Problems with Woodhouse frame recall, Details inside.......

Mike Brunton

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Bob and Paolo are on the phone now... let's hope they work this out to their mutual satisfaction.

Janni, sorry if I came across the wrong way - I thought you were "snapping everyone back in line" but it seemed most were being objective. It seems that Woodhouse does have some "issues" in the service area though, according to Chris and some others.
 

Moundir

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Wow I am amazed at all of this. I bought my car from Woodhouse and had them isntall a few goodies before taking delivery of the car. Everything was flawless, and the custom alignment is on the money. Sorry to hear about your story Paolo, sound like a real mess. Just wondering in your 3 weeks of calling and leaving messages if your Italian temper didnt get the better of you?? Cant wait to hear the other side of this.
 

Bob Woodhouse

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As most of you know we do our best to deal with each of our clients in as professional manner as possible. Do we make mistakes, absolutely!
I am sorry I have been out of town. In my last conversation with Paulo, by phone, involved a request for substantiation of the $400.00 he asked me for. I need a photo, a repair invoice and/or a shop name to support any refund request. Today I spoke to Paulo and he agreed to send me the photo I have been waiting on.
This issue will have a simple common sense resolution.
 

Mike Brunton

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Good deal Bob!

I'm glad this seems to be all-set to be worked out. Seems like a case of Bob being extremely busy, there being some confusion on how the refund would be handled.

Anyone in business has the occasional issue that arises - it's how you deal with them that counts.


So Bob what about the $5k you owe me?

Just kidding
 

King GTS

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As most of you know we do our best to deal with each of our clients in as professional manner as possible. Do we make mistakes, absolutely!
I am sorry I have been out of town. In my last conversation with Paulo, by phone, involved a request for substantiation of the $400.00 he asked me for. I need a photo, a repair invoice and/or a shop name to support any refund request. Today I spoke to Paulo and he agreed to send me the photo I have been waiting on.
This issue will have a simple common sense resolution.

Well. Looks like Apex needs to take note of this post. :2tu:
 

MannyC

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Good deal Bob!

I'm glad this seems to be all-set to be worked out. Seems like a case of Bob being extremely busy, there being some confusion on how the refund would be handled.

Anyone in business has the occasional issue that arises - it's how you deal with them that counts.


So Bob what about the $5k you owe me?

Just kidding

Um.... if it was "just being extremely busy," why did they tell Paolo that they were no longer accepting calls from him? Sounds like something is being covered up now that this got posted online.

Crappy part for Woodhouse is that now this thread is going to be one of the first things that popup when people do a search on them, since the searches list results by newest to oldest. This is the one thing businesses want to avoid.

Just my 2 cents, and hope all works out for Paolo, as I have spoken to him and he's a stand-up guy.
 

Mike Brunton

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Good deal Bob!

I'm glad this seems to be all-set to be worked out. Seems like a case of Bob being extremely busy, there being some confusion on how the refund would be handled.

Anyone in business has the occasional issue that arises - it's how you deal with them that counts.


So Bob what about the $5k you owe me?

Just kidding

Um.... if it was "just being extremely busy," why did they tell Paolo that they were no longer accepting calls from him? Sounds like something is being covered up now that this got posted online.

Crappy part for Woodhouse is that now this thread is going to be one of the first things that popup when people do a search on them, since the searches list results by newest to oldest. This is the one thing businesses want to avoid.

Just my 2 cents, and hope all works out for Paolo, as I have spoken to him and he's a stand-up guy.

I honestly don't know... want my opinion? :)

I speak to Paolo a fair bit, and I think he's first a really nice and genuine guy, and second pretty energetic and full of life. The kind of guy you want to hang out at the bar or club with, and definitely not someone who is afraid to speak his mind or be anything less than up front.

I also have talked to Bill quite a lot, and he is a very different personality - relaxed and quiet and funny, but in a different way - the kind of guy you could shoot the $h!t with for a few hours just talking about nothing in particular.

So what happened? I dunno. But I am guessing some sort of personality clash occurred between the two, and with Bob away it didn't make things any easier. It does look like Paolo was in the right in wanting his car fixed correctly, and Bob has come through to fix it. So, the *business* side of this seems to have been taken care of, or at least is in the process of being taken care of, and I'm guessing that is Paolos main concern.
 
