The smell sensor in my nose tripped a CEL in my brain: "Potential '05 srt issues"

[ipetrov]

The smell sensor in my nose tripped a CEL in my brain. ECU begs to differ...

I've had my car for more than a year and have gotten pretty used to the normal smells and other quirks of a lightly modified gen 3. Last couple of times I've laid more heavily into the throttle on the highway I've been greeted with a weird and unusual smell that's hard to describe other than that it gives me a headache pretty quickly. It's not the smell of dumped fuel, burned oil, or grilled mouse - it feels like some toxic chemical is being boiled under the hood. Seems to almost disappear under the same conditions with the top and windows up, AC on, probably because I get a lot less of the engine ambiance that way. Smell intensity seems proportional to throttle input.

Also noticed unusual heat particularly from the exhaust side of the interior, and worse performance (response lag + engine fighting my right foot a little bit at higher rpms). No CELs, gauges reading normal, a little bit of idle hang after hard accelerations. Pretty hot and damp weather too, which is probably at least partially responsible for these side effects.

I first thought it may be a clogging cat but while checking on my fluid levels accidentally sniffed the power steering fluid and could swear that's the exact same smell. The fluid's level also seemed a tad low in the reservoir, so I think I have my primary suspect. I think I may be a victim of the dreaded p/s system line leaks and/or pump failures. I've read a ton of threads on this common issue but didn't see anything about unusual smells prior to leaks/failures. Couldn't see any leaks under the car either, will be checking more often now.

I'll do some more due diligence on potential hose/fitting leaks but would appreciate any helpful tips on identifying my culprit. Thanks in advance!

 

[gb66gth]

melting/burning carpet glue?

 

[ipetrov]

^ Talk about best case scenario. I certainly hope that's the issue. What's the best way to verify, other than any obvious visual signs?

 

[dester243]

catalytic convert getting plugged up ? When they go bad it can smell like rotten eggs.

 

[Flexx91]

If your PS fluid level is low and the smell is burnt PS fluid, the next thing to do is find the source of the leak. A few of us who owned Gen I/II's still remember reading posts where a couple of cars that actually caught on fire due to loose PS reservoir caps.

 

[ipetrov]

catalytic convert getting plugged up ? When they go bad it can smell like rotten eggs.

That (in addition to the excessive heat and lackluster performance) is exactly why I first thought it may be a cat issue.

However, the smell is more like something burning than rotten eggs, plus I am 95% confident the p/s liquid in my car has the exact same smell...

 

[ipetrov]

If your PS fluid level is low and the smell is burnt PS fluid, the next thing to do is find the source of the leak. A few of us who owned Gen I/II's still remember reading posts where a couple of cars that actually caught on fire due to loose PS reservoir caps.

Jeez! Just when I was thinking I'm lucky (in a very weird way) that I don't own a Ferrari or a Lambo, you are telling me Vipers have burned down as well because of fluid leaks

Good to know, and pretty scary too.

 

[ViperGeorge]

Had a similar problem with my 06. Had a smell that was toxic. Mine got so bad that some smoke actually emerged from under dash. I happened to be at the track with a bunch of SRT engineers. They immediately diagnosed the problem as burning insulation from the foot wells due to over heated cats. They put a perometer on the cats and sure enough they were really hot. They had seen it before in fact one of them after thrashing a Gen 3 on the track had it catch fire as a result. Ended up changing cats and tune which fixed the problem. Don't ignore this, find out if it is an overheated cat or the PS fluid and fix it!

 

[slysnake]

Would a PS leak reduce performance? Really sounds like a cat.

 

[Flexx91]

Jeez! Just when I was thinking I'm lucky (in a very weird way) that I don't own a Ferrari or a Lambo, you are telling me Vipers have burned down as well because of fluid leaks

Good to know, and pretty scary too.

I don't believe any Gen. 3-5's but a couple of Gen. 2's.

 

[ipetrov]

I carefully checked the P/S fluid level on the stick and it was actually 1/3 inch above the cold line "C", so even though it looks low to the eye, it's probably at an acceptable level. It's amazing how much space there is on that stick between C and H (Hot line). No sign of leaks and I wonder if the reservoir cap is compromised.

What's the easiest way of checking if the cats are clogging? I know neither is bad to the point where there's no exhaust fume coming out of that pipe. I have high flow cats which were installed 2 owners ago - they look like Roe's and they are probably at least 4 years old. I know that high flow cats can clog too.

