Used market flood
- Thread starter commandomatt
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georgethedog
Enthusiast
Yea, me too. So, what is the cost of this supercar 4 door sedan?
SilveRT8
Enthusiast
He didn't say cheaper, so I'll guess a Panamera Turbo S ?
Still very debatable, untill we get real world testing
Still very debatable, untill we get real world testing
Paul Hawker
Enthusiast
As fast or faster...around what track?
emericr
Enthusiast
I know I would peak some interest 
. Far for me to think this four door sedan would beat the Viper on a track. The snake is king there
. I am just talking on the streets and straight line performance. As previously stated, the Viper I would buy would be my daily driver and would rarely see the track (only a few events a year). I love driving cars and do not have the means to have a garage week end queen like the Snake.
The car I am referring to is cheaper than the Gen V. It is an AMG CLS63 tuned with downpipes. It has been tested and proven to be under low 11s and even in the high 10s. Fully warrantied and can seat 4 peoples in comfort for about $110K.
. Far for me to think this four door sedan would beat the Viper on a track. The snake is king there . I am just talking on the streets and straight line performance. As previously stated, the Viper I would buy would be my daily driver and would rarely see the track (only a few events a year). I love driving cars and do not have the means to have a garage week end queen like the Snake. The car I am referring to is cheaper than the Gen V. It is an AMG CLS63 tuned with downpipes. It has been tested and proven to be under low 11s and even in the high 10s. Fully warrantied and can seat 4 peoples in comfort for about $110K.
Meh. I love AMG but to me it's just another Mercedes on the road. Looks more like a chicks' car but whatever floats your boat.
emericr
Enthusiast
I agree it does not look as manly as the snake but I think you are pushing it calling it a chicks car. It roars stock as loud as a Viper and does power slides like any real sports cars.
denniskgb
Enthusiast
DRBSRT
Viper Owner
Maybe he is thinking about the old CLS body style. I bought a 2013 CLS63 for my DD and I love it!!! The new body style gets many positive comments.
SLViper
Viper Owner
I know I would peak some interest
The car I am referring to is cheaper than the Gen V. It is an AMG CLS63 tuned with downpipes. It has been tested and proven to be under low 11s and even in the high 10s. Fully warrantied and can seat 4 peoples in comfort for about $110K.
AMG CLS63 with all the options and performance packages more like 150k and at 4,500 pounds will have a hard time beating a gen 2 Viper in a straight line.
emericr
Enthusiast
Get your facts straight, even a fully optioned CLS63 at MSRP will not top $125K. Mine as stated with the tune and downpipes came at $110K.
I am fully aware the car is heavy (about 4,300 pounds) but 11.3 seconds 1/4 mile on street tires will beat most Gen 2s. 10.9s on drag radials is impressive in my book for a car that is basically stock.
http://www.renntechmercedes.com/www/node/566
http://www.dragtimes.com/Mercedes-Benz--CLS63-AMG-Drag-Racing.html
Based on this thread, http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/646490-Anyone-have-a-list-of-stock-Viper-1-4-miles-by-year, the CLS would show its tailpipes to the Viper.
I am fully aware the car is heavy (about 4,300 pounds) but 11.3 seconds 1/4 mile on street tires will beat most Gen 2s. 10.9s on drag radials is impressive in my book for a car that is basically stock.
http://www.renntechmercedes.com/www/node/566
http://www.dragtimes.com/Mercedes-Benz--CLS63-AMG-Drag-Racing.html
Based on this thread, http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/646490-Anyone-have-a-list-of-stock-Viper-1-4-miles-by-year, the CLS would show its tailpipes to the Viper.
Impressive, being able to beat a 16 year old car...
LMAO. Though I'd like to line up with it and see what happens.
I don't see how the CLS63 and the Viper are in the same category. I think the AMG's are to be respected but compared to the Viper, the CLS63 is an overly-expensive, overly engineered, heavier, 4 door sedan, common and no wow factor. If the wow factor is being able to beat a 16 year old Viper....k....but the CLS63 and the Viper are apples-oranges. 
