Oil Change Update for Gen IV

[BlknBlu]

Yes I know another oil change thread but this one has a twist.

I took my car for it's first 500 mile oil change and expect the normal routine to change the oil. I validate the correct filter and they cart out Penzoil 5W-40 Platinum series synthetic oil. I take a double take at the box and state this is not Mobil 1 0W-40. After going back into the parts section of the dealership I speak with the parts counterfolks and they show me a document from dealerconnect the states the following:

Effective date : 04/01/09
Model year Out: 2008

Supersedence Narrative:
Q horse power 5W-40 & Penzoil Platinum
5W-40 is the recommended replacement
for Mobil 1 0W-40 European Formula
Dealers should order 05127394AB


So I went with the Penzoil and it took exactly 11 quarts.

Any thoughts?

Bruce

 

[01sapphirebob]

When chrysler was about to go file bankruptcy and ask uncle sam for a bunch of money, Mobil 1 pulled away from Chrysler since i'm assuming they couldn't pay them for the oil they were using. I still use the Mobil 1 0w 40 for my Gen IV.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

They buy oils by price and contracts, the Mobil1 contract was up and "Penzoil" won the next one. I won't use anything but the 0-40 in my personal car and we still use the Mobil1 here at our store for the discriminating Viper/SRT owners.

 

[Steve-Indy]

Mobil 1 0W-40 here also...as is marked on the oil cap of our 08 and 10 Vipers.

 

[Viper X]

Mobil 1 15w50 works better in the summer and at the track.

 

[JonB]

Two Words: "Lowest Bidder"

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

I brought this up months ago on here and asked Helbig when the oem cap would say something other than Mobil 1. No reply !!! I had my dealer go get Mobil 1 from a parts store and then do the oil change. Since then I have stocked up on Mobil1 0w40 and just pay the service fee to change with "customer supplied own oil" on the work order. Hope many others will do the same.

 

[swexlin]

This is correct. This was a big deal for us SRT8 owners when it occured, and there was much discussion on the differnt LX-car forums. Bottom line, there are bigger things to worry about. Unless you drive your car in VERY cold temps, the 5W will work just as well.

I've been having my dealer change the SRT8 and the Viper with the Pennzoil, and have noticed no difference in performance nor oil temps or pressure (the 07 SRT8 has an EVIC that shows all this data, my 03 Viper doesn't).

If you REALLY want oil arguements, you oughta come over to a couple of my Cummins diesel forums!!

 

[Viper X]

Two Words: "Lowest Bidder"

Yeah, seems this applies to other Viper parts too, like headers and shocks on the ACRX ..... and I'm sure there are other things.....

 

[Viper Specialty]

All of the above is correct... run the M1 0W-40.

 

[viperdrummer]

They buy oils by price and contracts, the Mobil1 contract was up and "Penzoil" won the next one. I won't use anything but the 0-40 in my personal car and we still use the Mobil1 here at our store for the discriminating Viper/SRT owners.

Assuming there is a M1 5-40 what would be wrong in using it.?

 

[TAXIMAN1]

Assuming there is a M1 5-40 what would be wrong in using it.?

AMG Mercedes used to recommend the M1 0w40. Now they want you to use M1 5W40

 

[JonB]

Couple of random things:

What is displayed on the oil cap was pertinent and relevant at the time it was written. My 1996 GTS owners manual was decided /printed in 1995, and oil cap says "Mobil One 10-30". But I never ran ONE fill of 10-30 in it, because better options existed by the time the car came out.....and I drove a lot of track events back then. Chose 10/40 or 15/50. Always synthetic.

The Gen-4 motor wants good oil pressure RIGHT AWAY, and 0-wt oil does that perfectly. POW, the oil pressure rises immediately when the car starts. IF, as a track rat, YOU USE 15-50, you are savvy enuf to know you HAVE TO WARM-UP the engine when the oil is cold. {Cold, as in ambient temperature, even 90f) You need to get the oil supply everywhere before drivng away.... You have an oil-temp guage...USE IT!

5-40 wont make much of a difference, but it will make a slight diff. WARM UP A MINUTE OR TWO!

I hope we can get Tom/Flogor and/or MY600HP to weigh in here.....

 

[swexlin]

5-40 wont make much of a difference, but it will make a slight diff. WARM UP A MINUTE OR TWO!

Real world, only in below 0*Farenheit temps. I'm having a flashback to about a year ago, when we debated this ad nasuem over on the SRT8 boards.....

 

[RTTTTed]

Mobile 1 was bought out by Exxon, right? Mobile 1 can now sell Group 3 and Group 2 oils instead of only synthetics?

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Howdy.

Multigrade motor oils are made by starting with the thin base oil to meet the 0W-xx or 5W-xx requirements, and then a thickening additive (viscosity index improver) is added to make the oil behave like a thick oil when it gets hotter. Synthetic oils need far less of this additive than mineral oils because they have an inherently higher viscosity index (change viscosity less with change in temperature) than mineral oils. In practical terms, unless you start your car at -30C (5W-xx limits) or -35C (0W-xx limits) for the typical Viper owner it won't matter.

Both these oils are xxW-40, so they will both be essentially the same "thickness" when hot. The spec sheets are both showing ~ 3.7 HTHS.

