Track testing for Motor Trend again. Kinda secret. All the new Vipers. Rock on.

[bluestreak]

Sorry, I deleted the part where I said for a streetable tires. I meant among real treaded street tires, not grooved semi-slicks. V710's, Hoosiers, R1's, etc. are clearly in a different league although shaved PSC were not too far of the R6 and as you mentioned were raced in classes against the R6 for their longevity. Little details like that may get left out in someone's faster assertion during data analysis. And the issue with cold was moreso with lighter cars (2500-3000 lbs) that raced on them. Heavier cars had no issue getting heat in them but you had to lay into them to get it. People were trying to autocross in them to no avail though. I know Michelin changes tires a lot. There are about 10 different N-spec Porsche MPSC versions, but they are all well below par with regards to other versions and slow. Pretty much a gimmick.

So you are saying the new PSC is quicker than an R6?

I'm simply wondering if you have any testing data examples to support that MPSC are faster now than they were then or as fast as R6's now. And if so I'd like some hear of it. I have not run on MPSC in several years, but they have always been stupid fast for people willing to drive them hard enough to get heat in them.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

PSCs are considered in the same class as a Hoosier or a Kumho 710.

I run PSC on my Viper and Hoosiers. The PSC will last longer, but as noted it is not a good cool weather tire. The compounding on the current PSC is supposedly different, and the comment about being as fast as an R6 came from a question I asked of a Michelin Engineer. When told how much faster the new compounding would be I mentioned, "Heck that would make them as fast as a Hoosier R6?" The reply was, " No , it would make them faster."

Tires have different characteristics and this should not even surprise anyone, but the testing data I and others have is driving both tires. I respect the gentleman at Michelin alot, as he told me this prior to the change. I am sure we will see more tests in the future and I personally am excited to see the Pirelli Trofeo on a track also. Not any different than the horsepower wars, tires are constantly upgrading, changing , redesigning , etc. so no one should even be remotely shocked that the PSC has had some changes.

 

[bluestreak]

Wow, thats a strong assertion from the Michelin man. R6's are pretty beast out of the box. Ill be interested in seeing what the real world results provide.

MPSC are my favorite street tire by far. But there are plenty of mumblings that the trofeo are better. Though its hard to sort past which version of mpsc are being talked about.

 

[chorps]

Wow, thats a strong assertion from the Michelin man. R6's are pretty beast out of the box. Ill be interested in seeing what the real world results provide.

MPSC are my favorite street tire by far. But there are plenty of mumblings that the trofeo are better. Though its hard to sort past which version of mpsc are being talked about.

I guess the SRT team must have gotten surprised how much a moving target the C6 ZR1 and MPSCs were. Competition does improve the breed.

 

[elanderholm]

Hoosiers are much faster than cup tires. Quite a bit depending on the track.

 

[99 R/T 10]

Hoosiers are much faster than cup tires. Quite a bit depending on the track.

But you can't put Hoosier racing tires on a production car. The MPSC should have been the tire of choice for the Gen V track pack option, it is a phenominal tire. I would love to see a side by side of 2 Gen V cars, one with the Pirelli, the other with MPSCs. I bet we would see that 2 second spread.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Bluestreak,

I took the comment from Michelin with a grain of salt, but his assertion that the current tire and it's compounding/changes was quicker than the prior model by a bit ( mentioned 1.5 seconds ). You and I know R6 Hoosiers are quick, so I appreciated the candid observation. I run about a half second to a second quicker on the two tracks I run the most often on Hoosiers over PSCs, but they are the old tires. Be interesting to see what times are available on a new PSC. Rumors the Trofeos are quicker than the PSCs are just that, but this entire discussion shows the competition with tires is every bit as aggressive and ongoing as the horsepower wars. We as consumers are the real beneficiaries.

