SCCA T1 Any of you?
- Thread starter Chuck 98 RT/10
- Start date
PartsRack is proud to be a sponsor of the Cardiac Racing #28, 1998 GTS, racing SCCA T-1. Roger Stark won every race he entered in 2000.
Now, (again restricted) in 2001....he has won the 3 races he has entered. The Rose Cups this weekend found his toughest competion yet, using restrictors, from 2 national drivers in Z-06s........and a couple C-5s. But win he did..both races.
Undefeated in 2001.
Repeat after me: "BRAKES-You ARE The Weakest Link!"
Now, (again restricted) in 2001....he has won the 3 races he has entered. The Rose Cups this weekend found his toughest competion yet, using restrictors, from 2 national drivers in Z-06s........and a couple C-5s. But win he did..both races.
Undefeated in 2001.
Repeat after me: "BRAKES-You ARE The Weakest Link!"
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
Hey JonB, would my Stoptechs disqualify me for T1???
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck 98 RT/10:
Hey JonB, would my Stoptechs disqualify me for T1 ?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes. And so would a lot of your other stuff!
Roger is a 101% straight-arrow, but there are lots of ways to cheat that a tech inspector would likely never catch. And there are a few ways to legally improve the Non-ACR Viper w/ ACR parts....and legally improve OEM parts. Very few after-market parts are allowed. ie BRAKE PADS /ducts / safety ...
I have really liked working with Cardiac Racing to get his car on TOP of every podium. He even offered me a blast of champagne this weekend.....but I was pace-car driving ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ : (<~
Hey JonB, would my Stoptechs disqualify me for T1 ?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes. And so would a lot of your other stuff!
Roger is a 101% straight-arrow, but there are lots of ways to cheat that a tech inspector would likely never catch. And there are a few ways to legally improve the Non-ACR Viper w/ ACR parts....and legally improve OEM parts. Very few after-market parts are allowed. ie BRAKE PADS /ducts / safety ...
I have really liked working with Cardiac Racing to get his car on TOP of every podium. He even offered me a blast of champagne this weekend.....but I was pace-car driving ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ : (<~
Bobby Archer has done very well in Texas this year, and not only looks to win his region, but so far I believe he has won every race. Deb Loth, also from the Ft. Worth area, has done very well on a Regional level, and has trophied 2-3 times. Up in the New England area Morgan Reese is campaigning a new ACR, but I haven't heard how he has done. He looked really strong at the Mid-Ohio Viper Days, and the car was barely sorted at that time. I can provide numbers to these folks if you plan to run T1 and want some advice, as I am sure any of them would be happy to assist.
HogWhisperer
Enthusiast
Interesting read. I guess they'll do the same thing in SCCA T-1 as they did in World Challenge. Penalize the Viper 'til it's not competitive.
Until then, ROCK ON Bobby and all the other SCCA T-1 Vipers!
Until then, ROCK ON Bobby and all the other SCCA T-1 Vipers!
Mike H
Enthusiast
The Vette boys are constantly whinning on the SCCa board to the point they did get the ACR REEESTRICTORS on....great to hear we are still kickin butt ....wonder what the next restriction will be?
kverges
Enthusiast
In defense of the restrictions, I race SCCA (in a a lowly regional class) and the idea of all rules in a given class is to even things out. There is no doubt in anyone's mind that a Viper is faster than a C5 (unless they are rabid Vettophiles). That said, I can safely say that I would get zero satisfaction out of piloting a vastly superior car to a win over clearly inferior cars.
If possible, racing is supposed to be about the drivers more than the cars. Perhaps more importantly, if you want competitors to come to the races, they need a legitimate chance to win. And so the Viper will wear restrictors and ballast to slow it down and "create" a close race with C5s. So what? I would relish the challenge, provided that the restrictions did not whipsaw to the point where I could not win.
Only a ***** who knows zero about racing would say that a C5 win in those circumstances shows its superiority to a Viper. In fact, most racing demonstrates nothing at all about the relative merits of the street cars doing battle, and this debate about the "poor" Viper drivers having to use restrictors is silly. Almost as pointless as saying that Winston Cup racing improves the breed of the Taurus & Intrepid.
Gentlemen, start you flamethrowers!