They look nice I agree with that.Perhaps stating it's a chick's car was the wrong choice of words because chick's can fling cars around a track too. It's pretty and sleek. The word that's more appropriate is that the CLS63 is "Docile"compared to the Viper, any Viper. The Viper is unique and the Mercedes is not, anymore. I'm certain the CLS63 is a fun regardless.
emericr
Enthusiast
Agreed. I believe it is a stunning car for a 4 door sedan. The A7 comes close and 0-60 times with Quattro was in the 3s. One of the reason why I also decided on not getting a Viper for now is the attention it gets. As previously stated, I started talking to enthusiasts who own Vipers and one of the thing they shared is that the attention it gets with the law is very high. Obviously a Viper is a rare object and its looks are one of a kind. People got pulled over just because of the car and got tickets for stupid things or very minor speed infractions (5mph over). I have a heavy foot and being stealth is a huge advantage in my book. I have a Passport 9500ci that also helps in that department
Just recently got rid of an E63 and it was by far my favorite 4 door sedan i have ever owned. Will probably get another one some day. The CLS didnt have enough head room for me. This being said i can give my opinion . The E63 was blazingly fast for a sedan but my Gen IV would definitely take it in a straight line. I imagine the Gen V would be that much faster. I also think the CLS is a bit heavier than the E63. i could be wrong. Anyway, why are we even comparing a sedan toa 2 door sports car??
I know I would peak some interest
The car I am referring to is cheaper than the Gen V. It is an AMG CLS63 tuned with downpipes. It has been tested and proven to be under low 11s and even in the high 10s. Fully warrantied and can seat 4 peoples in comfort for about $110K.
emericr
Enthusiast
We are talking straight line performance and I just proved to you that any relatively stock (tuned or exhaust) Viper is slower or same than 11.3 seconds. How does that not compare??? Performance is performance. The CLS63 is as unique as a Viper. I already agreed that the snake wins on the WOW factor. It seems many Viper owners buy it for that factor but that rates low on my priority list.
You obviously have not driven an AMG lately. It is not the grandpas car of previous generations. Check out Top Gear just as an example and you will see that docile is not an adjective used to describe the latest AMGs. I agree with your statement that it is docile compared to a Viper but again, I was never interested in the previous Gens and the new Gen V has been tamed a bit and was a reason why the Viper is on my list. If I want something raw, I would rather buy an Ariel Atom.
You obviously have not driven an AMG lately. It is not the grandpas car of previous generations. Check out Top Gear just as an example and you will see that docile is not an adjective used to describe the latest AMGs. I agree with your statement that it is docile compared to a Viper but again, I was never interested in the previous Gens and the new Gen V has been tamed a bit and was a reason why the Viper is on my list. If I want something raw, I would rather buy an Ariel Atom.
LMAO. Though I'd like to line up with it and see what happens.
Perhaps stating it's a chick's car was the wrong choice of words because chick's can fling cars around a track too. It's pretty and sleek. The word that's more appropriate is that the CLS63 is "Docile"compared to the Viper, any Viper. The Viper is unique and the Mercedes is not, anymore. I'm certain the CLS63 is a fun regardless.
emericr
Enthusiast
Was your E63 the new one with the TT engine? If not, I agree that the Viper is faster. The new TT engine tuned is a monster.
Check this thread on one tuned E63 beating supercars. Again we are not talking about major mods, just a simple software change.
http://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/470289-my-2012-e63-airstrip-attack.html
Regarding comments about why we are comparing a CLS to a Viper, we are all power freaks and I believe performance (0-60, 60-130, 1/4 mile and track abilities) is one of the top 3 reasons why you would buy a Viper. Therefore IMHO it does not matter if the car has 4 doors or is a wagon. The fun factor of AMGs is also high which is also one I think it compares well to the Viper.
Check this thread on one tuned E63 beating supercars. Again we are not talking about major mods, just a simple software change.
http://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/470289-my-2012-e63-airstrip-attack.html
Regarding comments about why we are comparing a CLS to a Viper, we are all power freaks and I believe performance (0-60, 60-130, 1/4 mile and track abilities) is one of the top 3 reasons why you would buy a Viper. Therefore IMHO it does not matter if the car has 4 doors or is a wagon. The fun factor of AMGs is also high which is also one I think it compares well to the Viper.
rw99
Enthusiast
Holy Multiple Off Topic Thread, Batman!
Anyway, a quick scan of the major online car sales sites shows a fair number of Vipers... seems to be similar to when I used to visit these sites regularly to shop for "my" Viper. A few thoughts:
--I see two types of Viper-loving (i.e. non-conquest) Gen V buyer: Mr. Money-doesn't-matter, and Mr. There's-still-a-budget-at-my-house. The former has already ordered the launch GTS or is customizing one with all desired options, and might also pick up a new ACR if that ever comes around. He'll keep his current Viper(s), unless there's space needed in the stable. The second guy, the one living with some financial constraints, may see the Gen V purchase as dependent upon the value of his current Viper. He's the trade-up guy, and he's got a pre-determined sales scenario for his (likely) Gen III or Gen IV. If he can't get $xxxxx for the car, he can't justify buying the Gen V. So his car is likely for sale, a bit optimistically priced, and he's decided that he'll either sell it for the listed price or just keep and enjoy it. So I think there will be increased Gen III/IV inventory for at least the next 18 or 24 months, but the number of actual sales may not keep pace.
