Rumors...what's the dealio?

[kratedisease]

I don't know what that means. I only pay on a few other forums to support the upkeep and time to the people who dedicate themselves to creating and maintaining the forum. Advertising pays for the rest. I was NOT initially aware of all the stuff that goes on behind the scenes in a boardroom, and I don't think ANYONE that is new here would ever imagine that.

What is the implication here: "only allows in people who agree that everyone's house should be decorated the SAME."

What I am saying is that with paid membership obviously you would have to commit some money to join. Many are advocating this since they say it keep out Trolls.( or as here they are defined as anyone with an opposing point of view or opinion)

I say that paid access only makes sure that there is no opposing opinions and stifles anyone who disagrees.

It is obvious that the VCA could not operate on membership access by fee only since mainly only Viper car owners would join, and fans/enthusiasts/non owners would possibly not commit. Many owners, like me, need help with technical/ upgrade/service issues that can only be found on this site and would be forced to join. But the non paying would not be allowed access.

Similar to a gated community. Only if you pay can you enter, ....but once you enter, your house must conform to the gated community guidelines.... no koi ponds, no high bushes, no gravel driveways, NO DISSENT.

 

[ohlarikd]

What I am saying is that with paid membership obviously you would have to commit some money to join. Many are advocating this since they say it keep out Trolls.( or as here they are defined as anyone with an opposing point of view or opinion)

I say that paid access only makes sure that there is no opposing opinions and stifles anyone who disagrees.

It is obvious that the VCA could not operate on membership access by fee only since mainly only Viper car owners would join, and fans/enthusiasts/non owners would possibly not commit. Many owners, like me, need help with technical/ upgrade/service issues that can only be found on this site and would be forced to join. But the non paying would not be allowed access.

Similar to a gated community. Only if you pay can you enter, ....but once you enter, your house must conform to the gated community guidelines.... no koi ponds, no high bushes, no gravel driveways, NO DISSENT.

The definition of Troll is vague for sure. In my mind, its someone that comes on here to cause trouble for fun. I wasn't thinking that a troll was someone with an opposing view, but I guess that is the impression we are getting with some of the moderation going on (from what I hear on this board). I would pay a small fee which would prevent trolls from POSTING, but anyone can READ these forums.

Before I owned a Viper, I was on this board. Hmm, I wonder if I would have paid $10 or so in order to gain access to post my 'pre-purchase' questions. I think I would have, but maybe many pre-owners would go elsewhere.

I agree that there should not be any moderation which seems to have business/monetary intentions. Again, I had NO IDEA all this stuff goes on. Most boards have moderation, but only to reduce profanity and abuse to other members, etc.

Anyway, $115 is a lot to pay for little to no benefit to me. It actually seems that since this club is a 'business', vendors are getting pushed out. So my $115 is even less valuable to me.

Anyway - this whole thing is like bizarro world to me. I have nothing in this, I am just observing, trying to understand the hoopla here, and enjoying my Viper.

 

[Mopar Steve]

It is said far too many times here "little to no benefits for the money" For a little over a hundred bucks (about $10 per month) here is some of what you get:


Just a few of the benefits of your membership:

* Carfax for only $10.00
* Nearly two Viper Club events a month in most regions
* Viper Magazine
* Separate forums for Members only
* Discounts with Viper Parts Of America
* Discounts with many of the other supporting Vendors
* Groovy membership card!
* Access to raffle cars
* Participation in Zone Rendezvous
* Viper Owners Invitational
* Voting privileges
* Access to club officers that will try to help you with Viper/Club problems
* Supporting the club that supports your favorite car.

All for ten bucks a month. Really? no value?

There is more I can't think of right now.

