you like the Cam idle? Must sound great.

 

[bushido]

Thanks for the info. Thats a very nice setup. Great Numbers!!! I have identical header/exhaust setup.

Do you know what those heads flow?

How do you like the Cam idle? Must sound great.

Thanks..

The car idles, and drives better than when it was stock. No bucking or surging, Chris did a awesome job tuning my car on the dyno. With that said, I don't know what the heads flow. Call Dan, I'm sure he will tell you the exact details..

 

[Burt G]

VERY IMPRESSIVE RESULTS, Could you PM me some idea of what this set-up may run and roughly how long it took to complete.

Thanks!
Burt

Stock shortblock with Jeff Morey stage 3 ported heads milled, Crower 1.7RRs,LSM cam, stock intake manifold match ported,Exotic Engine valve cover breather system & puke tank. Last, American Racing 5-into-1, 1 5/8 to 1 3/4 inch stepped headers. No cats through Borla exhaust system..

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[Red Snake]

Get the Striker heads and let GG work them over. I don't know if you'll hit 700 but it would be fun finding out.

 

[ViperTony]

Dipapa, if you haven't done so already I'd call folks such as Chuck Tator, Dan Cragin, Sean Roe, Dan Lesser, DLM, Greg Good and talk to them about your NA goal. I've found each to be extremely knowledgeable and helpful. FYI.

 

[1fast400]

I've never understood the desire to build NA, when you'll spend as much money if not more vs boosting it. These motors are just way too boost friendly.

 

[SquadX]

Since your already in talks with Greg Good Im sure he's mentioned porting a pair of strikers. Last time I spoke with him, he'd ported a pair of strikers that flowed in the 390s. thats impressive.