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1. As far as the moderation, I am dumbfounded. I turned in my "wand" months ago and don't have any idea why an objective thread would be tampered with or deleted. It meets all of the board rules, including "first hand" (not 3rd party) experience. Besides Woodhouse, hopefully somebody else will chime in as to why this thread is being micromanaged.

I can only guess, Chris, as I just got home from work...talk about a full inbox!! :) I would have thought you would know...."Generally" speaking, threads can be put "on hold" in accordance with rule #3:

3. Negative statements about vendors, customers, or others must be first hand, and substantiated. Furthermore, we reserve the right to hold negative posts until substantiated, and to give the parties reasonable time to work it out.

Now...I am under the impression, just from glancing at e-mail as fast as I could, that this is what happened, but I can't be sure. I could name a handful of tuner/vendors I have done this for....and they aren't always sponsors. Is it 100% perfect? You know the answer to that as well as I do. :)

If I had seen it, I would have removed it to the recycle bin, left a pointer (wouldn't work...but at least there would be a trace...reminds me, I need to fine-tune that so the trace is understandable to everyone), I would have called Paolo, and Bob....and if needed, restored the thread.

I am hoping that helps a little bit. :2tu: <---cool new smilie

As a general note to all...I did not post in this thread to shift the focus, please, please respect that.


>Late edit>
Please let me just say that I would do what I wrote above...not because I doubted EITHER side of the story. It is more, well, like Paolo wrote....it is not really the first thing most people want to do (IMVHO), and I would just want to make sure this was the road we wanted to go down. NO other agenda than that. If you thinnk otherwise...I am sorry. :(
 

Y2K5SRT

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1. As far as the moderation, I am dumbfounded. I turned in my "wand" months ago and don't have any idea why an objective thread would be tampered with or deleted. It meets all of the board rules, including "first hand" (not 3rd party) experience. Besides Woodhouse, hopefully somebody else will chime in as to why this thread is being micromanaged.

I can only guess, Chris, as I just got home from work...talk about a full inbox!! :) I would have thought you would know...."Generally" speaking, threads can be put "on hold" in accordance with rule #3:

3. Negative statements about vendors, customers, or others must be first hand, and substantiated. Furthermore, we reserve the right to hold negative posts until substantiated, and to give the parties reasonable time to work it out.

Now...I am under the impression, just from glancing at e-mail as fast as I could, that this is what happened, but I can't be sure. I could name a handful of tuner/vendors I have done this for....and they aren't always sponsors. Is it 100% perfect? You know the answer to that as well as I do. :)

If I had seen it, I would have removed it to the recycle bin, left a pointer (wouldn't work...but at least there would be a trace...reminds me, I need to fine-tune that so the trace is understandable to everyone), I would have called Paolo, and Bob....and if needed, restored the thread.

I am hoping that helps a little bit. :2tu: <---cool new smilie

As a general note to all...I did not post in this thread to shift the focus, please, please respect that.


>Late edit>
Please let me just say that I would do what I wrote above...not because I doubted EITHER side of the story. It is more, well, like Paolo wrote....it is not really the first thing most people want to do (IMVHO), and I would just want to make sure this was the road we wanted to go down. NO other agenda than that. If you think otherwise...I am sorry. :(

Tony, I stand corrected and humbly apologize to you and the other mods/admins. I vaguely remember this rule being put into place and just commented on it elsewhere - also hat in hand. How soon we old farts forget... ;) I suppose I should have those posted on my PC by now!
 
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Hey...I'm easy (just ain't cheap). I must admit that I thought I made myself sound like an old grandpa (no offense all you grandpas out there!!!). I did not mean to come off that way, I apologize for that. I was just chiming in. I have honestly seen instances where posting has actually NOT helped (and possibly hurt), so I generally like to just make sure. :headbang:

Good night.
 

PirateViper

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OK what kinda cheese you want with that whine....take your ball and go home now...woodhoue and pemberton are a class act and those that truely know them know that !!!!!!!!Bob will handle HIS businees,cut your losses and keep up your good work....10% of the people give you 90% of your trouble.
 

Jay Herbert

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1. As far as the moderation, I am dumbfounded. I turned in my "wand" months ago and don't have any idea why an objective thread would be tampered with or deleted. It meets all of the board rules, including "first hand" (not 3rd party) experience. Besides Woodhouse, hopefully somebody else will chime in as to why this thread is being micromanaged.