 

[ohlarikd]

It is said far too many times here "little to no benefits for the money" For a little over a hundred bucks (about $10 per month) here is some of what you get:


Just a few of the benefits of your membership:

* Carfax for only $10.00
* Nearly two Viper Club events a month in most regions
* Viper Magazine
* Separate forums for Members only
* Discounts with Viper Parts Of America
* Discounts with many of the other supporting Vendors
* Groovy membership card!
* Access to raffle cars
* Participation in Zone Rendezvous
* Viper Owners Invitational
* Voting privileges
* Access to club officers that will try to help you with Viper/Club problems
* Supporting the club that supports your favorite car.

All for ten bucks a month. Really? no value?

There is more I can't think of right now.

Those are all fine benefits, and if I wanted them, I would pay $115. Since I don't want / need any of those, I don't pay. And that is OK. I wasn't saying there are NO benefits, but like others, I don't have the time to attend these events enough to make it worth it. For those that do, great!

What I don't like is some of the forum restrictions, especially the local region forum. I can't coordinate with some local Viper owners to meet up somewhere without paying $115?

The money seems like a minor issue. I guess people are arguing how this club is 'run'. Since I don't pay $115, I don't really complain about it. Maybe I am a minority, but I come here for the people and technical knowledge.

 

[Bugman Jeff]

We're now hearing we're making changes, change is coming, we're getting things sorted out, etc. If, as has been suggested, the current problems have been going on for years, why did it take postings on other major websites and forums to get the ball rolling? Even many VCA members had no idea what was going on. This should have been an internal matter for the club, instead it took the VCA becoming the laughing stock of the automotive world to even get things started.

As to membership dues, I think it's fair that the club charge dues. Even if it were an all volunteer club, it still has expenses. I'm OK with the forum having a members only section too, members should see some benefit. I do think the dues are too high, particularly now that I know where a lot of the money is going. I'm not a member for a couple reasons. Like ohlarikd, outside of the forum, I would get virtually zero benefits from it. Both my "local" clubs are out of state, I don't go to events(no vacation days), I don't typically wear branded cloths, and I'm not the sticker type. The only real attraction are the raffles, and from reading elsewhere, this years may not even be a legal raffle(no raffle license). I'm also, by forum standards anyway, poor(lower middle class anyway). I work hard to earn my money. I skimp and save where ever I can. While it may seem like pocket change to some, $115 is not nothing to me. While it's well within my budget, I know I can make better use of the money elsewhere. For example, I have PB&J sandwiches for lunch every work day at the cost of about $.50. The $115 membership fee will literally buy my lunch for an entire year. Even though I'm not a VCA member, I'd like to think I've contributed positively to the forum. I had considered joining, but especially now seeing how the funds are spent, I'll probably never join.

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

Mopar Steve is very correct as mentioned above, and the VOI alone is worth the small yearly fee.

 

[hou99gts]

Thread still open. No deletions. You are witnessing change in progress. There will be more in the upcoming days. Change is possible within the system. It just takes a bit of patience, politeness and persistence. Despite the emotion during the dust up, all of the parties really have more in common than they have apart. They all love the Viper and more than a few like driving in Mexico. Hopefully, cooler heads will soon prevail and we will move forward past the current bump.

Some people still here (and some that have been gone a long time) wanted change to occur for years without it happening (if change does indeed occur in the future). Most were patient and polite for some time, and no changes occurred. When that didn't work, they tried persistent, which got them one or all of the following: banned, suspended, moderated, and threatened both verbally and in writing. I appreciate you trying to move this forward, however, we shouldn't forget the past while doing so. Many people have been impacted in many ways during this time.

 

[ACRucrazy]

Mopar Steve is very correct as mentioned above, and the VOI alone is worth the small yearly fee.

I didn't get to go to the last one, so I don't know, but does it cost money to go to VOI? (above and beyond the small yearly fee)

 

[ACRucrazy]

It is said far too many times here "little to no benefits for the money" For a little over a hundred bucks (about $10 per month) here is some of what you get:


Just a few of the benefits of your membership:

* Carfax for only $10.00
* Nearly two Viper Club events a month in most regions
* Viper Magazine
* Separate forums for Members only
* Discounts with Viper Parts Of America
* Discounts with many of the other supporting Vendors
* Groovy membership card!
* Access to raffle cars
* Participation in Zone Rendezvous
* Viper Owners Invitational
* Voting privileges
* Access to club officers that will try to help you with Viper/Club problems
* Supporting the club that supports your favorite car.