 

[chorps]

Does anyone know if the Gen IV ACR will get the updated MPSC compound as new stock is being made? Is any new stock being made for the Gen IV ACR? Given the low blowout prices for the rears at Tirerack, it kind of makes me concerned what is going on with MPSCs for Vipers.

 

[bluestreak]

Bluestreak,

I took the comment from Michelin with a grain of salt, but his assertion that the current tire and it's compounding/changes was quicker than the prior model by a bit ( mentioned 1.5 seconds ). You and I know R6 Hoosiers are quick, so I appreciated the candid observation. I run about a half second to a second quicker on the two tracks I run the most often on Hoosiers over PSCs, but they are the old tires. Be interesting to see what times are available on a new PSC. Rumors the Trofeos are quicker than the PSCs are just that, but this entire discussion shows the competition with tires is every bit as aggressive and ongoing as the horsepower wars. We as consumers are the real beneficiaries.

I agree, faster stickier tires is a good thing. I also would need to see it before I believe it that the PSC are faster than R6's. That's a stretch. Laguna lap times for the ZR-1 do not support his assertion if it was in fact on the new compound. The ZR-1 was only 2 seconds faster than it was on PS2's. Even the old compound is worth that much time over PS2's.

 

[kennyhemi]

You do know trofeo means trophy in italian right?

You must be registered for see images

And add the Zero = Zero trophies so far!

 

[SnakeBitten]

Hope we don't have to wait a month or two before we hear the results of the retest. I'm betting different tires are being used in this test maybe even the Trofeo's. Maybe this will be the first trophy for the Trofeo's ha.

 

[chorps]

I'm thinking that there is some final suspension calibration going on as well, Randy had commented that he felt the Gen V was too stiffly sprung for the track. Also I had discussed the MR shocks with a Chrysler engineer and I guess they felt the MR shocks didn't give enough benefit for the performance (his specific words were "gimmick" ). I said I wasn't so sure since other vendors are using them besides GM...like Ferrari.

Still, I'm hoping the final calibration will give some very positive gains in real life feedback to drivers like Randy where they can be confident enough to extract 100% of the car's performance. Then we can see where the final numbers wind up relative to the C6 ZR1.

 

[kdaviper]

I'm thinking that there is some final suspension calibration going on as well, Randy had commented that he felt the Gen V was too stiffly sprung for the track. Also I had discussed the MR shocks with a Chrysler engineer and I guess they felt the MR shocks didn't give enough benefit for the performance (his specific words were "gimmick" ). I said I wasn't so sure since other vendors are using them besides GM...like Ferrari.

Still, I'm hoping the final calibration will give some very positive gains in real life feedback to drivers like Randy where they can be confident enough to extract 100% of the car's performance. Then we can see where the final numbers wind up relative to the C6 ZR1.

Lol, you talk like Ferrari knows how to give the best bang for the buck! Most of a new Ferrari IS gimmicks! That's why they need 900 hp to get around a track faster than an ACR!

 

[3whitevipers]

Bill--
Really appreciate you sharing your extensive knowledge with us. I always learn something on this forum--Thanks--Dave

 

[TowDawg]

Does anyone know if the Gen IV ACR will get the updated MPSC compound as new stock is being made? Is any new stock being made for the Gen IV ACR? Given the low blowout prices for the rears at Tirerack, it kind of makes me concerned what is going on with MPSCs for Vipers.

^^^THIS^^^

It's getting close to time for me order new street tires, so how would one tell if the PSC's are the new compound or not? Is there a date code that they changed to new compound after? It would definitely seem that the crazy low prices on the rears are getting rid of the old compound tires.

 

[Viper Grenade]

So anyone know what happen for the track testing??? Seems to have gotten lost in the echo of tire talk.

 

[ACRucrazy]

Can't say either way for sure. Just know that SRT doesn't cheat with out media cars. As we say about racing, "You have to win despite any cheating." Don't worry. Their record won't stand for long.

