Viper to be canceled and new Viper to come in 2012

[TAXIMAN1]

That 500th of 500 2010 will be the last Viper, IMHO.

Many believe the last Viper was built in 2002... Not saying I agree or disagree. Obviously a new "SRT branded" Viper will blow the doors off a GTS, in every (performance) category. But that clamshell hood style, is what made me buy my first Viper. And to this day (after OWNING 7 vipers) I still have that jaw dropped expression, when I pass one on the highway.

I don't think they will ever be able to reinvent the Viper... To many govt restrictions on costs,emissions,etc,etc. I hope I'm wrong. I really do...

 

[slaughterj]

Geez, what a bunch of whiny pansies. Hope you don't blow out your knees from jerking them so fast.

 

[FastestBusaAround]

I believe like many others here, that the 2010 may well be the last TRUE Viper. Though I have an '08 Roadster, I'm toying with the idea of buying the '10 and just putting it away in favor of driving the '08. Maybe in 20+ yrs or so, I'll run it through Mecum or Barret Jackson with 0 miles and see what it does. I certainly don't need 2 Gen IV's to drive. I doubt the 500 they produce will be more special than badging, as costs woud certainly be too prohibitive to justify anything more than that. More likely that they'll all be ACR's with cute stripes just to get rid of the parts...

 

[1BADGTS]

REMEMBER R&D on the GEN 5 was done years ago as it takes 3-5 years to complete this process.Fiat may tweak this somewhat but its not starting from scratch

 

[Bobpantax]

Gee, funny how folks forgot a timetable almost 4-5 years old that spoke of a new Viper sometime in 2011 or 2012. So the clairvoyance is coming true and the forgetful are preaching doom again. If you really like your car, and I mean really, then get on the bandwagon and thank Chrysler and quit all the negative crap. This is the Viper Club , not the " The Sky is Falling " Club , and after all the positives, it is time to realize ,amazingly, the timetable is still there as it has always been. The change is mandated by government regs, so SRT has known for years things had to change , and they will. Don't be surprised if you see a lighter, smaller, dual overhead cam V10 somewhere in your future and don't even begin to think that with Ralph at the helm it will lose it's integrity.

2010s will be the most special Vipers built to date, but don't read too much into it, as they will not be an identical 500. Expect some surprises , but figure the entire line will be unique, and many will be in short supply.

Hey Bill. Interesting post. I noticed that your Viper inventory is almost nonexistent compared with your historical Viper inventory. Isn't the most important way for a dealer to be positive and support the Viper, as opposed to being negative, to order Vipers for sale to the public? Some of us may be ******** and moaning a bit in our posts but we still love the Viper and some of us own more than one. What is the excuse of all of those dealers who did not place enough orders for the 2010 Viper to keep the car alive through 2011?

 

[Dustman]

.......... in 2012 there will BE no Chrysler/Dodge any more - just look at the latest 30 % downfall in sales compared to 2008

3 more years......... a LOOONG time to go and no product to sell anyone really wants (regular vehicle line-up that is, not referring to the Viper of course).... sad BUT true

 

[09 Venom]

Hey Bill. Interesting post. I noticed that your Viper inventory is almost nonexistent compared with your historical Viper inventory. Isn't the most important way for a dealer to be positive and support the Viper, as opposed to being negative, to order Vipers for sale to the public? Some of us may be ******** and moaning a bit in our posts but we still love the Viper and some of us own more than one. What is the excuse of all of those dealers who did not place enough orders for the 2010 Viper to keep the car alive through 2011?

Funny you mention that about dealers. Went to visit Buhler dodge and it is now a Mitsubishi dealer The only Vipers they have left are in their Ford showroom...way in the back. If this is not writing on the wall...what is!!

 

[Smog Dog]

Isn't the most important way for a dealer to be positive and support the Viper, as opposed to being negative, to order Vipers for sale to the public? Some of us may be ******** and moaning a bit in our posts but we still love the Viper and some of us own more than one. What is the excuse of all of those dealers who did not place enough orders for the 2010 Viper to keep the car alive through 2011?

The problem is a lack of customer demand for the car. Too many were built and could not be sold----so you get employee pricing plus 20K. Not good for anyone but the guy who steals the car. There are still plenty to go around, and I'll bet 09 production is less than half of 08. I think a lot of dealers got burned, and are in no rush to floor plan a car they don't think they can sell. They are in business to make money, not support the Viper.

 

[Cop Magnet]

First off, the negativity is not coming from thin air, we have been back and forth on the survival of the Viper for some time. People get tired of bad news, it's a relative broken record with the Viper. Still, we don't know enough details to cry in our beers.