All for ten bucks a month. Really? no value?

There is more I can't think of right now.

FYI, VCA raised the price of carfax to $20 and they are 2 issues behind on the Viper Magazine. From what others are saying the raffle this year may be illegal?

 

[MoparMap]

My decision to not pay a membership fee was a calculated one that I stand behind.
How am I supposed to get a solid ROI on a membership fee when:
1. I drive my Viper only a few months of the year, and therefore am limited to which regional events I can attend- this # is further restricted by regional weather (Massachusetts)
2. I don't have the time or resources to drop everything I am doing, even when planned in advance, and go cross country to the "bigger" meets, namely the VOI
3. Everything that one receives as a measurable, financial return from paying a membership fee falls into one of three categories: discounts received when spending additional money on goods from "supporting" vendors; the "eligibility" to spend more money on a raffle; or stuff I don't want/need/care about (stickers, t-shirts, magazines, liability insurance at meets I can't attend etc..)

That being said, I really have nothing to gain by paying a membership fee. For $100, I could buy a vanity plate, some minor DIY project parts for the Viper or a half decent bottle of wine. I would rather put my money towards any of those items than spend it on a club membership that I will never realize the full benefits of. As a side note, the lack of transparency scared me away from shipping my $100 in years ago, out of principal alone.

That all makes perfect sense to me frankly. If you're not getting what you want out of the membership or using it to its fullest then there's no reason to pay for it. The forums are still largely free. There is a ton of information on here anyone can get to relatively easily. I'm sort of in the same boat where I'm not sure I'll be able to attend any large event like VOI for a few years until I have some vacation built up at work.

I didn't even really know that any of this stuff was going on and I'm right in the heart of it. It's never really affected my interaction with the club and I don't really see that changing. I still hang out with the same people and have fun on the drives we do. If the club delivers on its promises to give me what I pay for with a membership I'm not sure I really care what goes on behind the scenes. If the membership fee got way out of hand and kept inflating (say $500 as a crazy example), I doubt I'd re-up because I don't think that's worth it unless it had some dang good perks. It's as simple as a cost to benefit ratio. Does my $125 or whatever it is buy me exactly $125 worth of goods and services? I highly doubt it, but neither does my local dealership. The difference there is that I feel like I'm getting enough out of my money with a membership, I don't think I'm getting my money's worth when my local dealer jacks up their Viper parts 100%+ over MSRP because they never sell them, so I refuse to give them my business. There's some tipping point for everyone where they feel that they aren't getting what they want out of their money. For $10 a month I don't have a problem with the perks I get, but if those perks go away or the price goes up I'll rethink it.

The one thing that worries me would be if Chrysler pulled any support for the club. It's awesome to have an in with the manufacturer and to be able to see some of the cool stuff that the club has gotten to over the past (I only wish I was there to have seen it, lol). However, if the manufactuer and the club don't get along, there will always be some odd tension at events. For instance, I'm going to the ALMS race in Austin, but I'm not really sure what to expect. It's awesome that I'll get to be a part of the SRT car corral (hopefully), but I'm not really sure what the feeling in the air will be like. I have a nagging feeling that I'll get a bit of a cold shoulder with the way things are at the moment. Whatever happens, I just hope the club and SRT can patch things up and see eye to eye.

 

[kverges]

Wow I did not know about all this drama. I will say that once a club's management starts being paid for services or anything else from club revenues, motives can change. It appears that the manufacturer of our cars is upset enough to write a very unpleasant letter and if VCA wants the letter to remain confidential that looks bad to me as well. I really don't want to know all the details, but I do think the membership should be entitled to know all the details if they like.

 

[Nitro187]

From what others are saying the raffle this year may be illegal?

