Odd Cold Start This Morning

[swexlin]

First "nice" day in 3 weeks. Temperature about 40. The car sits in an enclosed, but non-heated garage, in sleep mode, with no battery tender. 2003, with Mopar controller, 25,000 miles.

She has sat for 3 weeks today. Got in, started her (no long cranking, she always lights within a second or two). She idled very rough for a couple of seconds, then died. Huh? OK, so, I started her again, this time, after she caught (again, right away) I give her just a touch on the throttle. She was fine, I let her idle as normal about 5 minutes, then off I went.

About a 30 mile drive, high speed, low speed, stop and idling at lights, no issues. Came back, parked her, and shut her off. Did a couple of restarts, no issues.

So, what gives? Fuel injected cars shouldn't stall after a second or two, so, I'm thinking there was condensation in the fuel line, after sitting for 3 weeks, and it being so cold. First time in the 10 months I've owned her that it did this.

Other thoughts?

 

[01sapphirebob]

Did the car have a full tank of fuel before storing? Water in the line could be the cause?

 

[swexlin]

About 1/2 tank. I'm thinking condensation as well. No check engine light or anything like that. When she started, sounded like she wasn't getting enough fuel. She does sit for 2-3 weeks at a time. This was only the third or fourth drive since the beginining of December.

 

[01sapphirebob]

I always try to make sure that before storing I have a full tank of fuel. Part of my storing routine. Hopefully that was the cause. Another pointer, when sitting for a long time is, it might be a good idea to let the car come up to operating temp before you take her out for a quick spin. 20 min. maybe.

 

[swexlin]

Bob, I did let her come up to temp. The car isn't stored - I drive it whenever I can, it's just been that the weather these last few weeks prevents it. I agree, I probably should have filled the tank even before I parked it today.

That's the only thing I can think of, because a fuel-injected car shouldn't do that. Reminded me of my Cummins last spring when the lift pump went - she just died because not getting fuel.

All gauges were normal, oil, battery, etc. And she idled as normal every stoplight etc - purred like a kitten (or lion!) like she always does. Will be interesting to see what happens next cold start.

 

[Martin]

I've had this happen to me a few times for no apparent reason, and had the exact same thing happen when I've disconnected the battery for long period of time. About the only thing I can attribute it to is the controller sometimes 'burps' and loses some start-up calibration data. After holding the throttle down for a couple seconds, all is well again - exactly what happened to yours.

 

[swexlin]

After a little forum searching, I've found very few similar threads like this. One thread mentioned low battery voltage. I suppose that could be it, but the car had no problem starting (no long cranking) that's usually indiciive of a battery problem. She always lights up right away.

Only other thing I can think of is fuel pump prime. Maybe after sitting, she just hadn't built enough pressure yet. I always wait a few seconds after turning the key before I push the start button. (Kind of force of habit, waiting for the Cummins in my truck to heat).

If it were a pump issue, I would think every time I was idling at a light there would have been a problem, which was not the case. Still leaning towards condensation in the fuel line.

 

[Steve-Indy]

Above all sounds plausible. Would not worry unless you get more of the same. A touch Techron in the fuel wouldn't hurt.

Out of interest, how old is the battery?

Come warm weather you can cheek out everything...air filters, throttle body, plugs, wires, etc etc.

As a pilot, one generally only puts the aircraft away with empty tanks ONCE...water from condensation will kill you !!

 

[swexlin]

I've had this happen to me a few times for no apparent reason, and had the exact same thing happen when I've disconnected the battery for long period of time. About the only thing I can attribute it to is the controller sometimes 'burps' and loses some start-up calibration data. After holding the throttle down for a couple seconds, all is well again - exactly what happened to yours.

That was another thought I had - computer gremlins. My SRT8 Charger has had the occasional start-up hiccup, for no reason. Since I keep the Viper in "sleep mode" maybe it was a controller issue.

 

[Martin]

I'll wager it has to do with the battery... The first time this happened to me was right after doing some work on the car with the battery disconnected. When I went to start it, it idled like crap, and then died after about five seconds. I started it back up, gave it some gas, and it quickly sorted itself out. Since then, it's happened a few times for 'no apparent reason', but I don't use a battery tender all the time, and these things are really finicky about the battery voltage. Even though the battery can have enough energy in it to start the car (probably low voltage, but still enough amps), if the voltage is a bit low, the controller might burp. I wouldn't worry about it too much - but I would probably check the age of the battery and be prepared to get a new battery sometime soon.

 

[swexlin]

Out of interest, how old is the battery?

Steve, i'm a bit embarassed to admit, I don't know. I've never checked it. I'm the 3rd owner, so not sure if it's ever been replaced.

Since my daily is a Dodge Cummins, I'm usually pretty good about keeping fuel tanks full. But I've never been as concerned with gas engines. I started the Charger for the first time in 3 weeks as well on Thursday, and she sits outside! She also has about 1/2 tank. It's a 2007 on the original battery, with 14,000 miles. She cranked for a few seconds, then a rough idle, then settled in.