If possible, racing is supposed to be about the drivers more than the cars. Perhaps more importantly, if you want competitors to come to the races, they need a legitimate chance to win. And so the Viper will wear restrictors and ballast to slow it down and "create" a close race with C5s. So what? I would relish the challenge, provided that the restrictions did not whipsaw to the point where I could not win.
Only a ***** who knows zero about racing would say that a C5 win in those circumstances shows its superiority to a Viper. In fact, most racing demonstrates nothing at all about the relative merits of the street cars doing battle, and this debate about the "poor" Viper drivers having to use restrictors is silly. Almost as pointless as saying that Winston Cup racing improves the breed of the Taurus & Intrepid.
Gentlemen, start you flamethrowers!
HogWhisperer
Enthusiast
Keith, if you want things to be perfectly matched where the car does not matter at all but rather it is ALL driver, compete in the SPEC class, that's what that is all about.
What about the guys racing T-1 who are in Z28's and TranAm's? I guess this means the SCCA should penalize the rest of the cars including Vetts and Vipers down to their level? I think not. The car DOES matter.
In T-1, to some extent, it IS about the cars. Factory stock does not mean factory stock plus 300 lbs. plus 55mm air inlet restrictors.
If they do like they did in WCGT, they'll penalize the Viper right out of the competition. There are Vipers out there now that are being beat by Vetts. Not Bobby Archer though. Why is that? Because he can drive the wheels off that car. Just because he and Freddy Baker can, does not mean EVERYONE can.
Instead of whinning, maybe the Vett boys should consider getting a Viper.
What about the guys racing T-1 who are in Z28's and TranAm's? I guess this means the SCCA should penalize the rest of the cars including Vetts and Vipers down to their level? I think not. The car DOES matter.
In T-1, to some extent, it IS about the cars. Factory stock does not mean factory stock plus 300 lbs. plus 55mm air inlet restrictors.
If they do like they did in WCGT, they'll penalize the Viper right out of the competition. There are Vipers out there now that are being beat by Vetts. Not Bobby Archer though. Why is that? Because he can drive the wheels off that car. Just because he and Freddy Baker can, does not mean EVERYONE can.
Instead of whinning, maybe the Vett boys should consider getting a Viper.
kverges
Enthusiast
Sorry, Paul, we just disagree.
Spec class is the ultimate extreme and what I run, as I don't want to mess excessively with car development, but how are you going to get T1 races going if Vipers aren't slowed down? The Vette guys just won't come at all and then you will have 2 cars in the race. Boring.
Very, very few people can afford to race Vipers - I sure can't with factory hoods going for $15K. I am not saying strangle the Vipers, but the Viper is a vastly faster car than a C5 and in order to achieve parity the Viper must be slowed down. I don't know about you, but I'd rather watch a Bobby Archer overcome adversity with driving skill than just drive off into the sunset, leaving a small field of lesser cars behind.
And, last I checked, F-Bodies run T2, unless they are heavily modified, in which case they could end up in T1. So no I don't advocate slowing everyone to the lowest common denominator.
FWIW
Spec class is the ultimate extreme and what I run, as I don't want to mess excessively with car development, but how are you going to get T1 races going if Vipers aren't slowed down? The Vette guys just won't come at all and then you will have 2 cars in the race. Boring.
Very, very few people can afford to race Vipers - I sure can't with factory hoods going for $15K. I am not saying strangle the Vipers, but the Viper is a vastly faster car than a C5 and in order to achieve parity the Viper must be slowed down. I don't know about you, but I'd rather watch a Bobby Archer overcome adversity with driving skill than just drive off into the sunset, leaving a small field of lesser cars behind.
And, last I checked, F-Bodies run T2, unless they are heavily modified, in which case they could end up in T1. So no I don't advocate slowing everyone to the lowest common denominator.
FWIW
HogWhisperer
Enthusiast
Keith, I guess we do disagree. You need to take your Vette hat off and put on the Viper hat!
j/k
In my opinion, they take it to extremes when they start penalizing. Just because Bobby can 'plow'em down' with excellent driving skills doesn't mean all Viper drivers can do the same. BTW, at TWS last weekend, a ZO6 turned the fastest lap. If there was so much disparity, you'd think a Viper would have turned the fastest lap. Furthermore, there are several Vipers that are not winning. If the car was all that dominant, enough to where driver didn't mater much, I would think all Vipers would be winning. Incidentally, I believe Deb Loth, who is a good driver came in behind a ZO6 in the same race.
