Road Race guys --- Question

[Martin D]

I have a buddy that just purchased a 2004 SRT. He plans on doing moderate road racing...I think he has dreams of setting records at Road Atlanta. (lol)

He was asking me what suspension and handling mods he should do. His budget is 15K. Since I know little about the SRT, and nothing about road racing, I am asking you all! Thanks in advance. I will send him to this thread and maybe he will introduce himself.

Regards,

 

[INSOMNIAC]

He was asking me what suspension and handling mods he should do. His budget is 15K.

Moton Clubsport Suspension with Eibach springs.
Lower the car.
18" CCW or some other wheels all around with Hoosier Slicks or Michelin Sport Cups if he wants to use them on the street too.
Quaife differential
Comp Coupe Oil pan
Autoform Roll Bar or Hard top (I like the hard top)
Teamtech 6 point harness

And to top this off with a Paxton would be awesome but it will be over his budget.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

If his budget is 15K and he's not a pro I'd get 5 or 6 points, spare set of track rims and spend the rest on brake pads, rubber and track time.
brake pads, rubber and track time.
brake pads, rubber and track time.
brake pads, rubber and track time.
brake pads, rubber and track time.
brake pads, rubber and track time.

If he's a pro I'd add Penskes or Motons and Quaife.

 

[Vipera Russelli]

1. He'll want/need the Autoform roll bar to get on the track. It's less expensive then the hard top, provides more protection, and in the case of some tracks and car clubs, the hard top is not an acceptable alternative to the roll bar.

2. Comp coup oil pan.

3. As Chuck points out, seat time, seat time, seat time, and more seat time.

4. Consumables--pads, rubber, gas!!!, oil and filter, brake fluid and even the clutch all add up in a big hurry, easily exceeding track fees per day.

5. Everything else is optional. My favorite is the Quaife, as it provides much better handling not only for performance but also for safety. Dedicated track rubber and wheels is next, followed by good track rubber.

Just my two cents.

 

[Scotty B]

I have a buddy that just purchased a 2004 SRT. He plans on doing moderate road racing...I think he has dreams of setting records at Road Atlanta. (lol)

He was asking me what suspension and handling mods he should do. His budget is 15K. Since I know little about the SRT, and nothing about road racing, I am asking you all! Thanks in advance. I will send him to this thread and maybe he will introduce himself.

Regards,

In order of importance my suggestion would be as follows:

* Roll Bar
* 5 point harness
* Comp Coupe swinging oil pickup/pan
* Aluminum flywheel
* Club Sport Motons
* Forgeline ZX3R Track Wheels 18x13 (r) & 18x11 (f) w/KUMHO's, Michelins if ya
can't get the KUMHO's
* CORSA Track Exhaust
* Mopar Diff cooler

That otta take care of your $15k and give him one helluva rockin BAD fast and dependable bullet proof track car to terrorize all the Porsches and Corvettes!

sbw

 

[1TONY1]

What about a driving school. I promise those concrete barriers at Road Atlanta are very hard

 

[luc]

I have a buddy that just purchased a 2004 SRT. He plans on doing moderate road racing...I think he has dreams of setting records at Road Atlanta. (lol)

He was asking me what suspension and handling mods he should do. His budget is 15K. Since I know little about the SRT, and nothing about road racing, I am asking you all! Thanks in advance. I will send him to this thread and maybe he will introduce himself.

Regards,

Are you sure that it is "road racing" and not "open- tracking" ?

If it's really road racing, beside getting a racing license, he will need to bring his car up to the safety standards of a race car, meaning a cage, fire system, racing seat and harness,a fuel cell etc....

For open-tracking, the only thing that he really need is a roll bar.

Even a stock SRT is a great track car and your friend will need a lot of seat time (and skills ) to even get close to it's limit.

Luc 00GTS

 

[rcl4668]

I'm glad someone started this thread; question: for just doing the occasional track day, is the comp coupe oil pan a must have? I actually spoke to one of the staff at Skip Barber racing school and asked them if they ever modified or had reason to alter the oiling system in the Viper SRT-10s they use at the school. He answered the cars are completely stock except for a kill swith to the ignition for the instructor and no, they had never experienced problems with oil starvation with any of the cars they had used.