Secondly, nothing wrong with Ferrari input on a Viper product. Also does not mean the new Viper will be ridiculously priced. Look at it this way, hardly anyone can afford a new Ferrari these days. They have priced themselves out of existence. What they need: an entry level model. What could be more perfect than a $100k basic, raw, V-10 little brother to their exotic V-12's??? So Ferrari may have a huge incentive to keep it real. They need that more than they need $1.5m supercars in this day and age.

Third, 500 cars for 2010 is not that little. A total of 1579 Vipers were built in 2008, and many did not sell for a long time. 500 is a reasonable number.

Fourth, yeah I agree this announcement kills interest in the 2008/2009's that are still out there. Bad move until the product inventory is almost completely depleted. Corporate is not doing the dealers any favors. But that is the way of all automotive marketing: planned obsolecense. The Gen IV is a great car, but the bar has been raised for 2010. That's the way it always goes.

Fifth, dealers would not build up inventory if there aren't the sales to support them, so don't blame Bill P. He's only the middleman doing what you guys want, sales-wise. Buy them and they will come...

 

[SkyBob]

deleted my own message

 

[PatentLaw]

Wow.....just wow. If this message was sent to the Viper Club 5 years ago, people would be up in arms.

I guess anything is acceptable now.

Fact.....they are discontinuing the car.
Fact.....this is a car club about....well.....the car. Not about Chrysler. Not about Dodge. Not about Fiat.
It is not about "who is in charge now" or "what is going to happen to the last 500 cars" or if "someone is a decision maker". Seems to me the "decision" has been made. Great decision. Lets all give applause for the end of the car. Yeah!!!!!! Sorry, but pictures of what a model "may" look like don't cut it for me.

It is really funny to see the crap on this website about anti-lock brakes or not, computer controlled suspensions or not, nannies or not......but when it comes to cancelling the whole thing....that is ok. Nobody has the guts to say it like it is, for fear of offending a car company? Shouldn't it be the other way around?


The company treated their star clients like garbage by Viper taxing us to death on parts. They treated some of their well known dealers like crap, ones that have been in business a 100 years. I am not scared to tell it like it is, because I AM THE ONE WHO BUYS THEIR PRODUCT. WE RUN THE SHOW. YOU DON'T PRODUCE THE CAR, WE GO ELSEWHERE WITH ALL OUR MONEY.

And you guys/gals find this acceptable?

People bust on the Corvette owners all the time here. If they cancelled the Corvette, what do you think would happen? Would the Corvette owners just shut up and let that happen? No way in heck.

Viper owners just roll over and die. Embarrasing.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

It's all a matter of interpretation: You say it is canceled, and most (including myself) say you are very, very wrong. The current model is slated to end in 2010. As the owner of one previous Gen III ('03) and one current Gen III ('05), it is sad to see that version end. Especially the ACR, which I personally think is going to be very hard to top - both in looks and performance.

Sad to be sure, but rolling over and dying? Hardly. We are simply avoiding hysterics about a model version whose time has come to an end and are looking forward to the possibilities that lay ahead for the next one.

 

[1BADGTS]

Funny you mention that about dealers. Went to visit Buhler dodge and it is now a Mitsubishi dealer The only Vipers they have left are in their Ford showroom...way in the back. If this is not writing on the wall...what is!!

YOU KEEP POSTING THE ABOVE AND YOUR REASONING IS NOT CORRECT both myself and ex VCA PRES Joe Houss have told you this but it still has not sunk in (if it were true i think i would know since i was in Darren Buhlers wedding ).The Buhlers are as hot on the Viper as EVER.

 

[usaf0016]

Viper roadster first came out in 1992 and GTS coupe came out in 1996. Production stopped in 2002 with the gen 1/2.

Viper re introduced in 2003 with roadster, three years later coupe came out. production will stop in 2010.

It seems like sort of a pattern. Wait and see. In my guess, the 2012 will be a roadster, and a few years later, we will see a coupe.

 

[RPHJR]

The problem is a lack of customer demand for the car. Too many were built and could not be sold----so you get employee pricing plus 20K. Not good for anyone but the guy who steals the car. There are still plenty to go around, and I'll bet 09 production is less than half of 08. I think a lot of dealers got burned, and are in no rush to floor plan a car they don't think they can sell. They are in business to make money, not support the Viper.

could not have said it, any better... And because of the employee pricing+ fiasco. People sitting on the sidelines, now expect a $95k MSRP Viper, for 20-30k off MSRP. Or they arent buying. This is not a "must have" car for anyone.. Buyers will let the market come to them, not chase it, by running out and buying a new car today.