I can only guess, Chris, as I just got home from work...talk about a full inbox!! :) I would have thought you would know...."Generally" speaking, threads can be put "on hold" in accordance with rule #3:

3. Negative statements about vendors, customers, or others must be first hand, and substantiated. Furthermore, we reserve the right to hold negative posts until substantiated, and to give the parties reasonable time to work it out.

Now...I am under the impression, just from glancing at e-mail as fast as I could, that this is what happened, but I can't be sure. I could name a handful of tuner/vendors I have done this for....and they aren't always sponsors. Is it 100% perfect? You know the answer to that as well as I do. :)

If I had seen it, I would have removed it to the recycle bin, left a pointer (wouldn't work...but at least there would be a trace...reminds me, I need to fine-tune that so the trace is understandable to everyone), I would have called Paolo, and Bob....and if needed, restored the thread.

I am hoping that helps a little bit. :2tu: <---cool new smilie

As a general note to all...I did not post in this thread to shift the focus, please, please respect that.


>Late edit>
Please let me just say that I would do what I wrote above...not because I doubted EITHER side of the story. It is more, well, like Paolo wrote....it is not really the first thing most people want to do (IMVHO), and I would just want to make sure this was the road we wanted to go down. NO other agenda than that. If you thinnk otherwise...I am sorry. :(


Tony is correct. Board Policy was being followed exactly to rule (3) as posted above. Paolo and Woodhouse were both communicated to, and users can see the result in Paolo's post above.

It is unfortunate that Paolo reposted before the two parties had time to even talk to each other. It was both inappropriate and against and board policy to do so. If anyone has questions, feel free to email me, or start a discussion in the Board and Site Suggestions/Questions forum.
 

DEVILDOG

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This is very upsetting to hear. I'll reserve judgement until Woodhouse answers this post. However, it does not appear to me that the evident very poor mechanical work that was done on the car is in dispute. If you are the #1 Viper dealership in the USA you should return that customer patronage with the #1 repair service in the USA. Not securing a tie rod is inexcusable and just plain criminally negligent in my opinion. Woodhouse is very luck Paolo was not injured or killed as a result and obviously so is Paolo. To get the car back the second time with the alignment off horribly and the frame rail with a welding hole in it is just bad. I'd suggest that all the Viper Techs there be fired and start over from scratch. Also, service this bad reflects on the management and ownership. Apparantly they are not doing a good job either. Selling is one thing....reliable and safe service is another. There is no excuse for the crappy, unsafe repairs that were made or apparantly NOT made. Management is responsible to ensure appropriate checks are in place to ensure that the work done is correct and safe....PERIOD! I'd be extremely pissed if I and my car were treated with this crappy repair work...which is what caused this whole situation. If the person working on Paolo's car was not fired then I question management's ability to run a business properly.
 

Torquemonster

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Hey Paolo - I know this has been an ongoing problem for you and I trust you 100% that the problems are not in your imagination.

I also know that you paid them a significant sum of money to do extra work to the basic warranty work and had a right to expect a good job well done - why else would you drive 600 miles.

Whatever offense may have been taken even if you did get upset on the phone should not cause a barrier to a professional business doing the right thing.

It is a shame you were forced to go public to stop being ignored - but looks like it worked and that's better than nothing.

Glad to see a resolution appears just around the corner, by the sound of it Bob's word will mean more than Apex's. Keep us informed.
 

Vic

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Everyone gets their ******* in a bunch from time to time. If someone was hounding me with phone calls, when I know I didn't do something right, in a weak moment I might get irritated, expose myself for being the faulted human being that I am, and just shut the door until I wasn't so busy! We are all human, and you can't expect everyone to be a prince all the time. Sometimes guilty parties need a little time to address an issue. It happens. The harder you push someone who is in the wrong, the more likely they are to "close up", and the slower their response will be. This is human nature. (No one is walking on water around here, right?) I'm not saying that this type of behaviour is right, I'm just pointing out the reality of human interraction. which can help us deal with situations.

You fight with your wife, don't you? (Don't lie!) And you married her!!! So how much more common is it that two men occasionally lock horns? In the end, Bob will do what is right, because thats his basic nature.

I'm not trying to defend Bob so much, as I am trying to show how human nature works, and knowing and understanding this helps us all get what we want out of situations better, instead of becoming whiney itchbes. Part of good "people skills" means looking beyond the shortcoming of another, and getting them to do what is right. You can point out their faults later, over a drink or whatever, but first you need to get results. How we approach another person who has done something wrong, or owes us something, etc, can make all the difference in the speed and effectiveness of the resolution.

