Quality at CAAP

[yahllib]

We were making 14 cars per day which equals about 3500 per year. Now we are at 12 which is about 3000. Maybe, with a couple extra down weeks, we make 2000 to 2500 per year. ALL of them are built with pride and shipped as perfect as we can get them. There are no "inspectors" at CAAP. Everyone looks at the cars all day long. Hourly, management, engineers, suppliers, and anyone else who happens to be in the plant. Bumps? What kind of bumps? Dirt in the Paint? Or substrate? Fender warping? What? I did not see the bumps so it is hard to say what they are or what caused them. Dirty wheels did NOT leave our facility! The Reliable drivers really inspect the wheels so they won't be held financially responsible. No matter how hard we strive for perfection in producing Vipers, sometimes something slips out or gets by. From my limited experience, if a dealer gets a "bad" Viper, he will contact the plant with pictures and a note of displeasure. I personally think the Viper was OK when delivered. We build these cars for a very loyal group of owners (and future owners) and our job depends on making you happy with your Viper. We strive every day to make sure you get what you pay for: the best dam* sports car made in America. Yes, we were hand picked for this extrodinary project, and 99.99% are in tune with the program. Our plant will do whatever is nessecary to ship quality cars every day, every week, every month, and every year.

 

[Pythonpete]

I picked up my 2006 SRT Coupe Bumblebee in the 1st week in April. I am AMAZED at the quality, fit and finish of my VIPER. The paint is spectacular and I couldn't be happier with the car.

I thank you and your fellow workers for the work you did on my car.


-Pete

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

Yahllib, the quality shows through in my 2005 SRT/10. I couldn't be more happy. After owning a GEN II, I can see where DC is trying to please many different Viper enthusiast with different priorities. I see the Vipers refinements and the priority of quality in my new Gen III and look forward to owning many more Vipers in my life time. Thank you

 

[gts_2001]

No complaints here!

I was fortunate enough to pick up my 2001 GTS Bumblebee at CAAP and felt like the Red Carpet was rolled out for me and the others picking up cars that day! The level of pride and dedication among workers and management as well as the appreciation expressed for my purchase of their product was almost overwhelming. The level of fit and finish on the car was second to none. The paint had NO (none, nada, nyet, nein!) blemishes or imperfections whatsoever. (I cared for that car like a child...18 coats of polish, never washed..only dusted and wiped down affectionately with a mixture of Ethyl alcohol and distilled water as recommended by the factory groom!) Obcessive, you're farkinay right...show me a Viper owner who's not!

The 2003 Red SRT-10 vert was exactly of the same caliber and the 2006 SRT-C follows in the same tradition! FIRST CLASS GOODS!

We've all read the gripes about who's King Of The Hill (currently), the horsepower issues, adnauseum. I'm convinced that the people at CAAP take what they are given by upper management and give us their very best every day, week, month and year! I'm more than happy with what my cars have given me. For those that want more power, the resources out there abound...just go for it if you ask me. For the rest of us "mortals", I think the current product does just fine. I'm confident that the people in Auburn Hills and Stutgart are reading, listening and strive to give us better product with each generation.

So, here's my personal expression of thanks and satisfaction to all of the folks at CAAP that had anything to do with my cars...THANK YOU...JOB WELL DONE!

 

[twinturbo3150]

The only complaint I have is the painting of the stripes. I think they should have been painted under the clear coat. Instead of on top. Other than that I love the car.02

 

[Kaya]

I am so excited about my car and this post makes me more excited. To own a car that is basically handbuilt and inspected so may times.....nice. I would love to come to the factory sometime...unfortunately the car I ordered was already built and the dealer said it wasn't possible to pick up a car that was in a holding lot, at the factory. I was ready to get a plane ticket and drive it home

It is great to see a post from someone who builds these cars and the two new cars that I have looked at this year, have been absolutely perfect and both were black. No swirls, no orange peel...the paint was spectacular. The doors are tight, the hood fits snug....the interior is beautiful.

I have no doubt that I will be 100% satisfied and if for some reason that isn't the case, then I know my dealer will take care of me.