My dilemma is that I want my car to remain as completely stock as possible, at least for now. Is there a downside regarding resale or originality by installing the comp coupe oil pan? I realize a major plus is that the part is an authorized Mopar Performance part but would it still have a negative impact on the resale value/originality of the car?

Same question for the Autoform rollbar; is removing the original roll hoops a major hit on resale value? Also, I have read some posts where installing the hoops may interfere with the function of the soft top (rubbing on the soft top, obscured visibility, etc.) Any truth to these concerns?

Thanks for your thoughts.

/Rich

 

[SylvanSRT]

the oil pan is not a must but it is a damn good idea and will give you piece of mind. if you do run into an oil starvation problem you could loose your motor and be without the car a month or two during a rebuild. the rollbar is something i would do(and did) if you are going to track, and most places may require it, i'd rather have the roll bar than a hard top. also invest in some harnesses it allows you to concentrate on controlling the car and not bracing your self in the seat.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

I'm glad someone started this thread; question: for just doing the occasional track day, is the comp coupe oil pan a must have?

Ideally we would all love to be driving fully caged SCCA approved track cars.

But if you're only doing occasional track days then just make sure everything is in good mechanical condition, brake fluid, brakes, tires, etc. and get out there ASAP. Don't let people scare you off by making you think you have to have all this equipment. You don't. Learning how to drive and increasing your skill is the most important safety factor.

After you get into tracking more and more then you should think about belts, bars, pans, etc.

The main thing is, get on the track and learn your car, any car, just do it.

 

[Kai SRT10]

Here is what I would get (listed in the order I think is most important.)


#1: Roll bar
#2: Six Point seat belts (The Team Tech belts were designed for the SRT-10, and the anchor points are already all there.)
#3: Comp Coupe oil pan
#4: 3 quart accusump (Because the Comp Coupe oil pan isn't always enough, as I found out.) Oil starvation will destroy your engine.
#5: 18 inch wheels, and sticky rubber. (Kumho or Pilot Sport Cups)
#6: SRF Brake fluid
#7: Quaife (gets the power down a lot better, and makes the car much more stable in the corners.)
#8: Motons (and springs.)


Most places also require that you have a fire extinguisher in the car. Parts rack sells a nice bracket mounted extinguisher for the passenger side seat. Obviously, you will also want a helmet, firesuit, gloves, etc.

For those who are on the fence regarding the oiling upgrades, here's a picture of what oil starvation will do to your connecting rods:

http://gallery.viperclub.org/showphoto.php/photo/21333/sort/1/cat/all/page/1

 

[quick2tr]

-Chuck 98 RT/10

Ideally we would all love to be driving fully caged SCCA approved track cars.

But if you're only doing occasional track days then just make sure everything is in good mechanical condition, brake fluid, brakes, tires, etc. and get out there ASAP. Don't let people scare you off by making you think you have to have all this equipment. You don't. Learning how to drive and increasing your skill is the most important safety factor.

After you get into tracking more and more then you should think about belts, bars, pans, etc.

The main thing is, get on the track and learn your car, any car, just do it.

I like this suggestion.

I tracked mine stock last year, only mod was a GPS data logger.

http://www.traqmate.com/

 

[Kai SRT10]

I tracked mine stock last year, only mod was a GPS data logger.

http://www.traqmate.com/

Can you give your impressions of the Traqmate?

Is it easy to use? Accurate? Useful? Reliable?

 

[INSOMNIAC]

1. He'll want/need the Autoform roll bar to get on the track. It's less expensive then the hard top, provides more protection, and in the case of some tracks and car clubs, the hard top is not an acceptable alternative to the roll bar.

Why would Autoform rollbar provide more protection than the Autoform Hardtop?
Autoform Hardtop is accepted at Viper day events and probably on all tracks for open track day sessions just like the rollbar.

Autoform rollbar is NOT a roll cage. It's not NHRA legal. You can't run faster than 11's with it on a drag strip. It's not Cromoly, it's mild steel. The plastic cover it comes with looks cheap and doesn't align like the factory cover. And it's very expensive for a rollbar, $2,000. The Corvette 4 point rollbars are $225. I don't see what's so special with the $2,000 mild steel Autoform rollbar and piece of black plastic. You can get a custom Rollbar or even better a Roll Cage done for much less than that. Any good performance shop should be able to build you a roll bar or a roll cage. It's not rocket science.

