Rumors...what's the dealio?

[johniew398]

Wow. I'm just reading all this plus the letter from Chrysler. It appears mismanagement is going to kill the VCA.

Who are all the officers and what are they doing to fix all this? I'm like others on here, after reading about all this BS I will be hard pressed to want to renew my Venom membership next year.

 

[gb66gth]

I consider $100-$150 for a membership cheap and worth it. Hell, that's two tanks of gas!

Keith Verges' comments (below) also have some validity. Transparency is the key to trust and without trust I would'nt give anyone a dime!

I will say that once a club's management starts being paid for services or anything else from club revenues, motives can change. It appears that the manufacturer of our cars is upset enough to write a very unpleasant letter and if VCA wants the letter to remain confidential that looks bad to me as well. I really don't want to know all the details, but I do think the membership should be entitled to know all the details if they like.

 

[dru282]

Bob am I reading you right. do you believe threads like this is part of the problem? I think to most on this thread the problems are what caused this thread. We are just finally able to voice our opinions and thoughts. Most have tried other more suttle venues to no avail. This is what happens when things get out of control with no recourse.

 

[virginiavenom]

Read the Chrysler letter again. They do not like peculiar behavior. Put yourself in Chrysler's place. What could possibly be appealing about all of the emails, etc, that have recently been made public after the letter which specifically mentioned "peculiar behavior"? If Chrysler was concerned about "peculiar behavior" before the letter, based on there no comment policy in response to the recent articles, they must be even more upset now. Any competent public company executive would be and he or she would want to get away from the din unless the din stopped. This is pretty basic stuff. Even for drama queens.

this man loves the koolaid. Sorry Bob. I'm not buying any of the damage control you are attempting to do. Lee and the Marshalls should be completely removed from club business, in fact, I would say the entire group of leadership should be removed, simply because they did not even attempt to remove the current tyrants.

 

[ROCKET62]

Bob, had it not been for the "drama queens" - your words not mine - there would be no change. None of the "change is coming" you talk about would have been possible had this not been elevated to Chrysler and/or the press. Any time someone questioned some of the decisions, asked for financials, asked any question that rubbed any of the board members even remotely the wrong way - those members were accused of being a henchman for someone else, banned, sanctioned, threatened with suspensions, and had posts censored or removed. After reaching a level of frustration that their voices were falling on deaf ears, the only way these members could "vote" their opinion was to not rejoin - as I chose to do.

I also find your assertion that some people do not understand the difference between a car club and a big business interesting. Is it really that bad to ask for transparency in a non-profit "car club"? Also find your "vomit from a drunk" analogy interesting based on what has been described about a call that happened recently .

 

[Bobpantax]

No. Threads like this are fine and part of the solution. Leaking internal emails and documents to the press and using reckless, lynch mob like wording is part of the problem. There are public disagreements on car club forums all the time. That's just part of the car person world. The media could care less. This was willfully brought to the attention of certain net media outlets and the story was clearly pimped to them by somebody. Reporters use sources and talk to their sources. I hope that person or persons is happy with himself and/or herself. They did nothing but hurt the VCA.

Bob am I reading you right. do you believe threads like this is part of the problem? I think to most on this thread the problems are what caused this thread. We are just finally able to voice our opinions and thoughts. Most have tried other more suttle venues to no avail. This is what happens when things get out of control with no recourse.

 

[Red Snake]

No. I have zero interest in running for office. I do have an interest in seeing civility and peace retored to the VCA. There seem to be quite a few people who do not appreciate the reality of the difference between a car club and a giant public company enterprise. The interest of that enterprise is to produce and sell cars. The current behavior being vented to the press like vomit from a drunk outside a bar during fleet week in a Navy port city is of absolutely no benefit to anyone except to make the person venting feel a bit powerful for a few moments and to produce hits on the websites. This is a VCA internal matter that should be settled by the National and Regional leadership and settled soon. It really is no one else's business. Both factions of the leadership need to put their own interests aside and put the needs of the VCA first.

This is where you are wrong.

There are many former members who left because of questionable "inside" practices after paying dues for many years. It is just as much "their business" as it is yours. It clearly CANNOT be handled " in house". In house handling is what got the club where it is right now (in a $hitstorm, in case you havent noticed).

