Not happy today, just got beat, twice !

[AAKVIPER]

I hope so, would love to the Viper kill em all but SRT has to move on tech wise, I don't think adding more and more power with old tech is the solution...

The American cars are just about the only ones left with no DCT options... McLaren, Ferrari, Porsche, Nissan, Audi, Lamborghini, Bugatti, BMW, Mercedes are all moving on...

You raise a very good point. The future of sport's cars will not only be sequential manual transmission for the US at least, but all wheel drive. GM is working on an electric front wheel drive system for the Vette similar as on one of the Ferraris.

The Americans do have all the high tech features, one example is true magnetic shocks as on the Cadillac and Zr-1 etc. I still believe duel clutch is not the answer here. But a sequential manual is more suited for the abuse for the higher HP cars. Do not forget that the McLaren and 458 Ferrari are rear drive like the US cars.

My belief is that HP on a rear wheel car has meet it's effective point. All wheel drive is essential to get the power down. But not in the traditional sense of the current heavy and complicated all wheel drive systems. The future will be in my opinion electronic driven front or even rear wheels. That way the torque load can really be controlled via data processor for perfect traction requirements.

The query here is, with less driver input, and a good driver is made instantly, where is all the fun?

For example I have spent all my life trying to perfect the" heel toe "dance and now the car manufactures have a rev matching feature with perfect blips when downshifting a clutch car. The Chevy ZL 1 now has a "no lift" feature, meaning that you can shift a manual with the accelerator floored and one does not have to lift it. So a perfect power shift via computer. It will keep and control the best revs short of the rev limiter for shifting.
Launch control can make any average guy near perfect of the line every time. And stability control will make you look like a 24 Daytona race car driver around the turns.

Thank good for the defeat button on all the nanny checks that come with cars. At least one can practice car control, rotating the car, and threshold and trail breaking with no on board supervision.

 

[FikseGTS]

mid-engine helps a lot with RWD, my Ford GT and McLaren 12C do very well with a lot of weight sitting on the back tires, I ran 0-60 in 2.8 seconds on the street in the McLaren which is right there with the GT-R and 911 turbo. As power goes higher AWD is key though, especially for front engine cars...

I agree the computers are taking the skill required away, at least for drag racing, for road course work the stability control is great but you'll still need to know how to drive, an inexperienced driver will still overheat the brakes, not follow the proper lines and put the car into the wall. There will always be the old school guys who want everything manual, but in reality, most people buying these cars have no idea what they are doing so the technology is useful....

electric is the future, no shifting and the instant torque anywhere in my Tesla Model S has is amazing....

You raise a very good point. The future of sport's cars will not only be sequential manual transmission for the US at least, but all wheel drive. GM is working on an electric front wheel drive system for the Vette similar as on one of the Ferraris.

The Americans do have all the high tech features, one example is true magnetic shocks as on the Cadillac and Zr-1 etc. I still believe duel clutch is not the answer here. But a sequential manual is more suited for the abuse for the higher HP cars. Do not forget that the McLaren and 458 Ferrari are rear drive like the US cars.

My belief is that HP on a rear wheel car has meet it's effective point. All wheel drive is essential to get the power down. But not in the traditional sense of the current heavy and complicated all wheel drive systems. The future will be in my opinion electronic driven front or even rear wheels. That way the torque load can really be controlled via data processor for perfect traction requirements.

The query here is, with less driver input, and a good driver is made instantly, where is all the fun?

For example I have spent all my life trying to perfect the" heel toe "dance and now the car manufactures have a rev matching feature with perfect blips when downshifting a clutch car. The Chevy ZL 1 now has a "no lift" feature, meaning that you can shift a manual with the accelerator floored and one does not have to lift it. So a perfect power shift via computer. It will keep and control the best revs short of the rev limiter for shifting.
Launch control can make any average guy near perfect of the line every time. And stability control will make you look like a 24 Daytona race car driver around the turns.