Honestly, when the SCCA started penalizing the Vipers in World Challenge, they really did penalize them out of the competition. Even with Bobby's excellent driving skills, he could not overcome the extreme advantage that the BMW's, Audi's, and Vette's had. I guess the Vette cry babies won't be happy until the SCCA does the same thing in T1.
BTW, there are several F-Bodies running T1. At least there were here in Abilene.
Ok, enough..... Back to work....
In my opinion, they take it to extremes when they start penalizing. Just because Bobby can 'plow'em down' with excellent driving skills doesn't mean all Viper drivers can do the same. BTW, at TWS last weekend, a ZO6 turned the fastest lap. If there was so much disparity, you'd think a Viper would have turned the fastest lap. Furthermore, there are several Vipers that are not winning. If the car was all that dominant, enough to where driver didn't mater much, I would think all Vipers would be winning. Incidentally, I believe Deb Loth, who is a good driver came in behind a ZO6 in the same race.
Honestly, when the SCCA started penalizing the Vipers in World Challenge, they really did penalize them out of the competition. Even with Bobby's excellent driving skills, he could not overcome the extreme advantage that the BMW's, Audi's, and Vette's had. I guess the Vette cry babies won't be happy until the SCCA does the same thing in T1.
BTW, there are several F-Bodies running T1. At least there were here in Abilene.
Ok, enough..... Back to work....
Mike H
Enthusiast
Paul.....I AGREE 100%!!!!.
Its funny that as long as the Vettes were on top with how much Hp and suspension difference over Trans Am, Camaro, and Mustangs you never did hear a word from them. Then Lo and behold the Viper comes along and every Vette guy wants ALL Vipers slowed down to their level....WHY? Why as you say isn't all cars brought down to the slowest Hp car in the class? By the time they are done the Vettes with GM backing to the SCCA will get their way and do the same to the Viper as in WC. If that is what they want then let the VETTEs go into a spec class all their own and let them all cry together!
Its funny that as long as the Vettes were on top with how much Hp and suspension difference over Trans Am, Camaro, and Mustangs you never did hear a word from them. Then Lo and behold the Viper comes along and every Vette guy wants ALL Vipers slowed down to their level....WHY? Why as you say isn't all cars brought down to the slowest Hp car in the class? By the time they are done the Vettes with GM backing to the SCCA will get their way and do the same to the Viper as in WC. If that is what they want then let the VETTEs go into a spec class all their own and let them all cry together!
Mike H,
Well said!
I propose a new class for Vettes ONLY:
Y-NER'S (AKA You're Not Even Racers/Racecars or Whiners)
There is a commom denominator between winners and whiners:
both begin with V (Viper and Vette respectively)!
IMHO
Well said!
I propose a new class for Vettes ONLY:
Y-NER'S (AKA You're Not Even Racers/Racecars or Whiners)
There is a commom denominator between winners and whiners:
both begin with V (Viper and Vette respectively)!
IMHO
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
You guys seem to know what you're talking about. Can you answer this for me... I have a 97GTS with 3inch catback, Stoptech fronts, Sean Roe Delrin bushings, John Purner's wheel setup 18X12 fronts 17X14 back and a Partsrack Wing. Am I going to have to remove all of this for T1???
Mike H
Enthusiast
I beleive the wing and brakes will have to go, must be stock setup...or this moves you into the ITE class...cat back is allowed....look up 99T1...as he is one of our team mates with an ACR in T-1....our 4 other Vipers are all in ITE...Morgan will let you know all that is T-1 allowed..
Rich Wesorick
Enthusiast
Better yet Chuck, if you really want a competitive T1 Viper, give Bobby Archer a call (817-877-1772) and arrange for him to prep the car for you. Every T1 car he has built (Jimmy Adams, his own, Deb Loth's come to mind) has set track records... There is no substitute for his experience with Vipers, both in the garage and on the track.
my 2 cents,
Rich
my 2 cents,
Rich
99t1
Enthusiast
3inch catback..stay
Stoptech fronts...go
Sean Roe Delrin bushings...go
John Purner's wheel setup 18X12 fronts 17X14 back...go
and a Partsrack Wing...fly away
I agree..let Archer set it up
Stoptech fronts...go
Sean Roe Delrin bushings...go
John Purner's wheel setup 18X12 fronts 17X14 back...go
and a Partsrack Wing...fly away
I agree..let Archer set it up
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