Alabaster Mamba
Enthusiast
Exactly. For all we know he is some kid who just loves to stir stuff up to get a rise out of people. As people say, Is he going to talk the talk or walk the walk?
Used market flood
- Thread starter commandomatt
- Start date
Exactly. For all we know he is some kid who just loves to stir stuff up to get a rise out of people. As people say, Is he going to talk the talk or walk the walk?
05Commemorative
Enthusiast
Very well said.
As someone who's daily driver is an E55 AMG (which is quicker than the E63 models) as stated in many publications as a 0-60 in 4.1 and 12.2 qtr (both of which I would only know via a magazine), it really is an odd comparison to me. Don't get me wrong, this E55 is the best car I have owned and I have driven the new AMG's, but anybody could drive it fast off the line with no skill required. So, at the end of the day, why would anyone come on in the GenV forum and claim their car is faster? Love AMG's to death and everything about them, but compare to a Viper (or any sports car for that matter) is a bit odd.
As for the main topic of the thread, I do wonder if the significant price-jump and press praise will buck past trends and actually help hold (maybe even increase) prices of the older vipers. I wonder because when I look at the Vipers for sale today, they all seems to be priced higher for the same thing from about a year ago. I am mainly looking at the Gen3's and Gen4's.
denniskgb
Enthusiast
............
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
If someone doesn't own one, hasn't owned one, and isn't buying one, don't see much what their opinion is on it - personally.
AMG makes fine cars, but this isn't an AMG forum.
AMG makes fine cars, but this isn't an AMG forum.
Slithr
Enthusiast
Paul, you nailed it! He's been 'shopping for ladies shoes' for a while now and still can't make up his/her mind
It seems to me that Pre Gen V Vipers and Gen V Vipers are very different creatures and purposely so. SRT intended to attract Audi, Porsche, BMW, etc. owners to the Gen V. The marketing platform and customization choices are now similar to that used by Porsche. They are even trying to snazz up the service. Pre Gen V, this was not the case. Everyone knew the Viper was a gearhead driver's car with the exception of the garage queen Vipers that never get used for their intended purpose anyway. So with that said, it seems to me that there are two different subsets of buyers with some overlap between them. There are many people that would like a pre Gen V Viper that could not afford one new. Those people will definitely not be able to afford a Gen V.
It also helps that the Viper is still being made. Up until recently, I had heard some people say they liked the car but since it was no longer being made, they were hesitant to get involved with one. That fear has now been laid to rest.
There are also some well and tastefully modified cars like mine that have bullet proof, reliable and durable mods done that allow them to handle with the best and produce more power than all but a few vehicles that cost a fortune. I never cared much about the "fancy stuff". To me, if it does not make it go faster and handle better, it is a waste of money and a weight adder. I think that there are probably many like me that feel the same way.
With that said, the Gen V is a change in the Viper that had to have occurred for reasons that we have discussed ad nauseum. Whether one views the Viper as having evolved or as having died off to be replaced by something quite different with the same name depends on how one defined and defines the Viper. Sometimes a species has to suffer extinction because the environment changes so much that it can no longer survive.
So for those who will always view the pre Gen V Vipers as "the real Vipers" just as millions view the 60s and 70s muscle cars as "the real muscle cars", the pre Gen V Vipers should hold increasing interest and value as the years go by.
It also helps that the Viper is still being made. Up until recently, I had heard some people say they liked the car but since it was no longer being made, they were hesitant to get involved with one. That fear has now been laid to rest.
There are also some well and tastefully modified cars like mine that have bullet proof, reliable and durable mods done that allow them to handle with the best and produce more power than all but a few vehicles that cost a fortune. I never cared much about the "fancy stuff". To me, if it does not make it go faster and handle better, it is a waste of money and a weight adder. I think that there are probably many like me that feel the same way.
With that said, the Gen V is a change in the Viper that had to have occurred for reasons that we have discussed ad nauseum. Whether one views the Viper as having evolved or as having died off to be replaced by something quite different with the same name depends on how one defined and defines the Viper. Sometimes a species has to suffer extinction because the environment changes so much that it can no longer survive.
So for those who will always view the pre Gen V Vipers as "the real Vipers" just as millions view the 60s and 70s muscle cars as "the real muscle cars", the pre Gen V Vipers should hold increasing interest and value as the years go by.
Em a Ricer,
Sew, u hav zaid u arr das Ricer boy, und u lika das Mercedes. Vell, dis isz der Vipurr Vorum , und ve gott rid ov Daimler vunce, und ve don't need zem bach! Fiat und Chrysler ist eine marerage und zay git along jest vine!. Ve luv our Vipurrz, und ve listened to yur pinion vor avile, und now ve must say, " Vipurr uber alles, und ve don't kare one schitt about das 4 dour Benz beetch! Oh, yesss, und hav eine nize day!