Thanks for posting and thanks for making such an awesome car.

 

[Sleeper]

My thanks to you Yahllib for responding re: quality @ CAAP. I am on my second SRT-10 and have absolutely no complaints relating to quality on my cars. In fact I would be delighted to tell the folks at CAAP that my current car, Copperhead 001/300, has been mechanically flawless, and fit and finish are awesome in this uniquely constructed car. I appreciate what went in to making this car.
I fear that many Viper owners do not "get" what goes on at CAAP, although the recent article in Viper Magazine ("Getting it Right", pp. 16-19) should help to bring all of us up to speed in this regard. The workforce at CAAP is the reason the Viper is the Best. Sadly, many owners don't realize it.
We are a small community of car owners who (disproportionately) enjoy the particular attention of a very large corporation. I just hope it doesn't end anytime soon.
So please tell the good folks at Conner Ave. thanks for the quality I found in my Copperhead!

 

[Paul S Lacey]

Yep even when they get shipped as far away as the UK they arrive perfect.

And the paint on mine is just great, a quick polish and it seems to glow on its own in the garage.

Thanks to you all for on the job quality control.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Yahllib,

Having been to CAAP on numerous occasions and working at a Dealership that has received more New Vipers over the past years than anyone, I can concur that in all likelyhood the issue is with the Dealer. We have found that the care given at CAAP is not often given, in like kind, at many Dealerships. We store ours in Warehouses, keep them off showrooms ( Vipers attract humans of all sizes like flies ) , etc. and the conditions described, sound like issues that happened at the Franchise. Yahllib noted that since CAAP employees are hand picked professionals working at DC's prestige job, pride is high , but since the car is hand built and humans are not perfect, maybe a few things slip by. We can attest that what does slip by is very minute and seldom happens with Gen IIIs. We have had good correspondence with the Plant in the past if there were issues and they were resolved quickly. With the new Coupe and convertible, the concerns have virtually disappeared and you can rest assured that the dedication reported is real, as those who have been to Connor Ave will attest --- the folks there are equally as passionate as the owners. We currently have over 35 new Vipers in stock and of those we have only one with a very tiny issue, and we don't know if it happened at the Plant or in shipping .....that is fantastic in the real World.


Sincerely,
Bill Pemberton
Woodhouse Chrysler,Dodge, Jeep,Viper, SRT

 

[Eagle]

I am extremely pleased with the quality in all aspects of my Viper. Eagle http://gallery.viperclub.org/data/500/9267P1010085-med.JPG

 

[pauljkopick]

Re: Quality at CAAP-Give me a answer

Have owned 10 vipers.Seven(7) out of ten(10) have been water leakers. My 05 VCA has to have towels put in the foot wells every time I wash it. My 04 was even more of a leaker. My 97 the cost to repair was close to 4k.My 01 had so many hours DC told the dealer to stop working on it.None were properly fixed. I dont even take my 05 in to have them work on it for the leaks.LOVE MY VIPERS,but dont tell me about GETTING IT RIGHT. Lets see if anyone from CAPP responds to this.

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Re: Quality at CAAP-Give me a answer

Have owned only Five Vipers 96RT-Great car, 97GTS- great car, 98GT-2 Great Car, 99ACR great car, 2003 SRT10 the best yet!

Were they all perfect? No! Am I perfect at what I do? No! Are you perfect at what you do? NO!

Perfection is a goal for use to achieve.

Have visited CAAP a couple times over a 8 or 9 year period, also visited, Roush Racing - CC production, ASC - paint and finishing plant for Viper body parts. From my limited experience Viper are built by people, like us, that love these cars as much as do.

Last night, at our monthly VCA meeting, we had approximately 30 beautiful Viper in the parking lot, and a like number of very happy owners.

If there is a problem the escaped production at CAAP or one of their suppliers just get it fixed and enjoy the best sports car made in America and as good as or better than many of the exotic cars that cost three times as much.