--It could be perceived that there's now a window for mothballed Gen IV ACR's, either open-ended or due to shut immediately upon arrival of a Gen V ACR. The arrival of the new base Gen V stirs an interesting question... which would you rather buy with your hard-earned ~$105k: the 2013 SRT car or a pristine 2009/2010 ACR? On the surface, it seems debatable, but in reality the answer is known. Those Gen IV ACRs are still available for a reason: nobody's buying them. So this should be a year of declining price for them, even though there's not a "glut" of inventory. And how hard will it be, really, for SRT to add the splitter, spoiler, and some magical suspension reconfig for a 2015 Viper ACR? <my pulse increased just typing that sentence>
--Before I bought one myself, I was always a little puzzled by how some guys owned two (or even more) Vipers. Now, I get it. You lust after the new & improved version... but you still love the one that's in your garage. I know I'm only a lottery win away from adding a nice cruising GTS to the spot next to my Gen IV
Anyway, a quick scan of the major online car sales sites shows a fair number of Vipers... seems to be similar to when I used to visit these sites regularly to shop for "my" Viper. A few thoughts:
--I see two types of Viper-loving (i.e. non-conquest) Gen V buyer: Mr. Money-doesn't-matter, and Mr. There's-still-a-budget-at-my-house. The former has already ordered the launch GTS or is customizing one with all desired options, and might also pick up a new ACR if that ever comes around. He'll keep his current Viper(s), unless there's space needed in the stable. The second guy, the one living with some financial constraints, may see the Gen V purchase as dependent upon the value of his current Viper. He's the trade-up guy, and he's got a pre-determined sales scenario for his (likely) Gen III or Gen IV. If he can't get $xxxxx for the car, he can't justify buying the Gen V. So his car is likely for sale, a bit optimistically priced, and he's decided that he'll either sell it for the listed price or just keep and enjoy it. So I think there will be increased Gen III/IV inventory for at least the next 18 or 24 months, but the number of actual sales may not keep pace.
--It could be perceived that there's now a window for mothballed Gen IV ACR's, either open-ended or due to shut immediately upon arrival of a Gen V ACR. The arrival of the new base Gen V stirs an interesting question... which would you rather buy with your hard-earned ~$105k: the 2013 SRT car or a pristine 2009/2010 ACR? On the surface, it seems debatable, but in reality the answer is known. Those Gen IV ACRs are still available for a reason: nobody's buying them. So this should be a year of declining price for them, even though there's not a "glut" of inventory. And how hard will it be, really, for SRT to add the splitter, spoiler, and some magical suspension reconfig for a 2015 Viper ACR? <my pulse increased just typing that sentence>
--Before I bought one myself, I was always a little puzzled by how some guys owned two (or even more) Vipers. Now, I get it. You lust after the new & improved version... but you still love the one that's in your garage. I know I'm only a lottery win away from adding a nice cruising GTS to the spot next to my Gen IV
Good post but I disagree on this point.
There are only a handful of them around and they are in shall we kindly say "less desirable" color schemes?
To be honest, Tomball made some real questionable color schemes up. I know, I bought one.
Of course, with the Gen 5 coming out they are an even harder sell.
rw99
Enthusiast
Great point, Jon. I should modify that to include the <3000 mile "princess" Gen IV ACRs that can be purchased for $10k or $20k less. There are a couple of gorgeous examples (SSGs and Graphites) available... I'm frankly kinda surprised that they haven't sold!
Rich
I cannot possible imagine a better deal than picking up a still under warranty 2009-2010 Gen 4 ACR with some <4-5K on it for mid 80Ks or so.
Paul Hawker
Enthusiast
Most Viper owners buy their cars for the driving experience. Cannot compare forced induction cars with their boost turned up to driving a naturally aspirated, manual transmission car. The difference in the experience is from two different worlds.
This is why the Nissan car, while putting down some pretty respectful numbers, is not on the radar screen for Viper owners. They do not wish to deal with the turbo lag, and the automatic transmission.
