Thinking of buying a comp coupe

[Mike Adams]

I am thinking of getting a comp coup what am I going to need to do to it to make sure it will pass tech or is everything done.

What do different series require be done to the Viper eg restrictor plates, weight etc.

I am thinking of pulling my son out of karts and put him in a car. Where should I start him racing this car ?

How long does it take to get one once you order it?

WOW I have allot of questions will wait for some responses and probably come up with more.

 

[Tom Francis]

Mike,

Give us a call and we can answer your questions for you. You may also go to our web site www.vipercompetitioncoupe.com all of the specifications and pricing is listed on there.

Tom Francis
Viper Race HQ
888-960-3333

 

[doctorbob]

I think one of my questions would be cost of operation of a comp coupe on a yearly basis. I think ( and I could be quite wrong although I asked a compe coupe owner) that expenses would run over $50,000 a year and more like 100,000. If you ball up the car well just reach for another 150,000.

 

[Mike Adams]

great question I would be interested in est cost of running just the viper series

 

[JoeB]

Mike,

It ain't cheap. As Skip would say " it's 5000.00 a weekend". And he is pretty close. The maintainence on the car seems inexpensive compared to just buying tires. 2 sets a weekend ($1300 a set) and about every 4th weekend with proper tire management you get a free weekends worth of tires. I don't recomend skimping on tires though. Going out to race on used up tires isn't worth the risk. Sliding into a tire wall could cost a hell of a lot more.
Of course you also need to figure in pads, which actually last a long time and rotors. Windshields can last a month, a year, a day, it all depends. My windshield is so pitted, it looks like it has a million bugs on it. Of course if I were out in front a little more, my windshield might not look as bad. Transmissions seem to not last a very long time, so figure at least one a year.

The thrill and adrenilen rush of racing is priceless, so the money is really secondary to me. You can e-mail me with any specifics.

Joe B

 

[Janni]

Low end - east coast races / Finals only - $50K. This includes things like tires, gas, event fees, maintenance, transportation, lodging, consummables such as brake pads, evolving safety equipment, alignments / service between evetns. NO DAMAGE.

Paying for transportation, race support, prep, etc. can easily top $100K. (Probably closer to what most folks are spending.) Multi car teams or real professional orgs have certainly spent 2X that in the past.

The Comp Coupe probably isn't any more expensive, or any cheaper to run - tires are tires, fees are fees, fluids are fluids. It does run on 93 octane gas, so that's cheaper, and it seems to be good on brake pads, so that's relatively cheap. Parts are expensive, but that's just par for the course running a Viper.

 

[Fast Viper Dan]

How dose that compare to running a race prepared GTS-GT1 car? I don't mean the cost to build, just to maintain.
Dan

 

[Janni]

I'd say they are the same. Slightly less wear items on a comp coupe - just because (if) it's new and less for gas as it runs 93 octane. But the majority of your expenses will be there for either car.

Here are the heavy hitters for us during a typical Viper Days weekend...

1. Tires. $1300. We go through one set. Some buy 2 sets / weekend.
2. Event fees. $1000 for 3 days.
3. Fuel. $250
4. Maintenance fluids $300
5. Travel - hotels, truck, diesel $1000.

Add in the rest of the stuff - food, parts you will inevitably have to buy, stuff to get ready to race in the first place..... and you're easily at $5K/race weekend.

And after you add in my SIGNIFICANT crew chief salary, no doubt we're spending more than most.

But overall, we're pretty economical since I don't bill for car prep by the hour - it takes a tremendous amount of time getting the car ready, prepped and safe. And the more you do, the more you want to do, i.e. doing you own alignment and set up work before each event, etc. It pretty easily grows into a time and money consumer.

Oh, and it's darn fun....

See you all at Brainerd!

 

[Sonny 00 GTS ACR]

Janni is right about the costs - kind of like anything to do with a Viper - "if you have to ask, you can't afford it" Safety is the main thing, but tires, lodging, food, and transportation add up pretty quickly. Luckily, it's worth every penny!

Glad you're going to Brainerd Janni - see you there!

 

[Fast Viper Dan]

Sonny,
I should have been more specific,
Have you found that the Race prepared GTS holds up well?
I am thinking of buying one. I am wondering about how much down time I will face. I have been told by some of the Viper Days Racers that these cars can be vary ******* front spindle assemblies. I don't mind doing the repairs. And the cost of parts is not the issue. I like to spend more time racing than repairing.
Is the CC that much more durable?
Janni,
I do run in the Viper Racing league when there out West. The expenses are about the same for me running my Panoz. The car holds up well. It's the HP I'm short on.
And yes it's a BLAST!
Have fun at Brainerd!

 

[Janni]

Dan,
We have only ourselves to work on the car. We have never missed a race due to mechanical issues. This is year 2.