Now to build a hard top, that's tough. The Autoform hardtop looks high quality and gives the Viper a nice look but it's double the cost of the Autoform rollbar. Adding a full roll cage and a hard top would probably be the safest.

Don't the Viper SRT-10's running in the T1 series have Autoform Hardtop?

 

[Kai SRT10]

Why would Autoform rollbar provide more protection than the Autoform Hardtop?

Probably because of the attachment methods. The roll bar is bolted or welded to the frame of the car. The hard top is not.

The Autoform Hardtop is accepted at Viper day events and probably on all tracks for open track day sessions just like the rollbar.

That doesn't mean that the hardtop is as safe as the roll bar.


Autoform rollbar is NOT a roll cage. It's not NHRA legal. You can't run faster than 11's with it on a drag strip.

Actually, if your car is modified out of the "Pure Stock" category, you can't legally run faster than 13.49 with an Autoform roll bar under current NHRA regs.

It's not Cromoly, it's mild steel.

Mild steel has some advantages over other types of steel in that it will deform rather than break and crack. Some of the higher grades of cromoly are stronger but are more brittle.

The plastic cover it comes with looks cheap and doesn't align like the factory cover. And it's very expensive for a rollbar, $2,000. The Corvette 4 point rollbars are $225. I don't see what's so special with the $2,000 mild steel Autoform rollbar and piece of black plastic. You can get a custom Rollbar or even better a Roll Cage done for much less than that. Any good performance shop should be able to build you a roll bar or a roll cage. It's not rocket science.


It seems like just about everything on the Viper costs more than it "should."


Now to build a hard top, that's tough. The Autoform hardtop looks high quality and gives the Viper a nice look but it's double the cost of the Autoform rollbar. Adding a full roll cage and a hard top would probably be the safest.

No doubt a full roll cage would be safest, but that kind of defeats the purpose of having a convertible. And it may not be safer in all crashes. I know a guy who had a full cage put into his Vette. He went sideways into a wall, and broke his ribs because he was thrown violently against the (padded) door bar of his roll cage. If the cage hadn't been installed in the car, he would have walked away without injury.
Some day, I'm going to buy a Viper coupe just for track days and races. It will have a roll cage in it.

Don't the Viper SRT-10's running in the T1 series have Autoform Hardtop?

They run a hardtop and a roll cage.

 

[Viper X]

Martin D,

Some pretty good advice above. Like most of these guys, I have added most of the stuff mentioned above, and more.

You can track your car with just a borrowed hard top at Viper Days. Just don't push it in long, high speed right hand sweepers. The folks that run Viper Days know how serious this issue is and regularly run the tracks the best possible direction to avoid right hand sweepers for our cars.

I've seen several stock SRT-10's running stock tires blow their engines due to oil starvation. The last one was at the Viper Days event at Spring Mountain last fall. This was very disappointing for the new owner.

At that same Spring Mountain event a GTS was rolled over by a semi-experienced driver. The car had a roll bar. This probably saved both the driver and passenger / instructor from serious injury. I wouldn't track any convertible without it.

Six points are very valuable too. Without them, you will be tossed about and go home with sore elbows, knees and arms. You will also be much slower when trying to hold yourself in the seat while trying to drive.

I'm now doing what Kai suggests. I'm adding an Accusump and a larger oil cooler to my already modded comp coupe oil pan equipped SRT-10. Engines are just too expensive in Vipers.

Best advice, take a 2 or 3 day driving class in someone else's car before you or your friend try it in your Viper. Buy the insurance and have fun.

Good luck,

Dan

 

[Martin D]

Great advice guys. I will see that it gets shared.

Thanks!!!

 

[GR8_ASP]

Dan, My experience was long left hand turns. Are you sure about right turns? I intentionally overfill by 1 qt to minimize the potential for this issue and am switching to the 2006 pressure relief valve. I have observed the pressure dropping while in a double apex left hander which now gives me pause every lap (turns 5-6 at Gingerman).

 

[Joseph Dell]

For 15k, you can get a spec miata and still have 5k left over. I'd feel much better about wrecking that than a Viper...

JD

 

[rcl4668]

I assume that overfilling by 1 quart of oil will not be an issue for the day to day operation of the Viper engine. True?