 

[ipetrov]

Would a PS leak reduce performance? Really sounds like a cat.

The p/s pump drives the cooling fan, so a depleting P/S fluid can lead to overheating and even engine damage. But I think you are right, there would be some pretty obvious signs like the temp gauges going crazy, which I didn't experience.

Looks like the cats are back to being my primary suspect.

 

[ViperGeorge]

My problem was due to a rich fuel mixture causing the cats to overheat. They weren't clogged per se. My car was supercharged though and had stock cats. Has your tune been changed?

 

[Sonoman]

Re: The smell sensor in my nose tripped a CEL in my brain. ECU begs to differ...

I've had my car for more than a year and have gotten pretty used to the normal smells and other quirks of a lightly modified gen 3. Last couple of times I've laid more heavily into the throttle on the highway I've been greeted with a weird and unusual smell that's hard to describe other than that it gives me a headache pretty quickly. It's not the smell of dumped fuel, burned oil, or grilled mouse - it feels like some toxic chemical is being boiled under the hood. Seems to almost disappear under the same conditions with the top and windows up, AC on, probably because I get a lot less of the engine ambiance that way. Smell intensity seems proportional to throttle input.

"Laid heavily into the throttle on the highway"... is the clutch slipping? This would cause a sickly burning smell (similar to cooking brakes) if the clutch is slipping in higher gears under heavy load.

 

[ipetrov]

My problem was due to a rich fuel mixture causing the cats to overheat. They weren't clogged per se. My car was supercharged though and had stock cats. Has your tune been changed?

Yes, the car has some SCT tune and is N/A. Also has high flow's, corsa, filters and 3.55 gears. I was thinking of changing the tune anyways. Thanks for the good tip!

The P/S system is either leaking or not, and that will be easy to find out on my own.

 

[ipetrov]

Re: The smell sensor in my nose tripped a CEL in my brain. ECU begs to differ...

"Laid heavily into the throttle on the highway"... is the clutch slipping? This would cause a sickly burning smell (similar to cooking brakes) if the clutch is slipping in higher gears under heavy load.

Thanks Sonoman! Never thought about that but it's definitely a possibility. It would also explain the laggier throttle feel. Any good way to establish whether that's the case before the clutch potentially fails?

 

[ViperGeorge]

Re: The smell sensor in my nose tripped a CEL in my brain. ECU begs to differ...

Thanks Sonoman! Never thought about that but it's definitely a possibility. It would also explain the laggier throttle feel. Any good way to establish whether that's the case before the clutch potentially fails?

I'd come back to the smell. Did it smell like burning cardboard? If yes, I would say clutch. Did the smell make your eyes water? Then I'd say melting insulation caused by overheated cats. Melting insulation smells like melting plastic. I think a clutch smells more like something burnt but not burnt plastic. I don't know what burning P/S fluid smells like.

 

[ipetrov]

Re: The smell sensor in my nose tripped a CEL in my brain. ECU begs to differ...

I'd come back to the smell. Did it smell like burning cardboard? If yes, I would say clutch. Did the smell make your eyes water? Then I'd say melting insulation caused by overheated cats. Melting insulation smells like melting plastic. I think a clutch smells more like something burnt but not burnt plastic. I don't know what burning P/S fluid smells like.

I agree, the smell is the key. I'd say it has a more chemical overtone than just burning cardboard or plastic - it's not as suffocating yet pretty unpleasant. Almost like that sickly hospital smell. No effect on my eyes or lungs, but a decent headache. It's like passing through a heavily industrialized zone. Originally I thought it may be just the area I'm passing through, but have recently become quite convinced that it's the car and not the area I typically get on the highway on. I'll do some more testing in the next couple of days.

On a lighter note, your question made me think about the inevitable invention of smell-sharing over the internet. Here's something called iSmell that made me chuckle:

http://www.howstuffworks.com/internet-odor1.htm

 

[datruodb]

My first thought was clutch. Ever smell a semi truck struggling to go up a large hill? That's the smell you are looking for.

 

[ipetrov]

Update: I did some more testing over the weekend and think that it boils down to fueling issues. The smell comes on and completely off as if triggered by an on/off switch - the gas pedal. First three gears are problem-free, except maybe toward the very upper end of third. Any significant throttle shove in fourth, especially during the first 15-20 minutes of driving, gives me the familiar nosefull of stench.