It is the additive package that determines the actual performance level. In Europe, half the passenger cars are diesels, so the additives have to deal with both gasoline engines and diesel engines. That means it is quite a robust package for wear protection, soot and cleanliness, blowby and acids getting into the oil, turbo engines (!), and longer oil drains.

The Pennzoil products page spec sheet:
http://www.pennzoil.com/documents/PENNZOILULTRAEuropean5W40.pdf

The Mobil page:
Mobil 1 0W-40

They are both API SM/CF, ACEA A3/B3/B4, MB 229.3 and 229.5, BMW Long Life... I daresay unless you change your oil at 15,000 mile intervals like they do in Europe, there will not be any difference whatsoever.

Pennzoil is part of Shell Oil Product US (SOPUS) and they have a different marketing sense. Remember "nitrogen enriched gasoline"? Well, all gasoline in the US is required to contain cleaning additives and all these additives contain nitrogen - derivatives of ammonia, a good cleaning agent. So Shell has a good, clever, technical jargon oriented marketing team.

Mobil synthetic oil products are marketed via name and brand association. Mobil is into racing sponsorships, factory fill for many sports cars, etc. They pay to have their name on the oil fill caps, Dodge or Corvette or another car company does not do that for free.

And now a word from... me! If they both have synthetic base oils, they both are convenient wide-spread multigrades, and they both have lots of additives, what is the "best" oil? In my opinion, the base oil matters less than other things and the additives matter more than most believe. Consequently I have always recommended diesel engine oils because they have had 2X the amount of additives.

Only because it was easier (not a recommendation) I show the Mobil 1 5W40 diesel oil spec sheet:
Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40

Wow. API SM/SL/CJ-4/CI-4 PLUS/CG-4, ACEA, Cat, Cummins, MB, etc, etc. And because the marketing expenses of diesel oils are lower, the per-gallon cost vs. the above oils is less. I personally use a mineral oil diesel oil, but if you want to stay with synthetics, then the diesel 5W-40 (Mobil Delvac 1, Shell Rotella synthetic, Chevron Delo synthetic) is about the most robust, all around toughest oil you can find.

 

[swexlin]

Excellent info, Tom, as always, and reinforces what I had said about 0W vs 5W - only matters if starting your car at the North Pole!

 

[BlknBlu]

So I guess my question was answered, however will anyone have warranty issues with using a non recommended oil or even the wrong weight?

Bruce

 

[TrackAire]

Tom,

I was just going to ask if you thought the 5W-40 Mobile 1 diesel oil is good for the Gen IV's.

I am shocked to see the new Shell Rotella full synthetic 5W-40 diesel motor oil at Wally World for $19.00 for a four quart jug. That's not much more than some premium dino oils on the shelf next to it.

Do you have any info on this new synthetic Rotella?....seems cheap enough to use it in everything else besides the Viper.

Cheers,
George

 

[Canyon707]

it's all grade 4 oil. If you want race oil grade 5 then buy it. i change it every 2500 miles. Here is a link on oils Oils Against Oils - Major Oil Brands go head-to-head on the dyno.

 

[dans69ss]

Castrol Syntec 5W-40 is also another good oil.

 

[Sneaky Pete]

I am shocked to see the new Shell Rotella full synthetic 5W-40 diesel motor oil at Wally World for $19.00 for a four quart jug. That's not much more than some premium dino oils on the shelf next to it.

Do you have any info on this new synthetic Rotella?....seems cheap enough to use it in everything else besides the Viper.

Cheers,
George

They had this oil for $12.xx at Wallyworld for years, up until the price drastically jumped up about two years ago. It was a steal at the old price.

I would use it w/o hesitation in my Vipers, in fact I do use in both my TT and my track car. Fantastic oil!

As tom mentioned, the Rotella synthetic 5-40 is a premium oil with a very robust additive package. Tough to find a better oil IMO.

And to the OP, using that oil will certainly not void your warranty. As far as protection goes, I'd guess just about any oil would offer you plenty of protection for how you'll likely use and drive your car.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Tom,

I was just going to ask if you thought the 5W-40 Mobile 1 diesel oil is good for the Gen IV's.

I am shocked to see the new Shell Rotella full synthetic 5W-40 diesel motor oil at Wally World for $19.00 for a four quart jug. That's not much more than some premium dino oils on the shelf next to it.

Do you have any info on this new synthetic Rotella?....seems cheap enough to use it in everything else besides the Viper.

Cheers,
George

In my days at Texaco, the passenger car Havoline motor oil sponsored Robert Yates Racing in NASCAR, Newman Haas Racing in CART, Jaguar F1, and Brad Anderson in Funny Car - all at the same time. Direct payment to teams was ~$40MM/yr or more? Add all advertising, hospitality, etc, etc, and spread costs over 60MM gallons and the added charge per quart sold was maybe $0.25. Havoline marketing got away with it because the costs were spread over all engine oils, including the diesel oil. My point is that all the TV ads cost the passenger car oil segment, not the diesel segment. Ever see an ad for Rotella oil? There might be $1/gal or so difference between any diesel oil and any passcar oil just due to advertising costs.

Many synthetics (even some Mobil oils, I heard) are Group III base oils, which are very highly refined mineral oils. Don't get excited - they are so good even the experts cannot easily distinguish between Group III and Group IV (PAO synthetics) oils, except that Group III costs about 1/3 less.

I would not even think about Group III vs. Group IV, just buy it.