 

[Bobpantax]

The changes were going to occur because of the meetings with Chrysler and the Chrysler letter anyway without all of the BS and viciousness that ensued after its release to the public. All of the rest was just self indulgent.

Bob, had it not been for the "drama queens" - your words not mine - there would be no change. None of the "change is coming" you talk about would have been possible had this not been elevated to Chrysler and/or the press. Any time someone questioned some of the decisions, asked for financials, asked any question that rubbed any of the board members even remotely the wrong way - those members were accused of being a henchman for someone else, banned, sanctioned, threatened with suspensions, and had posts censored or removed. I also find your assertion that some people do not understand the difference between a car club and a big business interesting. Is it really that bad to ask for transparency in a non-profit "car club"? Also find your "vomit from a drunk" analogy interesting based on what has been described about a call that happened recently .

 

[troublemaker]

It amazes me that a mis-sent letter is what has opened everyone's eyes. All you needed to do was frequent some other Viper sites to know what was going on. While I admit, nobody had the details, it was more than apparent that things were a mess. You would never know it here, but to find the bread and butter members that know more about the car than how many $15,000 paint jobs were ordered, you more often than not had to visit other sites. The censorship of the site was its own undoing, it was the first sign of something wrong, something was being hidden.

The car has evolved, the buyer has evolved, the members have evolved, maybe for the better, maybe for the worse, maybe I missed the boat becoming a member so far into the decline of the club. But I think the entire thing can be saved, but I don't think those that have the power to save it will do anything to change what has happened, as the can of worms would only be opened further. We will never know everything that went on even if a resolution is found, the real problem lies within those that call the shots, so I don't think the club has a future unless a major house cleaning is done.

As far as who got paid what, I really have no interest in the financials or the politics. I am here for the car, everything else is just background noise to me. The people that want to change the politics of the club, please have at it, just learn from the mistakes of the last decade of this club and try not to duplicate them.

Bobpantax, I agree with you on quite a few of your thoughts here, not all but more than a few. One thing I do not agree on is that this thread is still alive because change is already starting. This thread is still hear because deleting it would only reinforce most of the points that are being made. They can't stop this by just muting threads on their own site, this is everywhere right now. Damage control is what has taken over, it's why every move has to be scrutinized carefully. No moves at this point means no more mistakes, which is pretty much what we are seeing. Bob, you seem like a good guy that can see through BS, which I believe any competent attorney should excel at. But maybe this is where we will agree to disagree, I believe this can only be fixed with an aggressive approach, not lynch mob type, but aggressive all the same.

 

[Bobpantax]

Some people like to try to solve problems and move forward. Some people do not. I have friends on both sides of the issues. I want peace between the factions and favorable change for the club. The JonB issue must be addressed and addressed quickly. The censorship must end except for cuss words and blatant, disrespectful personal attacks. The appearance of any conflicts of interest must be eliminated ASAP. Financial data, to the extent it is available and is not too expensive to reformat, should be availabe to members under the members only section. All of these things are not difficult to accomplish if the leadership will just put their own, personal agendas aside and get the job done. Then we can all move forward.

this man loves the koolaid. Sorry Bob. I'm not buying any of the damage control you are attempting to do. Lee and the Marshalls should be completely removed from club business, in fact, I would say the entire group of leadership should be removed, simply because they did not even attempt to remove the current tyrants.

 

[virginiavenom]

Some people like to try to solve problems and move forward. Some people do not. I have friends on both sides of the issues. I want peace between the factions and favorable change for the club. The JonB issue must be addressed and addressed quickly. The censorship must end except for cuss words and blatant, disrespectful personal attacks. The appearance of any conflicts of interest must be eliminated ASAP. Financial data, to the extent it is available and is not too expensive to reformat, should be availabe to members under the members only section. All of these things are not difficult to accomplish if the leadership will just put their own, personal agendas aside and get the job done. Then we can all move forward.

you mean if everyone stops accepting their big fat paychecks right? cause that would be found very quickly if the financials were made "available". I'd be willing to bet the clubs overall "intake" is more than double what we can find. it's just what's been reported. damn I need to start a for-profit car club.

