Used market flood

PDCjonny

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Has everyone forgot the point of a forum? Express opinions and that is all they are after all. Opinions.
Everyone has their own and you do not see me in this forum calling users names like trolls and telling people they are ignorant. Users like ViperJon have done it on a consistent manner. Show me where I have shown disrespectful and vindictive. The link I gave are not car mags, but simple facts. A division of one company was not performing and that company decided to sell it. Sure there were other reasons but Wall Street demanded it. Again, you have no idea of what I do and my relationship with MB/Chrysler and you call me ignorant.
All I did was compare performance numbers of another car. Since when is this a sin?
Have you seen me state the CLS is better than the Viper. NOT. The bulk of the forum viper owners are too sensitive about protecting their beloved Viper.

That's the second time you mentioned me, I'm flattered to have a stalker.
Perhaps the problem is that when it's all said and done you have no intention of buying a Viper and probably never did.
You just want to debate it with Viper owners while casually mentioning the "other" cars you are "thinking" about.
Who the hell bases a car purchase on how they are treated on a car forum?
Only someone not serious about one.
 

emericr

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I come to a forum to get opinions from other people who have had Vipers. That is what it is for.
Until I can get my butt into one, I will not consider buying it. Some people can, I am not that type.
Again way to go insulting me stating that my existence on this forum is just to p_ss off viper owners and I had no intentions of buying one. My local dealer knows I am in as soon as they receive one and they are willing to sell one at MSRP.
The forum IMHO is not just a place where you get information. I have formed friendships in the previous other forums and I have stayed on them for years. Who's the stalker? I am not out there finding your posts and spewing venom at you. You are.

:popcorn:

That's the second time you mentioned me, I'm flattered to have a stalker.
Perhaps the problem is that when it's all said and done you have no intention of buying a Viper and probably never did.
You just want to debate it with Viper owners while casually mentioning the "other" cars you are "thinking" about.
Who the hell bases a car purchase on how they are treated on a car forum?
Only someone not serious about one.
 

emericr

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Allow me to interject.
As fast does not mean better but means equal and I used "or". I am leaving the benefit of the doubt until the snake is tested and proven. Meanwhile, I am still waiting for relatively stock numbers of any previous Gens doing 10s in the quarter.

[ ] Win
[X] Spin
[X] Fail

Sir, let me refresh your mind for a moment:



Are you any relation to 1BADGTS?
Continue on....:eater:
 

tbsviper

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As an owner of two Gen III I am following this with interest. Side discussion is also interesting but some take it too serious. Bill P. made me laugh and mricer don't be offended by his good sense of humor. He did apologize if you were offended and if you knew him as I do you would know it was in jest. You should also realize many on here own many cars, Viper just one, two or three. Heck, I have a 63 Corvette, two Jags, two BMWs, one M3, others and would have more but wife says we are running out of space. Viper Tony very funny.
 

emericr

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I believe I have been a good sport until this long list of personal attacks in this thread.
I have had a long list of sports cars as well (transams, corvettes, M-3, RS-4,997-S,C63) and I am happy to bury the hatchet if others are willing.
 

Bobpantax

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And what do you do?

I do not think that you are dumb and stubborn. I do think that your posts show a lack of experience in dealing with the simple male subculture banter that goes on here. It's harmless stuff by people pecking at a key board. You don't even know the posters. Why do you let what they say get to you? Just ignore the perceived slights and stick with substantive comments. You are not going to change how people feel about what you write. Over time, you will get a feel for the culture of this site and know what works and what does not. You do not seem to realize that it is you who has to make the effort to fit in - especially since you are not a Viper owner; have not paid any VCA dues, and you are asking for data to help you. Whether you realize it or not, by responding as you do, you are just feeding the beast. The hands stop clapping when you extract your hand from the clapping. JM2Cs.

Seriously, I may be dumb and stubborn like most of you think but I am not a fool.
What is the point? It does not matter what I say, most of you will spin it the wrong way.
Let's just say that I had personal knowledge thru friends of mine that work at MBUSA and Stuggart to understand the inside turmoil and the demise of the merger.