We're running stock hubs - torqued to the new 300 ft-lb settings. We check them after every event, but have not been a problem (we do run the narrower front tire - 305 instead of 335). Marsh Racing (thorugh Archer Racing) has a rebuildable front hub for non-ABS cars (Sonny- correct me if I am wrong) that should allay your front hub concerns. Bought a tranny after ours finally died. New one should last longer, as we installed a cooler. Had the Quaiffe rebuilt. Same motor - only regular maintenance. Replaced a fuel pump. Most major systems have been very good. Brakes have been great.

I am continually impressed with how reliable the car is. Same for Comp Coupes. Not sure any one is any better than the other, only newer. Comp Coupes have had their issues- but most have been sorted out by now. Certainly all the weakenesses of the GTs's have been shown and solved. For GTS's, lots of parts can be picked up off street cars along the way, so building of spares is a little easier.

We decided to go with a GTS for a lower intial cost of entry and the fact that we got a killer spares package. May make hte move to a CC sometime, but don't think that the overall costs are going to go down just becasue we decide to run a CC.

 

[Tom Francis]

Dan,

My experience with the Comp Coupe has shown that there are some other aspects to consider:

a) The car is built to the exact same level as your competitors. They all have the same performance level and there is no question if you have "the good parts". Your chance of winning is dependent on driving and car setup.

b) We pride ourselves on the safety level of the Comp Coupe. We are frequently used as examples in Speed GT and rules are changing to copy our designs. Make sure to take this into consideration.

Whatever your decision, please feel free to contact us with any questions or concerns.

Tom Francis
Viper Race HQ
888-960-3333

 

[Frank Parise]

I prepared an analysis indicating a true economic operating cost of approximately $1,100 per hour for the Competition Coupe. This covers only the cost of parts & supplies for normal wear and tear, no labor. It does not cover crash damage, event fees, travel, lodging, etc. This only includes direct operating costs of the racecar once you push the "start button". The largest components of this hourly cost include tires @ $457/hr., scheduled engine rebuild @ $160/hr., brake pads @ $70/hour.

There is a difference between cash out of pocket versus true economic cost. The figure above is a full economic cost. As an example, you know it will cost $8,000 to rebuild your engine after 50 hours of use. Your actual cash out of pocket will be zero for the first 49 hours, then $8,000 for the 50th hour. I measure my expenses to be $160/hr for each of the 50 hours, regardless of the timing of cash payment.

You can do a fairly accurate analysis by taking the parts price list from Viper Headquarters and dividing each major component cost by the service life (in hours) recommended by Dodge in the service manual.

So, if you normally receive about 2 hours of track time per event, your direct operating cost for the racecar only will be approximately $2,200. For an entire VRL race weekend, I would think somewhere in the neighborhood of $7,000-$8,000 (true economic cost) would be average, and this assumes absolutely no crash damage. I didn't experience a significant difference between my GTS racecar and my Comp Coupe.

If you are really interested, I could e-mail you an excel spreadsheet file showing the details.

 

[Janni]

Frank - Bring on the accountants!

Thanks for confirming my suspicions about operating costs btw GTS/CC.

Will we be seeing you in Texas????

 

[FrankBarba]

For what its worth. MY 95 RT/10 which has been campaigned in Viper Days, VRL, SCCA, NASA. I chose not to go into the motor when VD's was starting out. (i think i made the right choice). I change fluids religously, Tranny is still strong, rear end is still in tact (3.07), hubs are changed every year, motor is still strong (390 hp rear wheels) shocks are checked, springs are checked. I have never missed a race due to a mechanical issue. As long as you take the time to prepare your Viper will last. My operating costs are likely lower than others since i only do local events within 1-5 hours of drive time.

 

[REDSLED]

Dan, are you scared to bring the Panoz out to play, now that the Viper boys are all in VRL cars? Sent you a PM. I'll give you the scoop on the new car.

Jonathan

 

[Fast Viper Dan]

Jonathan,
I see you guys "dirt trackin" and I want some of that!
Like I've always said Jonathan, You have to finish to win!
But seriously, I am thinking of making a change. I have found I can run with most of the VRL cars but it's not the same as having a car with equal performance.
Hope to see you at Laguna in October!

 

[REDSLED]

Jonathan,
I've always said Jonathan, You have to finish to win!

Ouch that hurt, but you're right! I think I still have dirt in my car. Remember, you can't go flat out through the esses

 

[doctorbob]

Ask one little question and you get a definite cost analysis! I think a few more operations are required for me to get my CC!

 

[Mike Adams]

Now I am getting some great response. I am deciding on a comp coupe or getting a New coupe when they come out. Another things keeping me back is formula BMW open wheel racing may be the way I want to send my son ! Racing is not cheap for sure. Even a Go kart big race weekend costs me close to $5000

 

[WCKDVPR]

Mike,

Do you need another son?

Please stop putting up all these numbers, I've been happily pretending it was much less expensive than that!