 

[BlackSnake99]

I consider $100-$150 for a membership cheap and worth it. Hell, that's two tanks of gas!

To all those who keep saying 'it's not that much money/it's worth it' or some variant thereof:


It's not the amount of money or the value one gets from membership. You are correct. It's worth it to me to join but I REFUSE to hand one cent over to an organization that is potentially misusing funds. It's not the money, it is the principles of the thing.


Carry on.

 

[dru282]

Bob your last comment I couldn't agree with more. I am glad to hear it. This is after all about a car we all love or we wouldn't be here. But we need a venue that is as good and honest as the car we love. And unfortunately when this kind of money is involved oversight in the fullest is a must.

 

[TowDawg]

Bob, your last post is the first reasonable thing you've said on this topic.
"The letter" is not what caused the problems though. The problems have been ongoing and "the letter" getting out is the only thing that has changed that. Even once it was leaked, anything mentioning it on this site was immediately deleted. ONLY after it truly went viral, are these discussions being allowed to take place.
I do find it telling though that you're the only one here backing the officers. Where are they? Maybe they're actually beginning to answer some questions in the members section, but I know we'll never get the whole story unless more from that inner circle continue to spill on the others in a attempt to distance themselves.
I would love for the VCA to make it through this reform and become a great club again, but there is ZERO trust in just about anything that these officers say due to the outright lies that have been fed to the general members in the past. I will gladly re-join the VCA, but not until major changes are made and new leaders are in place.

 

[Bobpantax]

You need to read my posts more carefully. I am not backing anyone. I am backing the VCA. There are people in place on the National, Zone and Regional levels many of whom are very capable people who can solve these problems. Who else is going to solve them? Outside people who know nothing about anything? Experinence and knowledge do matter. It just needs to be refocused toward problem solving instead of divisiveness.

Bob, your last post is the first reasonable thing you've said on this topic.
"The letter" is not what caused the problems though. The problems have been ongoing and "the letter" getting out is the only thing that has changed that. Even once it was leaked, anything mentioning it on this site was immediately deleted. ONLY after it truly went viral, are these discussions being allowed to take place.
I do find it telling though that you're the only one here backing the officers. Where are they? Maybe they're actually beginning to answer some questions in the members section, but I know we'll never get the whole story unless more from that inner circle continue to spill on the others in a attempt to distance themselves.
I would love for the VCA to make it through this reform and become a great club again, but there is ZERO trust in just about anything that these officers say due to the outright lies that have been fed to the general members in the past. I will gladly re-join the VCA, but not until major changes are made and new leaders are in place.

 

[LifeIsGood]

Some people like to try to solve problems and move forward. Some people do not. I have friends on both sides of the issues. I want peace between the factions and favorable change for the club. The JonB issue must be addressed and addressed quickly. The censorship must end except for cuss words and blatant, disrespectful personal attacks. The appearance of any conflicts of interest must be eliminated ASAP. Financial data, to the extent it is available and is not too expensive to reformat, should be availabe to members under the members only section. All of these things are not difficult to accomplish if the leadership will just put their own, personal agendas aside and get the job done. Then we can all move forward.

You're finally making some sense. You know these items that you mention have been going on for at least 2 years. A lot of the members and non-members have been fighting the good fight for a long damn time. We are finally making strides. That's why we're so excited and overboard in these few threads that are FINALLY allowed to stay open. Surely you can understand our excitement. We don't want to calm down...we want to continue this grass roots fight. If we calm down the issue will disappear like they all do and members will continue to become non-members. It's been happening for years now. It's finally coming to a head Bob...let us enjoy it!

 

[ferraritoviper]

Haven't read a good mutiny since the Bounty! I went over the to 'dark side', where they have 42 pages and counting on the subject.

 

[ACRucrazy]

Haven't read a good mutiny since the Bounty! I went over the to 'dark side', where they have 42 pages and counting on the subject.

And 28,000 views.

 

[LifeIsGood]

Hey Bob...I just read this...any truth to it?

Back when the VOI was held in Utah and the G5 prototype was revealed to all that attended Bob was unable to attend. He began asking National officers and people who were friends with Ralph if he could sign a non disclosure agreement and be allowed to see the pics/rendering/drawings. Chris Marshall made this happen for him and he's been a ***hugger ever since.