Here's a real life example of what I am driving at- My wife complains to Lowe's Home Improvement that she has been waiting for her special order for several weeks, and damn it where is it? (Etc, etc) She gets put on hold repeatedly, and each time some low-paid **** manager/sales puke gets on the line, she has to recount the whole excrutiating story over again to the next person who suppossedly is going to help her. I had a suspicion at this point that someone just dropped the ball, and the order never got placed. No low-level employee wants to get caught in a goof, so they avoid the issue, by not returning phone calls. (Especially if you are mad, you influence them to "shut the door" on you) Maybe they think most people will just blow it off, chaulk it up to the fact that there's no gravity, the earth just *****, and walk away. That of course, is not good customer service, but we all know large retail operations hire the lowest paid help they can get away with, and this is the reality of how many things fall through the cracks, by employees who just don't give a sh*t what happens to the customer. (Is it lunch time yet? Can't wait for Friday, I'm going to the river!) So how does a person get satisfaction, when going up against a big faceless corporation? If you are a real hot-head, you could go postal with your Glock, and that is the tough talking internet answer of so many Walter Mittys, who in actuality can only accept their sad fate with abject humility, when up against the immoveable might of a Lowe's, or other equally big and insensitive organization. You could also "sue 'till your blue", and if you do, they will make your contingency lawyer run away, once he sees their 20-mule team of corporate lawyers coming over the hill on thier mounted calvary. ("No quick settlement here, so sorry gotta run, I hear an ambulance over yonder") Put a lawyer on retainer? For what, a misplaced order? That would be akin to insanity. So what to do? Get mad? Kick the dog? Lets pick up our story where we left off-

Each time my poor little wifey has to tell the story to the next voice on the line, she gets madder and madder. And I, being the fine husband that I am, repeatedly offer to take up the issue for her, but she is on a mission now, and wants to prove that she can resolve it on her own.

And the madder she gets, the less anyone wants to talk to her, and pretty soon they even don't care what her problem is anymore, she is just an enraged itchb now, and when she calls, she gets put on "death hold"! So I say to her, they are now making a fool out of you, don't talk to the low level people anymore, you aren't getting anywhere with them. Call headquarters! So she does, and I get the guy on the phone, and I tell the mid-level manager in my calmest, but most clear and serious voice, that if we don't get satisfaction, the issue will go to the top, and heads will likely roll. He got very attentive!!! A few days later, my wife's products mysteriously appeared. Good thing that guy didn't know that I had no idea how to contact the "person at the top", but I made it sound like I did!

So the lesson here is that-
If you are wronged, don't keep doing the same thing over and over again, like telling your story to everyone in the organization. You expose yourself as weak minded and petty, it makes you look like a silly monkey, then you will get ignored, and marginalize yourself into a gadfly. The more venom you spill into another person's ear, the less likely they will want to do anything for you. That ain't right, of course, but it is human nature.
 

MannyC

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I'm still curious about what Paolo did that pissed them off so bad that they didn't want to take his calls. I can only recall one instance where I have ever done this with anybody while running my businesses, and that guy was one motherF'er that I would have rather seen 6 feet under. It was at that point that I stopped taking calls. Paolo, you must be one of those 10% that cause 90% of the problems. HA! Kidding, bro.

"Viper Jerry Springer"
 

Blade Runner

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I to have had nothing but great experiences with Woodhouse. I bought my 2001 RT/10 from Bill and when you chunk down that kind of money you must trust who you are dealing with. Bill Pimberton was always professional and up front about the car. It was received exactly the way he described it. This was my first experience purchasing a car over the Internet and my first Viper. I have great respect for the dealership. When I purchase my next car it will be from Woodhouse. Though they should change the name to the House of Wood!
 

pj

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OK what kinda cheese you want with that whine....take your ball and go home now...woodhoue and pemberton are a class act and those that truely know them know that !!!!!!!!Bob will handle HIS businees,cut your losses and keep up your good work....10% of the people give you 90% of your trouble.

A noob comes on here trying to school us in class acts? Nice.

Advise: get a couple posts under your belt, get to know the "players" and learn how to spell...
 