I think the car is running rich and I'm experiencing the smell of unburned fuel. This would explain the laggier performance under load, as well as the increased heat generation as the cats get too hot. I also noticed an unusual blackening spot of the red paint around the passenger exhaust tip that I can't clean out, so it's probably a burn mark.

Hence, my new (and hopefully last) primary suspect - a crack somewhere in the 8-year-old stock exhaust manifold, cheating the O2 sensors and causing an excessive amount of fuel to be dumped at higher loads. Will be inspecting spark plugs and exhaust manifolds next.

P/S fluid holds at a constant level and I haven't identified a single leak of anything, so I'm officially taking it off the black list for now.

 

[PeterMJ]

Update: I did some more testing over the weekend and think that it boils down to fueling issues. The smell comes on and completely off as if triggered by an on/off switch - the gas pedal. First three gears are problem-free, except maybe toward the very upper end of third. Any significant throttle shove in fourth, especially during the first 15-20 minutes of driving, gives me the familiar nosefull of stench.

I think the car is running rich and I'm experiencing the smell of unburned fuel. This would explain the laggier performance under load, as well as the increased heat generation as the cats get too hot. I also noticed an unusual blackening spot of the red paint around the passenger exhaust tip that I can't clean out, so it's probably a burn mark.

Hence, my new (and hopefully last) primary suspect - a crack somewhere in the 8-year-old stock exhaust manifold, cheating the O2 sensors and causing an excessive amount of fuel to be dumped at higher loads. Will be inspecting spark plugs and exhaust manifolds next.

P/S fluid holds at a constant level and I haven't identified a single leak of anything, so I'm officially taking it off the black list for now.

Running rich typically is caused by bad oxygen sensors or cold start sensors and valves or bad ignition components, doubtful your exhaust manifolds are the culprits. Start eliminating things that could be bad after running the diagnostics on the car. If you see the burn marks on the sills, your catalytic cats are most likely toast and will have to be tested to make sure they are not shot. Dealing with the cats would make sense only after you find the actual cause of rich condition. Cracked manifold should be audible when car is cold.

 

[ipetrov]

^ That makes a whole lot of sense, thanks. I have no audible symptoms of a manifold crack at idle/cold start, but was thinking it may be a small one. Plus I know it's a common issue on these cars. But you are right, I'd better start with the easier diagnostics first. I was thinking of freshening up my ignition (plugs and wires), as well as getting a new tune anyways.

However, I can see how a small crack in the exhaust can fool the PCM to not throw a code, while most of the other potential causes you mention would likely trigger a CEL, wouldn't they?

 

[PeterMJ]

^ That makes a whole lot of sense, thanks. I have no audible symptoms of a manifold crack at idle/cold start, but was thinking it may be a small one. Plus I know it's a common issue on these cars. But you are right, I'd better start with the easier diagnostics first. I was thinking of freshening up my ignition (plugs and wires), as well as getting a new tune anyways.

However, I can see how a small crack in the exhaust can fool the PCM to not throw a code, while most of the other potential causes you mention would likely trigger a CEL, wouldn't they?

I would pull the plugs and read them, if you indeed run very rich, I would fix the problem before you end up washing out the rings. I agree cracked manifold would not throw a code unless oxygen sensors foul up.

 

[Cannibal]

For what ever it's worth, I have a Gen II with a 510 stroker, makes good power. Had a VEC 2 to control the big top loader injectors. I experienced that smell (a hot eye watering metallic smell) after a hard run and found it was the cats burning the alum/insulation heat shields in my side sills. The system was going lean and really heating up the exhaust at high rpm's. Dumped the big injectors and the VEC2 and never had the smell or lean condition again. Something in my system didn't like the combination setup. I am using Random Tech 3" cats and stock injectors.

 

[ipetrov]

Thanks, Cannibal. I guess you found the issue by taking off the side sills and seeing melted up plastic? Did the smell stay in the car for a few minutes after you let off the gas, or did it immediately go away?

I wouldn't say that what I'm experiencing is eye-watering, but definitely somewhat metallic.

 

[Hirkophoto]

This may not be your problem but it's one more thing you can check out and it's easy to check. The wire harness in the passenger foot well gets cooked from the cats. I did an entire thread on this subject with photos.
http://socalviper.com/message-board/index.php?topic=1654.msg16770#msg16770
I also removed my side sill and found some of my insulation was touching the cat and was burnt because a screw that holds it up had fallen out.
It's worth checking these and it can save you some future problems.