 

[Bobpantax]

LMAO. I can't answer you because the data is subject to a non disclosure agreement. But I did enjoy beta testing the super secret supercharged Drag Pak Gen V while you guys were in Utah.

Hey Bob...I just read this...any truth to it?

 

[Bobpantax]

The issues would not have disappeared because the commitments to Chrysler to change things were made before the letter was leaked.

You're finally making some sense. You know these items that you mention have been going on for at least 2 years. A lot of the members and non-members have been fighting the good fight for a long damn time. We are finally making strides. That's why we're so excited and overboard in these few threads that are FINALLY allowed to stay open. Surely you can understand our excitement. We don't want to calm down...we want to continue this grass roots fight. If we calm down the issue will disappear like they all do and members will continue to become non-members. It's been happening for years now. It's finally coming to a head Bob...let us enjoy it!

 

[LifeIsGood]

Ha...you're killin' me.

 

[GTLaser]

Bob your last comment I couldn't agree with more. I am glad to hear it. This is after all about a car we all love or we wouldn't be here. But we need a venue that is as good and honest as the car we love. And unfortunately when this kind of money is involved oversight in the fullest is a must.

Hey Dru! We haven't met yet but I know you recently joined our Region, being so there isn't much for you to compare with but when I joined a few years ago a lot has gone down hill and a lot of local Viper guys are not involved in the club anymore which is a shame. The money spent is not an issue at all but like BlackSnake states it's about value and the value is not in our region. 90% of our region does food events and 10% car related events, it should be the opposite and I have tried for the few years I've been here to get the ball rolling but since I'm not an official officer nothing can be set in stone. I am still a member of the BMWCCA because they have the 90% car related events and allow me to bring my Viper to their tech days to work on my car and even the techs there love to help me out! Even met the President of the Porsche CCA and he has offered to have me attend their track days as well, that's away to get new members. Last year my Viper was getting exhaust work done so I brought my Range Rover to the Crab Feast and was given Sh*t as well!!!! Puts a sour taste in your mouth. I've even taken time out of my busy day to do stuff for our region and went things went south because of disorganization from members and failed payments, I didn't receive the help that I would expect from someone in a leadership position (two of them, one of them National)....

 

[SingleMalt]

Does anyone have any honest figures on how many people have joined this year compared to 2 years ago? I am fairly sure VCA wouldn't want to let it out that they are missing many of the previous club members. No Venom membership for me like I had the past several years.

At this point, it doesn't matter how many paying members there are. Their for-profit "VPA" is raking in the money by leveraging the CLUB'S relationship with Chrysler.

Fair?

 

[Moundir]

Hey Bob...I just read this...any truth to it?

Makes perfect sense! Either that, or bob is the lawyer that the current regime have on retainer and is here spinning the obviously blinding truth! Gotta admit, you are pretty good bob. Regardless, I think you have dominated this thread and the other one in the members only enough. You gave your opinion, now let others form their own. It's pretty telling what you are doing or trying to anyways!

 

[SingleMalt]

At this point, it doesn't matter how many paying members there are. Their for-profit "VPA" is raking in the money by leveraging the CLUB'S relationship with Chrysler.

Fair?

...and preditorily cutting other vendors out of advertising, posting, etc. so VPA can "earn" new customers.

 

[BlknBlu]

In this case, the weapons of mass destruction have been found.

the end is near

Bruce

 

[Free2go]

I checked out a Gen5 Viper the other day at my local dealership and was totally unimpressed. I posted my opinions ( which I considered contructive criticism) and they were never allowed. So I tried again....denied. Then I tried once again on a different day....denied yet again. What's the dealio on that?

 

[2003 Viper]

I checked out a Gen5 Viper the other day at my local dealership and was totally unimpressed. I posted my opinions ( which I considered contructive criticism) and they were never allowed. So I tried again....denied. Then I tried once again on a different day....denied yet again. What's the dealio on that?

I found these two in less than a min. They were not taken down.

http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/667914-The-new-SRT-Viper

http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/668126-The-new-Viper

 

[dru282]

GTLASER. I have had similiar thoughts and experiences. It seems it can be a culture that goes from top to bottom. Sent you a pm