Thank good for the defeat button on all the nanny checks that come with cars. At least one can practice car control, rotating the car, and threshold and trail breaking with no on board supervision.

 

[AAKVIPER]

mid-engine helps a lot with RWD, my Ford GT and McLaren 12C do very well with a lot of weight sitting on the back tires, I ran 0-60 in 2.8 seconds on the street in the McLaren which is right there with the GT-R and 911 turbo. As power goes higher AWD is key though, especially for front engine cars...

I agree the computers are taking the skill required away, at least for drag racing, for road course work the stability control is great but you'll still need to know how to drive, an inexperienced driver will still overheat the brakes, not follow the proper lines and put the car into the wall. There will always be the old school guys who want everything manual, but in reality, most people buying these cars have no idea what they are doing so the technology is useful....

electric is the future, no shifting and the instant torque anywhere in my Tesla Model S has is amazing....

I agree electric is the future... Tesla Model S even the (Volt for the common people) are gaining new customers every day . An electric car is very fast off the line.
You will like these tubes below..give the Telsa three more years of development
one will see 2 sec 0-60 and 10 sec 1/4 mile times..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr7a9ag5IQI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jIcWBe2_4w

 

[Bo knows]

Feeling a little better about this race after reading all your comments. And yes I did enjoy seeing the McLaren although I would have preferred not seeing as much of the back of it as I did. I've been beating up on some of the Z06's and other exotics in our area and was getting a little cocky and did not expect to get beat. I guess a little reality check can be good at times. Thanks guys for all the advice about what to do to go faster, I appreciate it! But nobody advised me what to do about my second loss last Sunday. My N.Y. Giants are now 0 - 2 . What can be done about that ??

 

[Caesar!]

That Mclaren beat you and I Bet it has traction control..Paddle shifter etc etc. Personally I can't stand the new tech stuff. Yes it helps with speed..being quicker..but No thank you....lol .......He beat you as he may have more power.. How much is that thing?? You can mod your Viper to take down anything if you wanted. Your car is like 15yrs older and its still bad A$$..

 

[345s-bspinnin]

Those 12C are certainly very quick cars. No stock Viper can touch it. At last year's Houston Half mile event, a MP4-12C ran 157.5mph compared to my 159.5mph. At the time, I was at about 615whp (700+ crank) with my heads/cam Gen III. I am no slouch with the gear lever, but this still shows that my extra +100hp advantage was only good for 2mph at the half mile mark. In the short future, its going to take a lot more brute force to overcome the inefficiencies of our analog car.

 

[FastZilla]

Those 12C are certainly very quick cars. No stock Viper can touch it. At last year's Houston Half mile event, a MP4-12C ran 157.5mph compared to my 159.5mph. At the time, I was at about 615whp (700+ crank) with my heads/cam Gen III. I am no slouch with the gear lever, but this still shows that my extra +100hp advantage was only good for 2mph at the half mile mark. In the short future, its going to take a lot more brute force to overcome the inefficiencies of our analog car.

That 12c was probably a pre-update car (25 hp less than current 12c's). The analog cars are fun! Viva la Gen1. (They remind you how hard it is to drive fast)

 

[AAKVIPER]

Those 12C are certainly very quick cars. No stock Viper can touch it. At last year's Houston Half mile event, a MP4-12C ran 157.5mph compared to my 159.5mph. At the time, I was at about 615whp (700+ crank) with my heads/cam Gen III. I am no slouch with the gear lever, but this still shows that my extra +100hp advantage was only good for 2mph at the half mile mark. In the short future, its going to take a lot more brute force to overcome the inefficiencies of our analog car.

Just check this out..."No stock Viper can touch it" not so true, the TA Viper can match the MP4-12C . The two cars are very close...