Vipers made by car lovers for car lovers. CAAP you make a Great Product and put smiles on the faces of the owners and the people that have a chance to see these cars. I was followed to my garage last night by a young driver who was so excited to see a GT2 that he follow me to tell me that was the most beautiful he has ever seen.

 

[gts_2001]

Re: Quality at CAAP-Give me a answer

If the shoe fits?

"dont tell me about GETTING IT RIGHT. Lets see if anyone from CAPP responds to this."

Res Ipsa Loquitur!

 

[Sleeper]

Re: Quality at CAAP-Give me a answer

[Res Ipsa Loquitur!

Yes, it certainly does. More than once in this case!

 

[viperdrummer]

Re: Quality at CAAP-Give me a answer

7 of 10 leaked--I would go play the lottery. I have a 95, 00 and 05, and never seen the first drop of water in the car. I buy lots of cars--I would put Vipers at the top of the heap in quality--much better than my Vettes.

 

[Flexx91]

Re: Quality at CAAP-Give me a answer

I never had a water leak problem with my '04 or '05 but did have a wiper problem. Problem was the wire at the switch in the steering column was never connected. This means the wiper/washer didn't undergo a functional check prior to shipment. Whoever claimed to have checked for functionality of this system obviously lied.

 

[Viperfreak2]

Re: Quality at CAAP-Give me a answer

90% of quality problems are due to poor design.

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Re: Quality at CAAP-Give me a answer

Viperfreak2,

Wow! Please help SRT by pointing out the design problems. We will all benefit.

Considering selling my Vipers now.

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Re: Quality at CAAP-Give me a answer

It was a beautiful day for ******* SRT10 driving. The design flaws must be hiding on this early 2003. Perhaps because it is Red? Just love driving my SRT10!

 

[pauljkopick]

Me too,Fred,got my leaky 05 out getting close to 15k on her.

 

[Quicksilver]

Just returned from a tour of CAAP last week, and if you think any one of the craftspersons is not 100% dedicated to producing as perfect a car as he/she can, you're nuts! I've seen it first hand, last week and 6 years ago when they were building Prowlers. Definitely a class act!!!!!!

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Quicksilver,

Agree with you 100%, I was trying to be politically correct but what the "H".

I was there last August(2005) and about ten years ago. I feel that CAAP is an outstanding group, from the assembly line workers to the white collar group. Their result is one fantastic sports car.

I enjoy the comments from the intellectual giants that criticize engineering design and also those who blame CAAP quality control for actions at dealerships.

 

[Kaya]

It is so easy to complain...and so easy to forget to compliment.....I am still eagerly awaiting my Viper and I am fully expecting a fantastic car.....how many other American cars are hand built in America?

 

[Viperfreak2]

I enjoy the comments from the intellectual giants that criticize engineering design and also those who blame CAAP quality control for actions at dealerships.

Maybe we should compare notes? My entire career has been: Automotive Quality.

In simple terms, if a 'craftsperson' cannot make a part fit with 100% consistency, it's not because they aren't trying hard enough, it due to cost cutting in the financial and engineering departments LONG before a single car is built. Design might have wants, but there are alot more departments who also have to meet company requirements. Cost, time and quality.

Example: there is a huge gap between the painted fender panel where it meets the bottom of my passenger door, and a tight gap at the top. The bottom of this part moves freely about 5mm. You can close the gap by putting pressure on the part.

Did the worker assemble it wrong, or should design have added a reinforcement or screw to hold it in place?

Fred, my statement is to point out that there's a lot more to quality than just the people or the parts, not pointing a finger at DC or Conner ave.

I guess you put your own spin on my simple statement.

Kaya, all cars are mostly handbuilt. The Viper is just a low volume, handbuilt car. The body in white and painting processes are largely automated, but all the final assembly is done by hand as no one has invented a robot cabable of running airbag screws, seatbelt bolts, installing carpets etc. BUT that day is coming....

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Viperfreak2 - "All cars are hand built"?

"And the body in white and painting process are automated?"

Not close to reality!