Doing a 1/4 mile run in a Viper is a totally different experience than driving an automatic transmission car down the track. It is more engaging and satisfying to be in control of the experience, than letting the car and computer do all the driving, with you just holding the steering wheel straight.
Mercedes makes some pretty high performing cars and trucks, but they only compare in magazine numbers, not in the experience.
In a Mercedes, everybody gets the same numbers. Skill and experience has no value. Your grandmother, girlfriend and you all get the exact same numbers going down the track. You are just along for the ride. Not Viper style.
This is why the Nissan car, while putting down some pretty respectful numbers, is not on the radar screen for Viper owners. They do not wish to deal with the turbo lag, and the automatic transmission.
Doing a 1/4 mile run in a Viper is a totally different experience than driving an automatic transmission car down the track. It is more engaging and satisfying to be in control of the experience, than letting the car and computer do all the driving, with you just holding the steering wheel straight.
Mercedes makes some pretty high performing cars and trucks, but they only compare in magazine numbers, not in the experience.
In a Mercedes, everybody gets the same numbers. Skill and experience has no value. Your grandmother, girlfriend and you all get the exact same numbers going down the track. You are just along for the ride. Not Viper style.
v10enomous
Enthusiast
Possibly a used Gen V a year to a year and a half from now for mid 80's. But right now a low miles ACR is tough to beat.
I'm trying to figure that one out.
This thread went from a concern over potential flood of used Viper going to market over the GenV, to someone getting offended by the word Supercar to a 4 door sedan that beats a 16 year old Viper and the GenV.... even though no performance numbers and/or real-world testing has been released on the GenV yet. So, what I've learned from this thread so far is:[ ] Nothing
[X] Less than Nothing
emericr
Enthusiast
Ignorance is bliss... Why can't you compare? I guess you would be the guy at the drag strip after you lose to a 4 door sedan giving the excuse that it took no skills and it was not as entertaining. Give me a break...
It comes down to the overall experience behind the wheel. If you only accept a stick with a N/A engine, your personal choice but that does not make a Jag XKR-S or a Ferrari FF for example less worthy.
If you think anyone can get the same numbers in an AMG, you are truly mistaken and need to get out a bit more. I would suggest an AMG driving academy or similar school from Audi, Jag or BMW.
Finally, do you know what a black series is? I can assure you the experience is as good as any Vipers...
It comes down to the overall experience behind the wheel. If you only accept a stick with a N/A engine, your personal choice but that does not make a Jag XKR-S or a Ferrari FF for example less worthy.
If you think anyone can get the same numbers in an AMG, you are truly mistaken and need to get out a bit more. I would suggest an AMG driving academy or similar school from Audi, Jag or BMW.
Finally, do you know what a black series is? I can assure you the experience is as good as any Vipers...
emericr
Enthusiast
I am not offended at all, just sharing my opinions. I simply do not have an undivided love for the Viper and respect other manufacturers for a product that is both exciting with performance to back it up.
Bring your new Gen V to a strip, post your numbers and see how close you get to 11.2 on street tires...
Bring your new Gen V to a strip, post your numbers and see how close you get to 11.2 on street tires...
I'm trying to figure that one out.
[ ] Nothing
[X] Less than Nothing
I don't think you were offended, someone else was. I lost track. I respect other manufacturers including AMG but it doesn't do it for me. Before I purchase a GenV, I will first a buy GenIV ACR and/or a GenIII that I can turn into a twin turbo monster. If the GenV is able to be modded, boosted, tuned I will reconsider the priority of purchase. For now, I enjoy my 700hp+ knuckle-dragger GenII with Greg Good treatment. If I pull up next to a CLS63 AMG I'll think of you.
Congratulations and enjoy your CLS. Feel free to post up your time slips when you get to the track with it. Hopefully by then we'll have some GenV performance data.ViperSmith
Enthusiast
Switzer is pondering targeting a domestic brand to conquer after what they've done with the GT-R, I hope they adopt the Viper instead of the Vette or something else.
Paul Hawker
Enthusiast
emir.
I get beat by people every time I go to the Drags. Even got beat by a VW and Chevette. They were better drivers, in faster cars. No shame here for me.
Where the shame is for some troll to come to the house of Viper and become rude, sarcastic, and condescending to owners from someone who is someday going to own a mercedes.
I get beat by people every time I go to the Drags. Even got beat by a VW and Chevette. They were better drivers, in faster cars. No shame here for me.
Where the shame is for some troll to come to the house of Viper and become rude, sarcastic, and condescending to owners from someone who is someday going to own a mercedes.