GTS Dean

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This is very upsetting to hear. I'll reserve judgement until Woodhouse answers this post. However, it does not appear to me that the evident very poor mechanical work that was done on the car is in dispute. If you are the #1 Viper dealership in the USA you should return that customer patronage with the #1 repair service in the USA. Not securing a tie rod is inexcusable and just plain criminally negligent in my opinion. Woodhouse is very luck Paolo was not injured or killed as a result and obviously so is Paolo. To get the car back the second time with the alignment off horribly and the frame rail with a welding hole in it is just bad. I'd suggest that all the Viper Techs there be fired and start over from scratch. Also, service this bad reflects on the management and ownership. Apparantly they are not doing a good job either. Selling is one thing....reliable and safe service is another. There is no excuse for the crappy, unsafe repairs that were made or apparantly NOT made. Management is responsible to ensure appropriate checks are in place to ensure that the work done is correct and safe....PERIOD! I'd be extremely pissed if I and my car were treated with this crappy repair work...which is what caused this whole situation. If the person working on Paolo's car was not fired then I question management's ability to run a business properly.

DoucheDog - You're way out of line. :rolleyes: Who pissed in your Wheaties today?
 

PirateViper

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Hey packet[playa] I have been a VCA member for 8 years and an avid reader of the forums.Just because I dont prattle on incessantly in every post does not mean I cant respond to a thread about friends of mine.I did not realize that a specific quantity of useless posts were a neccessity. I sure hope I can eventually qualify to participate with the rest of the playas.If and when this happens YOU be sure to give me clearance,Thanks. Oh and I hope my spelling and syntax meet your learned criteria professor.
 

Roadkill

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Hey packet[playa] I have been a VCA member for 8 years and an avid reader of the forums.Just because I dont prattle on incessantly in every post does not mean I cant respond to a thread about friends of mine.I did not realize that a specific quantity of useless posts were a neccessity. I sure hope I can eventually qualify to participate with the rest of the playas.If and when this happens YOU be sure to give me clearance,Thanks. Oh and I hope my spelling and syntax meet your learned criteria professor.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
What a dork.. might as well add in the part about you being a viper fan from the dawn of time.. You posted a stupid inflammatory remark when you don't have the common sense not to piss in your own boot. Paolo is a well respected poster here, so is packetjunkie.. You sir are nothing more than dirt currently as packetjunkie has so kindly (and accurately) identified your thread as nothing more than a troll.
:rolleyes:
 

PirateViper

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Ouch a DORK...man just glad you didnt call me a geek or nerd or dweeb or a feeb...gettin' my post #s up though!
 

pj

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Keep posting, when you've earned our respect you'll know. Til then you're still just a noob. :rolleyes:
 

PirateViper

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OK,thanks for the heads up,now at least I know were I stand...pow...another post!
 

BADVENOM

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I agree with DEVILDOG on this one. If any of us had this done to our viper we would be livid! Being in the service business myself there are no excuses for the poor repairs and most importantly, lack of timely communication from dealer to customer. If I treated my customers that way I would be out of business...Of course there are two sides to every story so lets wait to hear back publicly from Woodhouses side.

Adam
 
OP
OP
P

Paolo Castellano

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WHOA - you guys need to rein yourselves in a little bit.

You've heard one side of a customer service problem and are ready to hang someone? Someone who has a great reputation for both service and sales? All from one post?

Remember - no business has 100% satisfied customers. Sometimes there are customers that cannot be satisfied. Sometimes, it's not the amount, it's the principle. It's easy to make snap judgements without hearing all the facts. Sometimes, the business has nothing to gain by publicly responding and getting into an internet ******* match.

I hope this can be worked out and the results posted.

But if not, I'll balance this one problem with the other posts of very satisfied customers and make my own decisions.

First of all, I would like to thank everybody here for all the positive responses to the situation.

It is evident here, that nobody is perfect.==> How the mistake is handled
is what shows the true integrity of the individual or corporate entity.

I just spoke with the welder/fabricator earlier today who spoke to Bob way back in Feb-March when this was discovered. Neither he nor myself remembered having to take pictures of the hole, but he will fax the bill of what was done to Bob for sure. He will also try to talk to Bob today as well.

Everything seems to be going fine in the effort to resolve the matter.

I have only one negative comment so far......

...P.S. I have Janni's message saved for anybody who wants to hear it.


I just spoke w/Janni Cone and her voice is not the voice on the voicemail. Obviously someone is playing a game with us. I have to say Janni is a cool girl who is a Viper enthusiast to say the least. I hope to meet her in person someday!
 
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