Illegal? How?

 

[ACRucrazy]

From what others are saying it's not licensed?

 

[swexlin]

Deleted post

 

[dru282]

I agree with Steve the price of membership is not the problem. The problem is what you become a member of. This thread speaks volumes to that point.

 

[ACRucrazy]

New

http://jalopnik.com/here-are-the-emails-we-received-after-our-viper-club-ar-1208249814

New

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/08/27/chrysler-at-war-with-worlds-largest-viper-club/#aol-comments

 

[kratedisease]

It is said far too many times here "little to no benefits for the money" For a little over a hundred bucks (about $10 per month) here is some of what you get:


Just a few of the benefits of your membership:

* Carfax for only $10.00
* Nearly two Viper Club events a month in most regions
* Viper Magazine
* Separate forums for Members only
* Discounts with Viper Parts Of America
* Discounts with many of the other supporting Vendors
* Groovy membership card!
* Access to raffle cars
* Participation in Zone Rendezvous
* Viper Owners Invitational
* Voting privileges
* Access to club officers that will try to help you with Viper/Club problems
* Supporting the club that supports your favorite car.

All for ten bucks a month. Really? no value?

There is more I can't think of right now.

You forgot to mention the extremely valuable 10 Million Dollar accidental life insurance policy that covers death in the case where your Viper catches fire under water with you inside but only if it is in a private pool behind some ones abandoned house where the pool must be at least 50 feet deep and must be filled with salt water , and you die from dismemberment of your limbs and not from drowning and the accident must occur on the 29th of February only.

 

[Bobpantax]

Chrysler is not at war with the VCA. What a ridiculous title. The VCA is an atom on a dust particle on the end of an elephant's tail compared to the Chrysler Enterprise. The Chrysler letter expressed a specific concern about two issues. One was that there was an appearance of a conflict of interest of a specific nature that needed to be eliminated. To my knowledge, that is in process. The second thing mentioned was some "peculiar behavior". I think that was probably a vailed reference to letters that were written to Chrysler by members from both factions attacking one peron or another either inside Chrysler or outside Chrysler.

To me, it is obvious to see that Chrysler must be pretty fed up with all of the recent drama queen activity ( additional pecular behavior) with people running to the press and saying awful things about the VCA. It is this recent, public out pouring of resentment, hate and viciousness that, if anyhting, will cause Chrysler to distance itself from the VCA. Why? Why not? What enterprise would want to continue its relationship with such a dysfunctional group which has no regard for reputational or image issues? Both sides of this controversy need to get together and stop the nonsense. The JonB issue, which is the cancer that probably started a good part of the "peculiar behavior" needs to be resolved. The conflict issue should continue to be resolved ASAP. As we can all see, the forum censorship issue has been addressed as evidenced by the existence of this thread and others including the Members only thread. We all need to come together; stop any disparagement; and restore peace. If we do not, I fear that Chrysler will just wag its tail and the wind will blow the dust particle and the atom that is on it that we know as te VCA off into the air.

 

[ACRucrazy]

Stop with the whole "censorship issue has been addressed as evidenced by the existence of this thread and others" BS. Just because a few threads have not been removed in 24 hrs does not mean all is well. All it means is the cat is out of the bag and they can't stop it now.

 

[Red Snake]

I have never had an issue with you before Bobpantax but your head is clearly in the sand on this one. There WAY more to this than you outline in your post above.

Just out of curiosity, are you considering a run for VCA office?

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

I didn't get to go to the last one, so I don't know, but does it cost money to go to VOI? (above and beyond the small yearly fee)

For those Viper owners on a budget which seems the standard for many lately compared to years ago, yes it involves using your credit card or cash a few times during the event but well worth it compared to waxing or keeping it in the garage. The next one hopefully will be next year. Try one, they are addictive.

 

[ACRucrazy]

I guess my question was did you have to pay a fee to attend? Not for food, fuel, lodging etc.