We like the Vette! It is the best Vette since the 60's. Lots of performance per $, and fast given the weight and 450hp. Best damn girl's car ever made.

http://www.lxforums.com/board/f350/srt-engineers-round-table-3-12-2013-a-329918/index6.html

 

[ViperSmith]

Best damn girl's car ever made


Oh snap

 

[Coloviper]

Pretty sad when Viper owners have to go to an LX forum to get answers to Viper questions from SRT. VCA future is starting to look questionable too, since still no word on previous Viper owners ability to re-join, etc.. (absolute last time I am even going to ask) For 3 of the 6 years I was with the club, use to see value in being here and the preferential treatment for things like this, but the benefits and patience are all worn thin.

Sorry not a supreme pessimist but there are so many question marks and un answered aspects in all this now, it is really hard to even see the forest for the trees. The crickets are so loud, you can't hear anything.

 

[mnc2886]

http://www.lxforums.com/board/f350/srt-engineers-round-table-3-12-2013-a-329918/index6.html

Cool that they are after rectifying this situation, but it has been long enough...time to show the real results. The cars may be shipping in the next month or so and 2nd wave ordering will open. They'll need the press and positive press this time at that.

 

[troublemaker]

Why does it seem like SRT has shied away from this forum? Did something happen that I missed?

 

[Bobpantax]

Assuming that there was another comparo test, the results of same would be subject to a press embargo. This is a standard practice. In view of the start date of this thread, if there is a story, the news should be released fairly soon. When does the next edition of MT come out? On line? In print?

 

[ViperSmith]

Assuming that there was another comparo test, the results of same would be subject to a press embargo. This is a standard practice. In view of the start date of this thread, if there is a story, the news should be released fairly soon. When does the next edition of MT come out? On line? In print?

Exactly. This is a story by MT, why on Earth would anyone expect the details to be out before then?

 

[ACRucrazy]

Why does it seem like SRT has shied away from this forum? Did something happen that I missed?

Probably because of all the ******** and moaning in the Gen V section...



Seriously though, the SRTEngineer chat sessions seem to revolve through the various forums. Viper, SRT, LX, Caliber etc etc. That and I am sure they all have been more than busy lately. I too would like to see more frequent chats, regardless what forum they are held on.

 

[ViperSmith]

Why does it seem like SRT has shied away from this forum? Did something happen that I missed?

They have other vehicles they make and build. The Viper is a fun toy, lets not all pretend it is a cash cow for SRT/Chrysler - SRT needs to market their other vehicles to stay solvent.

 

[Boxer12]

...the Michelin guy is a salesman with a tire to sell you. There is NO treaded tire that can beat a Hoosier at the track...period. Also, when it comes to driving in all conditions (like pouring rain) in a sportscar, there are much better tires than MPSC for that. If you want a treaded tire to make a hot lap on a nice day, then the MPSC is best for that ..

and yes, I have pushed the MPSC tires (to the point of worn out in four sessions) to find out.

 

[Alabaster Mamba]

Just a thought and maybe SRT has it, but couldn't SRT post a schedule of where (which forum) will be hosting their chat sessions? It could be posted in each of the respective forums SRT Chat section. It would make it more feasible for others to voice some concerns. It would also help to get the SRT owners into more of a tight knit family/group. I will say this, you don't see any of the other manufacturers caring enough to attend car forums and passing on information/advice. Way to rock on SRT!!

 

[MTGTS]

...the Michelin guy is a salesman with a tire to sell you. There is NO treaded tire that can beat a Hoosier at the track...period. Also, when it comes to driving in all conditions (like pouring rain) in a sportscar, there are much better tires than MPSC for that. If you want a treaded tire to make a hot lap on a nice day, then the MPSC is best for that ..

agreed

 

[MTGTS]

Why does it seem like SRT has shied away from this forum? Did something happen that I missed?

Is SRT still advertising in the VCA Magazine?

 

[Nambo]

Results are out on motortrend.com. Not sure how to post a link using the phone.