Sew, u hav zaid u arr das Ricer boy, und u lika das Mercedes. Vell, dis isz der Vipurr Vorum , und ve gott rid ov Daimler vunce, und ve don't need zem bach! Fiat und Chrysler ist eine marerage und zay git along jest vine!. Ve luv our Vipurrz, und ve listened to yur pinion vor avile, und now ve must say, " Vipurr uber alles, und ve don't kare one schitt about das 4 dour Benz beetch! Oh, yesss, und hav eine nize day!
JAY
Enthusiast
Paul Hawker
Enthusiast
Pemberton.
You look different, but sound exactly the same : >)
You look different, but sound exactly the same : >)
emericr
Enthusiast
Again, who's trowing the venom? Have I once in this thread thrown negative feedback about the Viper??? All I said was that performance wise, there are other alternatives.
I have called no ones names and all I ask is the same but I guess it is too much to ask... So sad.
I do not have anything to prove to anyone regarding my wallet size and what I can afford. My user name is the same on the benz, mercedes and porsche forums and if anyone cares (I know most will not because no other forum matters), you can check it will see that I am not a troll and I have the means to buy a Gen V but my requirements are different than most.
ViperJon and company do not have the vision like Bobpantax stated that SRT is trying to attract a different breed of buyers.
Bill by bashing me lost a potential client. How smart was that... Looks like he has not listened to Ralph.
OP: I apologize for drifting from your original question and I will stop my comments.
I have called no ones names and all I ask is the same but I guess it is too much to ask... So sad.
I do not have anything to prove to anyone regarding my wallet size and what I can afford. My user name is the same on the benz, mercedes and porsche forums and if anyone cares (I know most will not because no other forum matters), you can check it will see that I am not a troll and I have the means to buy a Gen V but my requirements are different than most.
ViperJon and company do not have the vision like Bobpantax stated that SRT is trying to attract a different breed of buyers.
Bill by bashing me lost a potential client. How smart was that... Looks like he has not listened to Ralph.
OP: I apologize for drifting from your original question and I will stop my comments.
Nine Ball
Enthusiast
I don't know of too many car buyers that "have" to trade something in, in order to afford to spend $120k on a toy like the Viper. Most of these expensive toy buyers just buy them because they have a vacant spot in the garage to fill. I am keeping my '06 coupe, and have ordered a Gen V. As Bill stated, I don't expect to see values drop on any previous gen, as they are all still desirable and cool to own.
You're a leading member of the cheerleadering squad of recently joined noobs who have sung the praises of the new Viper for months and then when it finally comes time to order.. Finally time to put up the dough..lol..what do you know...it was all talk no action. Let the excuses fly!
I'm sure Bill P will be losing sleep over you not buying a car you never intended to anyway.
commandomatt
Enthusiast
Although I somewhat agree, the fact that the Gen V is quite a bit more expensive than previous versions, this may force some buyers to sell or trade in their older cars in order to make the deal happen. You will always have the buyers that Have to have it, and that will do anything they need to in order to get there. The leasing thread going on right now goes to show that this is sometimes the case.
I personally think that the comment made about the older Generations keeping their value is right. This new 'refined' car and its final price leaves a huge gap between a used and a new one. This alone may keep the older Generation values stable.
Even when the 2013's become available on the used market, I cant imagine they will drop so much in price that it will affect the older generations much.
Matt
Emericr,
There is no reason to take it so personal. If my silly little comments offended you , sorry, just having a little fun with all the comments in this thread. I found it funny we get hijacked by a 4dr sedan comment, and since it was Da Bendz, and many of us lived through the damage Daimler did to Chrysler, it was fodder for the fire. Don't let a little sarcasm and silly humor affect you , it really was not that personal, I just felt the door was open to take a jab at the Churman company. Little play on your moniker was frankly just in jest, as I have no real idea what it is supposed to mean, but took a little poetic license-- all to get things back on track about what the real discussion was , though I can see I really didn't help much. Sorry, and have a good day.
There is no reason to take it so personal. If my silly little comments offended you , sorry, just having a little fun with all the comments in this thread. I found it funny we get hijacked by a 4dr sedan comment, and since it was Da Bendz, and many of us lived through the damage Daimler did to Chrysler, it was fodder for the fire. Don't let a little sarcasm and silly humor affect you , it really was not that personal, I just felt the door was open to take a jab at the Churman company. Little play on your moniker was frankly just in jest, as I have no real idea what it is supposed to mean, but took a little poetic license-- all to get things back on track about what the real discussion was , though I can see I really didn't help much. Sorry, and have a good day.
Chelseasnake
Enthusiast
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nothing to be sorry about bill, we are all having fun. as for the benz, benz there done dat.