2014 Viper
0-60 time:3.3 sec. (Est.)Top Speed:206 mph

MP4-12C
0-60 acceleration. 3.2 and top speed 210 mph

The tests below

http://www.edmunds.com/mclaren/mp4-12c/2012/road-test.html

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/srt/2014-srt-viper-ta-ar150403.html


And look below at the lap times at Top 20 Cars Around Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca..2013 SRT Viper TA 1:33.62
McLaren MP4-12C 1:34.50
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1303_2014_srt_viper_ta/viewall.html

 

[FikseGTS]

I've driven both and have lots of actual timesilps for both driven on the same day, not close at all... by the 1/8 mile, the 12C is going 7+ MPH faster.... anyone who wants to give the 12c a run let me know...

Just check this out..."No stock Viper can touch it" not so true, the TA Viper can match the MP4-12C . The two cars are very close...

2014 Viper
0-60 time:3.3 sec. (Est.)Top Speed:206 mph

MP4-12C
0-60 acceleration. 3.2 and top speed 210 mph

The tests below

http://www.edmunds.com/mclaren/mp4-12c/2012/road-test.html

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/srt/2014-srt-viper-ta-ar150403.html


And look below at the lap times at Top 20 Cars Around Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca..2013 SRT Viper TA 1:33.62
McLaren MP4-12C 1:34.50
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1303_2014_srt_viper_ta/viewall.html

 

[Nine Ball]

We need more guys that race like FikseGTS (and myself) and less magazine racers. If you spend more time at the drag strip like some of us, you'll understand that 5 mph difference in trap speed is a large indicator of potential ass-whipping on the highway. "Competitive" would be cars within 1-2 mph trap speeds of each other. 5 mph is a good 5-6 cars lead from a highway speed start. Not close at all.

 

[Viper Grenade]

I'm all for a 426 Hemi, twin turbos and an 8sp auto on a Viper. Keep the V10, but add a TT-V8 as the "SR" (Street Racer) option. 800hp would be child's play.

 

[Viper Grenade]

I'm all for a 426 Hemi, twin turbos and an 8sp auto on a Viper. Keep the V10, but add a TT-V8 as the "SR" (Street Racer) option. 800hp would be child's play.

The Aftermarket would jump all over this as it would be nothing but Mopar bolt-ons and some E85 to being it upto 1000hp-1100hp.

 

[Viper Grenade]

We need more guys that race like FikseGTS (and myself) and less magazine racers. If you spend more time at the drag strip like some of us, you'll understand that 5 mph difference in trap speed is a large indicator of potential ass-whipping on the highway. "Competitive" would be cars within 1-2 mph trap speeds of each other. 5 mph is a good 5-6 cars lead from a highway speed start. Not close at all.

9 ball is right. 5-6mph trap speed @ the drags is HUGE on the street ET can both be the same but that mph is a good indicator of what it will do in a hwy roll-on. I have personally kick the crap out of a Paxton SC Viper my 10.90@130 vs his 11.4@139. I may have beat him by ET but his mph would simply crush me on the street. It wouldn't even be much of a race really. He would walk me from the hit and put at least 7-8 cars on in a 50-150 run.

 

[AAKVIPER]

I've driven both and have lots of actual timesilps for both driven on the same day, not close at all... by the 1/8 mile, the 12C is going 7+ MPH faster.... anyone who wants to give the 12c a run let me know...

If you study the different magazines I posted you would notice a pattern here. These mags published their findings for all to see on the Internet and on paper. The performance comparison time again shows how close the Viper and MP4-12C really is and was. These guys tested time again and published the results.. For a Viper club member, seems that you are short selling the Gen V Viper. No one mentioned the road course Viper and Vette ********** vers the MP4 2c

 

[AAKVIPER]

9 ball is right. 5-6mph trap speed @ the drags is HUGE on the street ET can both be the same but that mph is a good indicator of what it will do in a hwy roll-on. I have personally kick the crap out of a Paxton SC Viper my 10.90@130 vs his 11.4@139. I may have beat him by ET but his mph would simply crush me on the street. It wouldn't even be much of a race really. He would walk me from the hit and put at least 7-8 cars on in a 50-150 run.