Don Quijote
 

madninjaskillz

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All of you are teaming up on my comments that there is a four door sedan that is as fast as Viper, I get called a troll and I should not take it personal??? Again no where in this thread have I bashed the Viper. I have even called it the king of the tracks.

Now, let the fire begin (and it should be dealt in another thread) but it is pathetic to see that you think it is Daimler who damaged Chrysler. Last time I checked, it is Daimler who shared technology with Chrysler (chassis and engine for the 300M and crossfire just to name a few) and Mercedes dumped it because it was not a viable business unit.

http://mba.tuck.dartmouth.edu/pdf/2002-1-0071.pdf Here's an excerpt:
Three years after merger DaimlerChrysler's market capitalization stands at $44 billion, roughly equal
to the value of Daimler-Benz before the merger13. Its stock has been banished from the S&P
500, and Chrysler Group's share value has declined by one-third relative to pre-merger
values. Unlike the Mercedes-Benz and Smart Car Division, which posted an operating profit
of EUR 830 million in Q3 2000, the Chrysler Group has been losing money at an alarming
rate. In the same quarter, it lost $512 million14.


From the same article:

"Distribution and retail sales systems had largely remained separate as well, owing generally
to brand bias. Mercedes-Benz dealers, in particular, had proven averse to including Chrysler
vehicles in their retail product offerings. The logic had been to protect the sanctity of the
Mercedes brand as a hallmark of uncompromising quality. This had certainly hindered the
Chrysler Group's market *********** in Europe, where market share remained stagnant at
2%. Potentially profitable vehicles such as the Dodge Neon and the Jeep Grand Cherokee
had been sidelined in favor of the less-cost-effective and troubled Mercedes A-Class
compact and M-Class SUV, respectively.
The A-Class, a 95 hp, 12 foot long compact with an MSRP of approximately $20,000,
competed in Europe against similar vehicles sold by Opel, Volkswagen, Renault and Fiat for
approximately $9,000-$16,000. Consumers who ordinarily would have paid a premium for
Mercedes' engineering and safety record had been disappointed by the A-Class -- which
failed an emergency maneuver test conducted by a Swedish television station in 1999.

A-Class appeared both overpriced and under-engineered for the highly competitive
European compact market. The Dodge Neon, in contrast, could have competed more
effectively in this segment with an approximate price of $13,000, similar mechanical
specifications, and a record of reliability. Brand bias, however, had prevented this scenario
from becoming reality."

Seems like Mercedes torpedoed the relationship and screwed Chrysler out of market share in Europe because they had a superiority complex. Good read though. Mistakes were made on both sides, and the unions were definitely overpaying their employees (Chrysler) and charging too much; as is typical with unions.
 

SnakeBitten

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A tuned and downpiped CLS [modded] vs a bonestock Viper? "My modded car will beat your stock car so there" lol. Gen IV's have hit 10's @ 130 mph bonestock in the right hands. I'd imagine the Gen V to be faster for more people with the launch control function so you may have to eat your words.

How does emericr know what the new Viper will run when the figures haven't been released yet? How worse will it be for the CLS if the a Gen IV or V is similarly modded? This has been a silly thread derail.
 

emericr

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Good and valid points you are making.
I am probably dealing with higher testoterone individuals than other forums since they are Viper owners. Never thought of it that way.
I am fully aware I am feeding the beast but I would have thought they had a thicker skin and would not get offended by a mere comment of stating that a tune only car *** was as fast as a gen V.
Regarding what I do, I am the CFO for a company owned by a very well off individual and thru him, I was able to encounter people that have a second home here that are CEOs or high positions individuals of other large public companies.

And what do you do?