Personal opinion: If you/your son are planning on racing the car, I would get a dedicated race car. Much safer and better at what it is designed for than buying a new concept coupe and tracking it. I started with a street GTS and finally gave up and am fully converting it to SCCA/WC/VRL status. Can't wait.

Regards,

 

[GTS Bruce]

If you are doing it for fum have a great time!If you are looking at a possible future pro, circle track stock cars are the way to go in N.A.Road racing has a limited future due to conflicting series,classes,distances for a newbie to travel etc.Better off geing in a modified or late model and possibly going busch north in the future.More parts,less cost,closer tracks,brighter future.PS I an a road racing fan. Bruce

 

[kverges]

I will be renting a CC at MSR this weekend, so the allure is great, but IMO it is foolish to START racing cars in a CC. I regularly race Spec Miata and Formula Mazda and SM is a perefect starter series for a young racer. We have several teenagers that race with us, the racing is close, and you can *** up and walk away from the car for under $20K, or less without a pro motor and so on.

The SM is also a slower car in top speed, but a momentum car that will teach good habits in smoothness and car control - I suspect it is every bit as quick as a CC in the twisties, which is where the fun is, anyway. You are a lot less likely to hurt yourself in a SM, I would think, given the lower top speeds.

Start out with a season or two in SM, as incidents will be unavoidable for a fast, agressive beginner and you really want to buy $100 fenders rather than CC body parts.

 

[doctorbob]

I did not decide to rent a CC at Dallas. Maybe a good thing...it was hot through the weekend but apparently the first part of the week for the Viper Days was terrible for heat and humidity. In addition the guy from Canada who wadded up his CC on the Thursday(beginning of VIO8) did not seek medical help post crash and later was found out to have a broken neck in Canada(Canadians have free health care in Canada and need special permission/premium to be covered in US). He is lucky he is not paralyzed.

 

[Mike Adams]

After much thought and consideration. I decide to stay in karting at least another year. Here are pictures of the latest 125cc ICC kart just picked up today. This is a 42 hp kart with 6 speed transmission. This is said to be equivalent to driving a formula one car. I have talked to many people including karters who moved to cars and they all said the Kart was more challenging than a car for skills. IF all the formula guys hone their skills in the off season on Karts I feel another year won't hurt.

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[Jay Herbert]

If we had a decent kart racing scene around here I'd be doing the same. It is hard to beat karts for operation costs and fun/racing mile......

 

[GTS Bruce]

Man would I like to try out one of those!I really like road racing but its pretty much dead in North America.Foyt,Mears,etc,et al are sending their kids and grand kids to stock cars.You're not too far from me.Heard of cups lights?Cost 14-16G US new.7/8 the size of a busch cup car.same weight balance front to rear and side to side of a busch cup car.People that have lost a real busch ride have gone to cup lights for a season until something opened up.14 sec laps on a 3/8 mile oval same as a busch cup car all the while being nose to tail and side by side.Not fast enough?A featherlight modified can turn 12 sec laps on the same track.Then there are late models,to move up to.Busch north(1/2 the price of a comp coup).Yep they run at lime rock and WG too, etc.Various truck series and asa and arca and you can actually make a living doing it.Ron fellows (a great sedan road racer) had his biggest pay check finishing 2nd in a cup race at WG.Last probably would have been his biggest pay check too.I recall him in a nextel car at Louden crashing 2 cars in practice and then acting like a moving chichane until of course he crashed out of the race.Different discipline,different techniques,different set ups must be mastered.Trans-am(a bunch of old guys with money driving around in very expensive fragile cars.Maybe nascar will be able to rejuvinate road racing with less costly,easier to work on,easier to fix tube frame cars.For now its a shame the DP are soo darn ugly and the alms cars out of touch with reality. Enough said. GTS Bruce

 

[kverges]

Bruce has said it for pro racing, for the most part. Pro road racing in the US has only lost ground since the Trans Am and Can Am glory days of the 70s. I don't know why, except that oval racing makes for better visibility, many places make it possible to see the whole track as a spectator. But then again, F1 and WRC in Europe are HUGE.

That said, as an amateur, there will always be a place for road racing with SCCA, NASA, VRL and other organizations. Pro racers that actually make a living at it? I'll bet there are fewer than 500 in the world, probably more like 100. So if you want to race, race what you like and can afford.

I personally like the discipline of road racing - frankly there's a lot less to hit than oval and a lower average speed. I venture to say that you can't run more than maybe one oval race without contact, and with big power on a longer asphalt track, there is also some big danger and walls to deal with. I have no interest in that as a amateur.

On another note, I rented a CC at the MSR VRL race and have to say I was impressed in every way - very predictable, no bad habits and way, way fast. I was able to run 1:18.4 at MSR in my first race and about the 4th or 5th session in the car. I still don't think it is a good car to start racing in, but you can step up to it pretty easily, I think.

 

[Mike Adams]

OMG That ICC, are they ever fast !!!