Read below what the trap speed of a stock Mclearn 11.1 sec @ 129.4 mph Stock car no mods..The gen 5 Viper and ZR1 are 128.8 mph and 128.7 mph . Do not short sell the Viper..

Mclearn
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/exotic/1203_2012_mclaren_mp4_12c_first_test/viewall.html


Gen 5 Viper and ZR1
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1212_2013_chevrolet_corvette_zr1_srt_viper_gts/

 

[Nine Ball]

Motor Trend doesn't use a drag strip to get those 1/4-mile times. They just run them down an open stretch of pavement, without any prep. Very rarely are their quoted times accurate as to what you'd see at an actual drag strip.

Please quit racing magazine articles. The 12C is a mid-10s car that traps mid-130s, at most tracks. The Viper is a high-10 capable car that traps high 120s. Fast, but not equal to the 12C. The closest competitor for the Viper is the ZR1, period.

 

[Ray W]

The GEN V Is getting whipped by the MP4. Brooks is the same driver of both cars. On the same day and the same track. The Viper is 5 car lengths behind (100') and is being left behind by at least 5mph. This would mean that I can forgive the beat down in the quarter mile due to lighter weight, quicker trans shifting and better traction. I can't stand that the Viper isn't running down the MP4 at the end of the quarter mile and beyond. Don't think you can make it up because a locked PCM makes sure you won't.

 

[Viper Grenade]

Fact is, MP4 is faster than a viper in the real world. In mag-land its close. But then again most mag-rags are only good for whio

 

[Viper Grenade]

Fact is, MP4 is faster than a viper in the real world. In mag-land its close. But then again most mag-rags are only good for whio

...***...it only posted half of my post. Anyway, back to the fun.

Most rags are only good for wiping my asp off, even at that, they are not very good. You can mag-race all day long. What really matters is that when your out in the streets brawling with other car (in this case mp4 vs viper) the viper will get its ass handed it it unless its been worked over real good with a blower, TT's or HC with a big cam in it.

 

[plumcrazy]

If you study the different magazines I posted you would notice a pattern here. These mags published their findings for all to see on the Internet and on paper. The performance comparison time again shows how close the Viper and MP4-12C really is and was. These guys tested time again and published the results.. For a Viper club member, seems that you are short selling the Gen V Viper. No one mentioned the road course Viper and Vette ********** vers the MP4 2c

LOL, you are arguing with a guy who races a lot, raced both on the same day on the same track and you quote magazine articles ?

 

[AAKVIPER]

LOL, you are arguing with a guy who races a lot, raced both on the same day on the same track and you quote magazine articles ?

I hear a lot of drag racing stores, but no real empirical data to back that claim. The race mags take a bone stock car and ring it out. I have drag raced for years living 25 minutes from Englishtown race way park in NJ, and witnessed all the cheating on so called bone stock cars. I have done it my self.

That is why I give credence to the mags. They insure the use of stock out of the box cars. I not just citing the mags but showing real world data.

 

[AAKVIPER]

...***...it only posted half of my post. Anyway, back to the fun.

Most rags are only good for wiping my asp off, even at that, they are not very good. You can mag-race all day long. What really matters is that when your out in the streets brawling with other car (in this case mp4 vs viper) the viper will get its ass handed it it unless its been worked over real good with a blower, TT's or HC with a big cam in it.

If you think the Viper Gen 5 will get beat..with no evidence and just what you think and heard. God bless you. You should maybe get into a Gen 5 Viper and try one out. Funny how no one talks about road course dominance of the Viper over the 12C.

 

[AAKVIPER]

Motor Trend doesn't use a drag strip to get those 1/4-mile times. They just run them down an open stretch of pavement, without any prep. Very rarely are their quoted times accurate as to what you'd see at an actual drag strip.

Please quit racing magazine articles. The 12C is a mid-10s car that traps mid-130s, at most tracks. The Viper is a high-10 capable car that traps high 120s. Fast, but not equal to the 12C. The closest competitor for the Viper is the ZR1, period.