I do not think that you are dumb and stubborn. I do think that your posts show a lack of experience in dealing with the simple male subculture banter that goes on here. It's harmless stuff by people pecking at a key board. You don't even know the posters. Why do you let what they say get to you? Just ignore the perceived slights and stick with substantive comments. You are not going to change how people feel about what you write. Over time, you will get a feel for the culture of this site and know what works and what does not. You do not seem to realize that it is you who has to make the effort to fit in - especially since you are not a Viper owner; have not paid any VCA dues, and you are asking for data to help you. Whether you realize it or not, by responding as you do, you are just feeding the beast. The hands stop clapping when you extract your hand from the clapping. JM2Cs.
 

emericr

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Mine's bigger than yours theory. That will lead us somewhere...
I brought proven facts to the table thru dragtimes.com. The quickest stock vipers documented thru dragtimes is 10.9s (with most of them without a negative DA beings in the low 11s) and the tune/downpipe CLS is same.
I had a N/A C63 and I know that it is very difficult to get substantial more hp with leaving the car relatively stock so that is reason why I am comparing it to stock Vipers. Even with comparable mods, the Viper times are similar to the CLS and it becomes a driver's race.

A tuned and downpiped CLS [modded] vs a bonestock Viper? "My modded car will beat your stock car so there" lol. Gen IV's have hit 10's @ 130 mph bonestock in the right hands. I'd imagine the Gen V to be faster for more people with the launch control function so you may have to eat your words.

How does emericr know what the new Viper will run when the figures haven't been released yet? How worse will it be for the CLS if the a Gen IV or V is similarly modded? This has been a silly thread derail.
 

emericr

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Constructive comment and overall conclusion that I totally agree with. Mistakes were made from both sides.

Seems like Mercedes torpedoed the relationship and screwed Chrysler out of market share in Europe because they had a superiority complex. Good read though. Mistakes were made on both sides, and the unions were definitely overpaying their employees (Chrysler) and charging too much; as is typical with unions.
 

plumcrazy

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i cant believe how poorly some of you guys are treating this nice young man. you should be ashamed of yourselves.
 

SnakeBitten

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Mine's bigger than yours theory. That will lead us somewhere...

Hilarious. You are the one that inserted this ignorant theory into a thread that had nothing to do with your modded Benz. It's a huge stretch to go from the thread title subject to now detailing it with your desire to let all know how fast a modded CLS is. Your motives seem suspect to me and I'm not a Viper owner.

Again. How do you know what times the gen v will run? Does it really matter if a modded CLS is as fast or faster? Did the path you took this thread down accomplish anything of value?
 

Policy Limits

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This would be my 1st viper with the gen V purchase. In seeing some of the pre-owned lists, depreciation seems to be a concern. I even saw a launch edition 5-6 years old on dupont registry that appeared to have lost 50% value in around 60 months. unfortunately I'm an exotic car enthusiast at any cost. I've found that even my Lamborghini and my Bentley depreciated; The Bentley is a limited edition called a diamond series, one of only 400 made and you'd think it would matter more in terms of retaining value but it doesnt. At least original msrp isnt 1/4 mill on the viper like it is on the other exotics I usually go for, so the hit wont be as bad.
 

tbsviper

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This would be my 1st viper. At least original msrp isnt 1/4 mill on the viper like it is on the other exotics I usually go for, so the hit wont be as bad.
Agree but may I offer some advice. You will like your first Viper so much before you know it you will have more than one so 1/4-1/2 mil is quite possible. Joking aside, you have mighty fine taste!
 

Policy Limits

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y thank you. OH huh? I actually purchased my Lamborghini from Marysville. But yeah, I can actually see getting more than one snake if i like it because the convertible model should follow this 1st production year ;)
 

ViperTony

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Good and valid points you are making.
I am probably dealing with higher testoterone individuals than other forums since they are Viper owners. Never thought of it that way.
I am fully aware I am feeding the beast but I would have thought they had a thicker skin and would not get offended by a mere comment of stating that a tune only car *** was as fast as a gen V.
Regarding what I do, I am the CFO for a company owned by a very well off individual and thru him, I was able to encounter people that have a second home here that are CEOs or high positions individuals of other large public companies.