Better yet immediately refi with PenFed @1.9%.
emericr
Enthusiast
All of you are teaming up on my comments that there is a four door sedan that is as fast as Viper, I get called a troll and I should not take it personal??? Again no where in this thread have I bashed the Viper. I have even called it the king of the tracks.
Now, let the fire begin (and it should be dealt in another thread) but it is pathetic to see that you think it is Daimler who damaged Chrysler. Last time I checked, it is Daimler who shared technology with Chrysler (chassis and engine for the 300M and crossfire just to name a few) and Mercedes dumped it because it was not a viable business unit.
http://mba.tuck.dartmouth.edu/pdf/2002-1-0071.pdf Here's an excerpt:
Three years after merger DaimlerChrysler's market capitalization stands at $44 billion, roughly equal
to the value of Daimler-Benz before the merger13. Its stock has been banished from the S&P
500, and Chrysler Group's share value has declined by one-third relative to pre-merger
values. Unlike the Mercedes-Benz and Smart Car Division, which posted an operating profit
of EUR 830 million in Q3 2000, the Chrysler Group has been losing money at an alarming
rate. In the same quarter, it lost $512 million14.
Now, let the fire begin (and it should be dealt in another thread) but it is pathetic to see that you think it is Daimler who damaged Chrysler. Last time I checked, it is Daimler who shared technology with Chrysler (chassis and engine for the 300M and crossfire just to name a few) and Mercedes dumped it because it was not a viable business unit.
http://mba.tuck.dartmouth.edu/pdf/2002-1-0071.pdf Here's an excerpt:
Three years after merger DaimlerChrysler's market capitalization stands at $44 billion, roughly equal
to the value of Daimler-Benz before the merger13. Its stock has been banished from the S&P
500, and Chrysler Group's share value has declined by one-third relative to pre-merger
values. Unlike the Mercedes-Benz and Smart Car Division, which posted an operating profit
of EUR 830 million in Q3 2000, the Chrysler Group has been losing money at an alarming
rate. In the same quarter, it lost $512 million14.
Enough already. It is the Holiday season. Move on from the comments and discuss the topic. There is alot of male subculture jesting and testing on this forum. That is all it is. Back up, reboot, and reengage. The culture of this forum is long established. Trying to change it is the equivalent of ******* in the wind. My experience is that Viper owners as a whole are pretty thick skinned people who enjoy the give and take of a jab or two. I know that I do. Most are funny. It helps keep me in joisting condition.
v10enomous
Enthusiast
J/K Oh boy, you need to put on a Kenny Rogers album and chill. "Know when to hold em', no when to fold em', know when to walk away, know when to run!"
There are lots of vehicles faster than the Viper and other cars, blah, blah, blah. A 4 door sports car is purchased because someone needs 4 doors and rear seats. A 2 door sports car is purchased because you don't have those constraints amongst other things. Honestly what is your point in carrying this on? You are just looking vendictive, disrespectful and a little ignorant in your continued comments. Let it go already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I happen to really like the look of the AMGs and can respect their great performance however I would never buy an AMG or a M-B for the simple fact is they are like British cars and loaded with tons of electrical problems and they love to not stray too far from the dealership maintenance department. My good friend down the street has a SL65 from new and over the past 4 years, it has honestly almost spent as much time at the dealership to fix this electrical this or that as driving it or having it home. He is distraught when he sees me in my used 06' Cayenne Turbo S with almost 95,000 miles on it now and I have only taken it in for regular service and a couple of small odds and ends.....it almost has 100k miles. My point is, a comparison can be made for anything.
To each their own, and while everyone is aware that there are other options to the Viper out there, your statement that M-B did not negatively affect Chrysler, is the tell card that you simple are ignorant to the true situation. Not the ficticous published situation car mags like to state when 60% of their advertising revenue is from foreign sponsorship. The fact M-B wanted to liquidate and sell off the Viper, in a move of extreme arrogance, should have alerted you to what they really are like.
There are lots of vehicles faster than the Viper and other cars, blah, blah, blah. A 4 door sports car is purchased because someone needs 4 doors and rear seats. A 2 door sports car is purchased because you don't have those constraints amongst other things. Honestly what is your point in carrying this on? You are just looking vendictive, disrespectful and a little ignorant in your continued comments. Let it go already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I happen to really like the look of the AMGs and can respect their great performance however I would never buy an AMG or a M-B for the simple fact is they are like British cars and loaded with tons of electrical problems and they love to not stray too far from the dealership maintenance department. My good friend down the street has a SL65 from new and over the past 4 years, it has honestly almost spent as much time at the dealership to fix this electrical this or that as driving it or having it home. He is distraught when he sees me in my used 06' Cayenne Turbo S with almost 95,000 miles on it now and I have only taken it in for regular service and a couple of small odds and ends.....it almost has 100k miles. My point is, a comparison can be made for anything.