I'll see what happens next time I start the Viper cold (won't be a least for a week - could be 10!! with this weather.) WIsh I could keep a battery tender on her, but the garage where she is parked has no outlet.

 

[Red Snake]

Get a battery tender. $30 is not much to spend to greatly prolong the life of your battery. Also, use some Sta-bil in the winter time. Even if the car will only be sitting for a few weeks.

Cheap insurance to keep you car in good shape.


Amazon.com: Battery Tender 021-0123 Battery Tender Junior 12V Battery Charger: Automotive

$23 plus shipping.

 

[swexlin]

Red Snake, wish I could use a tender, but the garage where she is parked has no outlet.

I think Martin may be on to something. It's been very cold, and she has sat for 3 weeks. Battery voltage (and/or condensation) probably the issue. Even a brand-new battery would have low voltage issues in the temps we have had recently.

 

[Steve-Indy]

swexlin, our 03 is in exactly the same boat this winter due to an "unexpected expansion" of our Viper family !!

You might consider trying a low output solar panel...plugging it in to the power outlet in the console.

On our Gen III and IV's, I switch batteries early on to the Sears Die-Hard Platinum ...heavy, but in a different league than my old favorite Die-Hard Gold.

 

[swexlin]

Steve, wish I could! The garage where I have it has no windows - it is in one of several locked bays in a large concrete building locally that caters to those of us without garages at home (I live in a condo). So, no solar panel either. I'm SOL! Got a model number for that Die Hard Platinum off the top of your head for a Gen III? Thanks.

 

[Steve-Indy]

Sears Die-Hard Platinum (series 34) It is also an AGM design with a great projected service life and good warranty. It's actually made by EnerSys...who also makes the Odyssey batteries.
It's around 52 lbs, and retails for about $190.00.

 

[swexlin]

Thanks Steve. 52 lbs! That's pretty hefty. Well, I guess it helps keep that rear-end planted!

 

[swexlin]

Just ordered a Series 34 from my local Sears. I'll pick it up on Saturday (first chance I'll have) and put it in, and report back.

Thanks for you help guys.

 

[Nader]

Definitely low battery. When mine runs low it wants to die until it gets warm.

 

[bluesrt]

could also have been sticky injectors, it happens alot,and more and more now with this gas we have, ***** stuff

 

[swexlin]

Definitely low battery. When mine runs low it wants to die until it gets warm.

Good advice. After the re-start though, she ran like a champ the whole drive. That's why I'm gonna replace it now, rather than wait.

 

[VIPER R]

Every once in awhile, a low battery needs to be charged at a higher rate. Trickle charging and long drives aren't enough to bring them back.

 

[swexlin]

Good advice, and exactly why I'm replacing it.

 

[Joseph Houss]

I believe the idle control sensor is utilizing 12 volt, and needs full voltage for a valid read. I recall this being the case in the Gen 2, this could cause poor idle when the battery is either low... or faulty.

Might have just been a glitch until the battery got up to a full voltage state?

 

[swexlin]

I believe the idle control sensor is utilizing 12 volt, and needs full voltage for a valid read. I recall this being the case in the Gen 2, this could cause poor idle when the battery is either low... or faulty. Might have just been a glitch until the battery got up to a full voltage state?

This seems to be the consensus. This is why I love this forum - you can pretty much get your answer, and quickly!

 

[pure zen]

I've had this happen to me a few times for no apparent reason, and had the exact same thing happen when I've disconnected the battery for long period of time. About the only thing I can attribute it to is the controller sometimes 'burps' and loses some start-up calibration data. After holding the throttle down for a couple seconds, all is well again - exactly what happened to yours.

Martin is correct, when disconnecting the battery, or maybe the 'sleep mode' being used, causes the computer to need re-setting with new data. You should take the car out for a drive after re-connecting the battery or bringing it out of sleep mode,,,,not just let it sit and idle.

 

[swexlin]

Oh yes, I did and always do! I've been using sleep mode pretty much every time I park her.

 

[swexlin]

New DieHard installed! When I went to start her this morning, again very cold, she did the same thing - a weak idle, then zip. Restart, touch throttle, fine. Let her sit and idle 5 minutes, then literally across the street to get gas. Restart afer getting gas was fine. So, I guess Marin was right - that initial low voltage start is what does it.

The old battery was some no-name brand, not the original but didn't look very stout. Now that the new battery is in, she lit instantly, not maybe a second or two like with the old one. Hopefully, this will solve the issue. Gotta give that old one credit for lasting as well as it did, especially condsidering there's an Eclipse amp in the trunk.

Had her out for a spririted 30+ mile drive today too. Once the tires warmed up, wasn't too bad.

 

[09 Venom]

I always try to make sure that before storing I have a full tank of fuel. Part of my storing routine. Hopefully that was the cause. Another pointer, when sitting for a long time is, it might be a good idea to let the car come up to operating temp before you take her out for a quick spin. 20 min. maybe.

Absolutely agree!