There's vast information available on this site, particularly in the SRT/GenIII and GenII forums over the years on performance, comparisons to other makes, models, debates, etc. Do some research, check out what other Viper owners have put down on the strip in their Vipers and/or other cars and mods, tunes, etc. done to them. The arguments of which is faster, bigger, better has been had time and again for over 11 years on this site. It's just ******* up a rope expecting something profound to be revealed. There are plenty of thick-skinned Viper owners here. But it would appear that it's you who does not have the thick skin and have been offended. You shouldn't be. It's just a debate over cars.

But be honest, you stated that the CLS63 was not only as fast but faster than the GenV. You opened that can of worms here, LOL. You were called out on it. What did you expect would happen? LOL.

This isn't the executive board wash room....it's a Viper forum. Viper owners are unique and yes most often match the characteristics of their Viper. :D As an executive, don't feel as if you need to fit in with other executives by driving a Mercedes. I didn't. While my colleagues on the board yearned over their Mercedes, BMW's, Audi's....I bought my GenII to the table. Much as you may be getting ribbed here, I got ribbed back then too...until I spanked the piss out of them or was able to hang with them in Mexico. I'm sure you'll gain some respect behind your claim that the CLS63 is fast or faster than the GenV when you get a chance to prove it.

In the meantime, lighten up Francis. It's just a car forum.
 

v10enomous

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Let's tie both topics together... I like the CLS63 and some of the AMG cars but no matter how many Vipers are for sale a Viper will never depreciate like the high end Merc's do.
 

SLViper

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I'm sure the used car market will get flooded ........**, Sorry to highjack this CLS 63 thread !

How Do you define Market Flood? With Only 25,000 Vipers built over 20 years what is this Flood going to look like? I have driven the GenV and it is sweet! But it is also a more refined ride My wife drove it as well and she felt at ease.(this has not been the case with any of our previous Vipers! Many of the New GenV sales will be first time Viper buyers not all move up Viper Owners. Also with renewed interest in the new Viper wil no doubt create some first time buyers of the previous Generations as many will not be looking to spend the 100K +.
 

ViperTony

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How Do you define Market Flood? With Only 25,000 Vipers built over 20 years what is this Flood going to look like? I have driven the GenV and it is sweet! But it is also a more refined ride My wife drove it as well and she felt at ease.(this has not been the case with any of our previous Vipers! Many of the New GenV sales will be first time Viper buyers not all move up Viper Owners. Also with renewed interest in the new Viper wil no doubt create some first time buyers of the previous Generations as many will not be looking to spend the 100K +.

I supposed a flood may mean, to some, that instead of seeing typically 100 vipers for sale on ebay, there may be 300 hundred listed all of a sudden. Definitely a difference between a flood of Corvettes vs. Vipers in terms of numbers. I don't see many current GenIV owners ditching their Vipers for the GenV anytime soon especially if a refined GenV is not appealing to them. I do believe there are current pre-GenIV Viper owners hoping for a 'flood' of GenIV's on the market on the cheap. No matter what happens folks will want to buy low, sell high and complain if Vipers are not selling as high as they think they should. Same stuff, different year.
 

v10enomous

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There are 348 vipers currently on the market just on one online classified site. 1,242 corvettes on the same site.
 

Bobpantax

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They are not relly offended. They just enjoy busting b**ls on occasion. LOL.

Good and valid points you are making.
I am probably dealing with higher testoterone individuals than other forums since they are Viper owners. Never thought of it that way.
I am fully aware I am feeding the beast but I would have thought they had a thicker skin and would not get offended by a mere comment of stating that a tune only car *** was as fast as a gen V.
Regarding what I do, I am the CFO for a company owned by a very well off individual and thru him, I was able to encounter people that have a second home here that are CEOs or high positions individuals of other large public companies.
 

emericr

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I guess I will not bite on this other than saying this is so far from the truth like me saying stock for stock an SLS BS has higher performance than a Gen V.

Let's tie both topics together... I like the CLS63 and some of the AMG cars but no matter how many Vipers are for sale a Viper will never depreciate like the high end Merc's do.
 

sun diego

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Flood. Interesting word. How many Vipers were flooded by Sandy, written off, and the owners have checks in hand to buy another? Any guesses? Will that tighten the market.
 

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