To each their own, and while everyone is aware that there are other options to the Viper out there, your statement that M-B did not negatively affect Chrysler, is the tell card that you simple are ignorant to the true situation. Not the ficticous published situation car mags like to state when 60% of their advertising revenue is from foreign sponsorship. The fact M-B wanted to liquidate and sell off the Viper, in a move of extreme arrogance, should have alerted you to what they really are like.
Nine Ball
Enthusiast
Someday, we will find out that 1BADGTS was actually just Evan Smith trolling us. LOL!
emericr
Enthusiast
Has everyone forgot the point of a forum? Express opinions and that is all they are after all. Opinions.
Everyone has their own and you do not see me in this forum calling users names like trolls and telling people they are ignorant. Users like ViperJon have done it on a consistent manner. Show me where I have shown disrespectful and vindictive. The link I gave are not car mags, but simple facts. A division of one company was not performing and that company decided to sell it. Sure there were other reasons but Wall Street demanded it. Again, you have no idea of what I do and my relationship with MB/Chrysler and you call me ignorant.
All I did was compare performance numbers of another car. Since when is this a sin?
Have you seen me state the CLS is better than the Viper. NOT. The bulk of the forum viper owners are too sensitive about protecting their beloved Viper.
Everyone has their own and you do not see me in this forum calling users names like trolls and telling people they are ignorant. Users like ViperJon have done it on a consistent manner. Show me where I have shown disrespectful and vindictive. The link I gave are not car mags, but simple facts. A division of one company was not performing and that company decided to sell it. Sure there were other reasons but Wall Street demanded it. Again, you have no idea of what I do and my relationship with MB/Chrysler and you call me ignorant.
All I did was compare performance numbers of another car. Since when is this a sin?
Have you seen me state the CLS is better than the Viper. NOT. The bulk of the forum viper owners are too sensitive about protecting their beloved Viper.
Again, you have no idea of what I do and my relationship with MB/Chrysler and you call me ignorant.
OK. Since you insist on continuing the Don Quixote routine, what do you do and what is your relationship with MB/Chrysler? Just curious.
OK. Since you insist on continuing the Don Quixote routine, what do you do and what is your relationship with MB/Chrysler? Just curious.
emericr
Enthusiast
Anyone can have a problem with their cars. That does not mean all the cars of that manufacturer are bad.
Again staying objective (I could call you ignorant but I will not), I will point you to the facts:
Porsche is 2nd, MB is 6th and Chrysler is dead LAST on the 2012 JD Powers reliability.
http://autos.jdpower.com/content/press-release-auto/Q5wPftR/2012-u-s-vehicle-dependability-study.htm
Will this stop me from buying a car I have a passion for (the Gen V), NO but let's be real.
Keep bringing it on guys
Again staying objective (I could call you ignorant but I will not), I will point you to the facts:
Porsche is 2nd, MB is 6th and Chrysler is dead LAST on the 2012 JD Powers reliability.
http://autos.jdpower.com/content/press-release-auto/Q5wPftR/2012-u-s-vehicle-dependability-study.htm
Will this stop me from buying a car I have a passion for (the Gen V), NO but let's be real.
Keep bringing it on guys
emericr
Enthusiast
Seriously, I may be dumb and stubborn like most of you think but I am not a fool.
What is the point? It does not matter what I say, most of you will spin it the wrong way.
Let's just say that I had personal knowledge thru friends of mine that work at MBUSA and Stuggart to understand the inside turmoil and the demise of the merger.
Don Quijote
What is the point? It does not matter what I say, most of you will spin it the wrong way.
Let's just say that I had personal knowledge thru friends of mine that work at MBUSA and Stuggart to understand the inside turmoil and the demise of the merger.
Don Quijote
I will make one last comment on this AMG vs Viper discussion. I have owned many cars I have drag raced (the E63 and my 09 Viper just to name two). I have joined car clubs and rented tracks out for the day from Atco to englishtown to wherever. I have to say pretty much anyone can get into an AMG automatic and run a good time. I once had 40 runs in one day in my E63 (which btw is posted on drag times) all separated by only .3 seconds. So yes i do believe anyone can get behind the wheel of an AMG and get the same numbers. A stick is WAY harder to drag..consistantly. You pretty much know after the first 60' how your 1320 is going to be. That being said the first time i went to NJMP with the local Viper club was my first experience around the track and it is a TOTALLY DIFFERENT BEAST GOING AROUND A TRACK THAN THE 1/4 MILE. Makes drag racing seem lame and boring. Now like i said in a previous post I will definitley make my way back into an AMG one day. The fun and speed driving an AMG 4 door is second to none compared to other 4 doors (yes, even the M5 IMO). Also, when i was part of the AMG clubs i never recall any AMG running 11.2 stock.
[ ] Win
[X] Spin
[X] Fail
Sir, let me refresh your mind for a moment:
Are you any relation to 1BADGTS?
Continue on....
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