The 12C is a mid-10s car that traps mid-130s..not what I have seen...it is a low 11 sec and 129..maybe 130 MPH..data proves it.. I have not seen one touch over 130 MPH without chancery afoot.. To many independent tests put the data at 129.00 trap MPH

 

[AAKVIPER]

...***...it only posted half of my post. Anyway, back to the fun.

Most rags are only good for wiping my asp off, even at that, they are not very good. You can mag-race all day long. What really matters is that when your out in the streets brawling with other car (in this case mp4 vs viper) the viper will get its ass handed it it unless its been worked over real good with a blower, TT's or HC with a big cam in it.

And this statement "viper will get its ass handed it" by what data? Just by the fact you think it might beat the Viper, in spite of real world data? And that you have seen a 12 c race on you tube modified to run mid 10's at 135..Not logical, but you can believe you want.. One thought..can a 12 C beat the Gen 5 on the track...let me reiterate this, on a road course?

 

[AAKVIPER]

Motor Trend doesn't use a drag strip to get those 1/4-mile times. They just run them down an open stretch of pavement, without any prep. Very rarely are their quoted times accurate as to what you'd see at an actual drag strip.

Please quit racing magazine articles. The 12C is a mid-10s car that traps mid-130s, at most tracks. The Viper is a high-10 capable car that traps high 120s. Fast, but not equal to the 12C. The closest competitor for the Viper is the ZR1, period.

"The closest competitor for the Viper is the ZR1, period" corect the 12 C is slower on the road course.. The Vette and Viper are faster.

 

[Viper Grenade]

In this day and age, road racing is not what everyone does. We go street race and do things like the mile. 50-200 is my preferred playground. Road racing is a blast but when I'm dropping $5k to play in a weekend, it loses it fun factor.

Run the mile and I drop maybe $1k. That's why nobody really gives a crap about road racing.

 

[FikseGTS]

huh?? It's my 12C, sitting in my garage! It's not modified.... I have tons of slips, it's never once run in the 11's.... I personally raced a Gen V Viper side by side from a roll and pulled on it with no problem... I've beat a 911 turbo s, Ferrari 458, and ZR1 with no problem, the 12C is 3,100 pounds, 625 HP (turbo) with a DCT, VERY hard to beat...

don't forget McLaren did an update to all of the cars which increased power from 592 to 625HP and revised the transmission programming, so maybe the magaiznes were testing a very early car....

And this statement "viper will get its ass handed it" by what data? Just by the fact you think it might beat the Viper, in spite of real world data? And that you have seen a 12 c race on you tube modified to run mid 10's at 135..Not logical, but you can believe you want.. One thought..can a 12 C beat the Gen 5 on the track...let me reiterate this, on a road course?

 

[Blainne]

Are we really argueing about comparing a 100k car to a 200k+ car in the 1/4 mile.. LOL....

Lets go and compare the 13 Focus S/T to the 13 Viper GTS.. about the same F'in thing as comparing a 13 Viper GTS to a 12C. Stick to straight line with 12C or you'll get embarrased by the ZR1 and GTS.

 

[FikseGTS]

you're delusional and have brand googles on if you think the 12C isn't a subtsantial road course car.... with equivalent tires and driver, the 12C will have no problem with the Viper and ZR1....

Are we really argueing about comparing a 100k car to a 200k+ car in the 1/4 mile.. LOL....

Lets go and compare the 13 Focus S/T to the 13 Viper GTS.. about the same F'in thing as comparing a 13 Viper GTS to a 12C. Stick to straight line with 12C or you'll get embarrased by the ZR1 and GTS.

 

[Blainne]

you're delusional and have brand googles on if you think the 12C isn't a subtsantial road course car.... with equivalent tires and driver, the 12C will have no problem with the Viper and ZR1....

Again it costs more than 2 Vipers... not an accomplishment. Its a great car, but in a DIFFERENT LEAGUE.