 

[Viperfreak2]

I've been to almost every automotive plant in Germany and hundreds of component suppliers. The assembly departments are 99% humans. Maybe a glass or seat install robot or two, but that's it. The plants (DC, GM and Ford) I've visited are the same. I don't know about Lexus, Toyota, Nissan, Kia etc. I just know the technology isn't there yet to have robots assembling cars (meaning FINAL assembly) SO, almost every part put onto the painted body is done by hand. Reality. The Viper is special because the frame has a lot of hand welding (some of it ugly stuff!) and the painted panels are outsourced. I think they are superior to most.

Fred, you can TRY and make yourself look smart, but arguing with a Doctor while having a heart attack doesn't make you smarter than the doctor. Should I debate driving schools with you? Nah, gotta listen to the experts.

I could point out the design issues to DC but that wouldn't help my company, now would it? It might help make a better Viper, but being loyal to the people I work for is more important. Besides, they have entire teams working on issues just like we do. Most of the resources are probably in the McLaren SLR and Mercedes SL areas, with the Viper being given 'slightly' less attention to detail....and budget.

This thread can either be used to help DC see what's important and needs improvement or shower praise on them for a job done well and let them take a well deserved break while working on the GenIV Viper. It's good that Americans are free to share our opinions.

By the way, when you use quotes for someone elses statements, you should copy and paste. You altered reality!:

"All cars are hand built"? I said "mostly hand built"

"And the body in white and painting process are automated?" I said "largely automated"

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Viperfreak2,

Your comments show you do not know how a Viper is produced. Body Panels are produced ASC. Each panel painted in a booth by a painter with an spray gun. The panels are then baked. Then Inspected and moved on for hand finishing. The panels are polished to perfection before shipped CAAP for assembly. I have been to ASC, toured the facility and meet some of the worker( who are very enthusiastic and proud of their quality.). This is not a dip and bake process used by high volume automotive assembly lines.

I have not been to a modern high volume vehicle assembly plant but I have seen videos from the same. And they do proceed down an assembly line supported with robots. CAAP is not a high volume assembly line. It has 31 stations staffed by special employees who love these cars as much as we do. They do their best humanly possible to make the best possible Viper.

Your comment quoted below is very constructive - NOT!

"I could point out the design issues to DC but that wouldn't help my company, now would it? It might help make a better Viper, but being loyal to the people I work for is more important. Besides, they have entire teams working on issues just like we do. Most of the resources are probably in the McLaren SLR and Mercedes SL areas, with the Viper being given 'slightly' less attention to detail....and budget. "

I have been very happy with my Viper's and your negative comments bare not fruit, IMO!

I find Your analogy very humorous.

 

[luc]

"Should I debate driving schools with you? Nah, gotta listen to the experts."

Viperfreak2:

Please don't stop arguing CAAP quality with MR Fred I-know-it-all,it could be the first time in the last 6 years that Mr Driving School do not use the words school,etc, in answering a post.... very refreshing.....

Luc.00GTS

 

[Viperfreak2]

Luc, point taken.

Fred, I didn't think my comments sounded negative. I think the Conner Ave guys (and girls) do a superb job with the resources they have. The ASC guys also produce a top quality paint job.

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Viperfreak2,

Now we can agree!

Luc,

I have been promoting Skip Barber for 9 years. It started after a local fatality in a Viper 96 RT. The drivers best friend was in the passenger seat and was killed. The driver also sustained critical injuries. There were stories about design flaws in the Viper spreading. It was amazing even my friends would tell me that me beloved Viper had design problems. When my wife came home from work(State Farm Claims adjuster) and told be Vipers were defective. The next step was a Skip Barber school. It was an eye opening experience. It was obvious most of us, except you Luc, are clueless about performance driving. So keeping Vipers and their drivers and passengers out of Body Shops is my goal.

Sorry Luc, there is zero chance that I will stop encouraging owners to take a Performance Driving School. It is the best way to maximize the Viper ownership while reducing accidents. If one knows how to drive, their stock Viper will be faster than a Viper with 100 or more horse power in the hands of the normal driver. To go fast the first step is to learn how to drive.