/Rich

 

[Early93Viper]

For 15k, you can get a spec miata and still have 5k left over. I'd feel much better about wrecking that than a Viper...

JD

Yes, but there not half as fun as tracking a viper. That's what there made for guys!

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

First put $3,500 into a 3 day Skip Barber racing school.
http://www.skipbarber.com/racing_school/racing_school.aspx

To avoid this,

 

[GR8_ASP]

I only overfill for the track. Not a good thing but the lesser of evils. On the street I believe you would be hard pressed to pull the g's necessary to have an issue.

I have not had an issue in right handers at all, including numerous freeway on ramps (which we all know are challenges to achieve the 3 X the posted speed rule).

Now if you install track tires I would absolutely go to the CC pan and pick-up.

 

[SylvanSRT]

i can tell you that tracking a miata is lots o fun! i have driven mine around waterford hills road course quite a few times and with my sticky kuhmos the car on this tight of a course si just as much fun or more than the SRT. my miata is a giant killer and suprises many of M3, 911, S2000 and other sports cars cost many times as much. granted a stock '91 is 96 rwhp, mine is nearer to 165-170rwhp in a car that weights in at 2300 lbs.

 

[quick2tr]

- Kai SRT10
Can you give your impressions of the Traqmate?
Is it easy to use? Accurate? Useful? Reliable?

The Traqmate is a neat product. Best part about it is that it does everything as promised. It is definitely accurate with reported times/speeds/G's in hundredths. With the dash unit, it's an awesome lap timer with "instant gratification" as your in-car results confirm any driving style change you experiment with. The post session analysis is done using the provided, easy-to-use software. Software seems most useful in identifying entry-mid-exit speeds and G-loads for each corner. Speaking to reliability, it has not failed me yet.

 

[Kai SRT10]

- Kai SRT10
Can you give your impressions of the Traqmate?
Is it easy to use? Accurate? Useful? Reliable?

The Traqmate is a neat product. Best part about it is that it does everything as promised. It is definitely accurate with reported times/speeds/G's in hundredths. With the dash unit, it's an awesome lap timer with "instant gratification" as your in-car results confirm any driving style change you experiment with. The post session analysis is done using the provided, easy-to-use software. Software seems most useful in identifying entry-mid-exit speeds and G-loads for each corner. Speaking to reliability, it has not failed me yet.

Thanks for the input.

Looks like my Viper "wish list" just gained a new item.

 

[Viper X]

Hey GR8 ASP,

Sorry to know left handers can do it too. I haven't had any issues with long fast left hand turns yet but most tracks out here don't seem to have them.

Yes, long right handers have done a couple of SRT-10's in - as well as some GTS's on sticky tires. Turn 8 at Willowsprings brought a friends SRT-10's oil pressure down to 5 on the gage last August. He quit running so fast after a couple of laps scared him to death. Turn 8 also "grenaded" another friend's GTS two years ago, same event. If you have the balls, you can go through this long right hand sweeper very fast. 110 to 140mph. Another SRT-10 engine let go at Spring Mountain last fall in the right hand sweeper just before the front straight.

If you have taken a close look at our oil pans / windage trays, you will note that in a right turn, the oil simply stacks up against the left side of the pan with no where to go, even with the comp couple oil pan. I had West Coast Viper do the same mod to my comp coupe oil pan that they do to the comp coupes (McCann, etc.) i.e., cut some small trap doors into the windage tray on the left side of the pan where the oil stacks up. This allows the oil to drain into the bottom of the pan when in long, fast right hand sweepers so that it can be picked up and recirculated. I have photos, but haven't learned how to post them here yet. If you are interested, send me a pm and I'll send them to you.

This treatment seems to work, it helped raise my oil pressure about 25 lbs/inch while in this particular Viper engine killing turn.

Traqmate sounds cool. Anyone have a web site for it?

Dan

 

[rcl4668]

I would also be interested in this modification to the CC oil pan. I guess my immediate concern is using the Viper at my local track, Portland International Raceway (PIR) in Portland, Ore. Does anyone out there have experience tracking an SRT with a stock oil system at PIR? Any problems? PIR does have a long bak section that does curve right but I am not sure it meets the defiintion of a long right hand sweeper curve.

JonB or anyone from the local Oregon VCA, what say you?

Thanks.

/Rich