 

[chesapeake07]

I guess my question was did you have to pay a fee to attend? Not for food, fuel, lodging etc.

Yes, there is a fee and the fee is over and above all travel and lodging. $775 per person I believe...

 

[ACRucrazy]

Yes, there is a fee and the fee is over and above all travel and lodging. $775 per person I believe...

Thank you, that was what I was trying to get at.

 

[Bobpantax]

No. I have zero interest in running for office. I do have an interest in seeing civility and peace retored to the VCA. There seem to be quite a few people who do not appreciate the reality of the difference between a car club and a giant public company enterprise. The interest of that enterprise is to produce and sell cars. The current behavior being vented to the press like vomit from a drunk outside a bar during fleet week in a Navy port city is of absolutely no benefit to anyone except to make the person venting feel a bit powerful for a few moments and to produce hits on the websites. This is a VCA internal matter that should be settled by the National and Regional leadership and settled soon. It really is no one else's business. Both factions of the leadership need to put their own interests aside and put the needs of the VCA first.

I have never had an issue with you before Bobpantax but your head is clearly in the sand on this one. There WAY more to this than you outline in your post above.

Just out of curiosity, are you considering a run for VCA office?

 

[chesapeake07]

Thank you, that was what I was trying to get at.

You, sir, are most welcome!

 

[TowDawg]

The $150/year dues means absolutely nothing. Unfortunately, not re-upping memberships is the only voice or power we have.
As for the "drama queens" being the reason Chrysler/SRT might pull away from the VCA. Your head really is somewhere on this subject. There's a REASON that this many people are speaking out now. It's the first time that anyone who only visits the VCA board has had any inkling of some of these issues. If you'll notice, it is NOT the same old "tin foiled hat guys" speaking out now. It's finally getting out in the open.

 

[ipetrov]

The current behavior being vented to the press like vomit from a drunk outside a bar during fleet week in a Navy port city is of absolutely no benefit to anyone except to make the person venting feel a bit powerful for a few moments and to produce hits on the websites.

And in a prior post in this same thread you said: "Thread still open. No deletions. You are witnessing change in progress. There will be more in the upcoming days. Change is possible within the system."

So which one is it? Is the recent public brouhaha "of absolutely no benefit to anyone" or is it helping us witness "change in progress"? Help me understand your position.

 

[Bobpantax]

Read the Chrysler letter again. They do not like peculiar behavior. Put yourself in Chrysler's place. What could possibly be appealing about all of the emails, etc, that have recently been made public after the letter which specifically mentioned "peculiar behavior"? If Chrysler was concerned about "peculiar behavior" before the letter, based on there no comment policy in response to the recent articles, they must be even more upset now. Any competent public company executive would be and he or she would want to get away from the din unless the din stopped. This is pretty basic stuff. Even for drama queens.

The $150/year dues means absolutely nothing. Unfortunately, not re-upping memberships is the only voice or power we have.
As for the "drama queens" being the reason Chrysler/SRT might pull away from the VCA. Your head really is somewhere on this subject. There's a REASON that this many people are speaking out now. It's the first time that anyone who only visits the VCA board has had any inkling of some of these issues. If you'll notice, it is NOT the same old "tin foiled hat guys" speaking out now. It's finally getting out in the open.

 

[Bobpantax]

It is both. Change is coming. But the running to the press needs to stop. It is not helping. There are two basic goals. One is to solve some VCA problems - all of which are solvable and none of which are difficult problems to solve. The other is to do it fast enough so that it is done before Chrysler's patience runs out. There are some capable people in our leadership in both factions. Like I said above, they need to put their own personal issues aside; come together; and do what is best for the club. What is best is to solve the problems fast and move on to car related issues.

And in a prior post in this same thread you said: "Thread still open. No deletions. You are witnessing change in progress. There will be more in the upcoming days. Change is possible within the system."

So which one is it? Is the recent public brouhaha "of absolutely no benefit to anyone" or is it helping us witness "change in progress"? Help me understand your position.