 

[Joseph Houss]

YOU KEEP POSTING THE ABOVE AND YOUR REASONING IS NOT CORRECT both myself and ex VCA PRES Joe Houss have told you this but it still has not sunk in (if it were true i think i would know since i was in Darren Buhlers wedding ).The Buhlers are as hot on the Viper as EVER.

Joe (1badgts) is SO right on this one! Once again, the Buhler family is passionate about the VIPER and all performance cars. The showroom you keep on referring to is HUGE!!!!! and he displays both blue oval AND DODGE products within the showroom. Their NEW venture needs room as well, and the old Pontiac showroom was elected for the task (yes, that was a Pontiac showroom, and was only used as an additional area for Vipers for a short run when he had over a DOZEN Vipers to store under roof).

The picture on his site shows exactly where these babies are displayed (not in the "Pontiac building"):

 

[Joseph Houss]

Hey Bill. Interesting post. I noticed that your Viper inventory is almost nonexistent compared with your historical Viper inventory. Isn't the most important way for a dealer to be positive and support the Viper, as opposed to being negative, to order Vipers for sale to the public? Some of us may be ******** and moaning a bit in our posts but we still love the Viper and some of us own more than one. What is the excuse of all of those dealers who did not place enough orders for the 2010 Viper to keep the car alive through 2011?

Bill, maybe you can confirm, but considering the rather sparse build of units at Connor... isn't it possible that Bill has 'em sold prior to him taking delivery? There's no time for inventory when they're moving out faster than they're movin' in.

 

[Sellshomesdrivesviper]

Joe (1badgts) is SO right on this one! Once again, the Buhler family is passionate about the VIPER and all performance cars. The showroom you keep on referring to is HUGE!!!!! and he displays both blue oval AND DODGE products within the showroom. Their NEW venture needs room as well, and the old Pontiac showroom was elected for the task (yes, that was a Pontiac showroom, and was only used as an additional area for Vipers for a short run when he had over a DOZEN Vipers to store under roof).

The picture on his site shows exactly where these babies are displayed (not in the "Pontiac building"):

When was this photo taken?
Take one today and you might not find a single new Viper at least as per their website.

 

[JKVIPER]

I don't get all the negativity. The country is in the most severe recession since 1930, both GM filed for Bankruptcy and Chrysler was insolvent and had to be purchased after being neglected by Mercedes.

So now the task of rebuilding Chrylser and Dodge is underway. They need Fiat's help in modernizing the whole product line-up. A small niche car like the Viper probably brings very little to the bottom line.

But despite this, the new President of Dodge announces the current car will wind down. Given the economy, 500 cars is about right for the demand and a new car is now in the works. So between 500 new cars, and plenty of low mileage used cars there are enough cars around for people who want to own and experience the Viper.

Give the company a break, with the Ferrari parts bin at hand, and some passionate people at Dodge. My guess is they will build something exciting. Sure no, detail yet.

For Ralph to make a statement that a new Viper is in the works is nothing but good news.

Enjoy your current cars, and a 2 year wait is really no big deal.

 

[ViperGeorge]

I guess it is pretty easy to sit here and bemoan the end of the Gen 4. It was the same reaction I had after Dodge replaced the Gen 2 with the Gen 3. I thought "it won't be as good, it doesn't look as cool, etc." However the Gen 3 was so much better a car than the Gen 2 in virtually every respect(some may say not in styling, although I now prefer the meaner angled look of the Gen 3/4; and Lord the ACR is hot). Given the history and given who is at the helm at Dodge and given the passion of the SRT crew (who continue to do crazy things like stuff V10s into Challengers and race prototype cars in events like the Cannonball), I've now concluded that it is in fact time for optimism.

Ralph auctioned off some concept prints for a Gen 5 Viper at the NE Regional event at Pocono which I was lucky enough to win. They were designs that didn't make the cut but they showed the car as being radical, an in your face take no prisoners kind of radical. Some may look at them and not like them (they are posted on this site by the way) but they do show that Dodge was working on a Gen 5 for years and they show that Dodge wanted to make the car stand out as it always has. I believe that Fiat will allow Dodge to build a Gen 5, they seem to get the rationale for having high performance halo cars and I don't think they are the least worried that the Viper will erode sales of Ferrari, Maserrati, or any of their other brands.

However, I believe that our club needs to take action to give Ralph the ammunition he needs to ensure the continued survival of the Viper. Dodge is after all in it to make money. We should reiterate our passion for the car and how it has caused us to buy other Chrysler products. Ralph knows we're passionate but does he know exactly how many Chrysler products we all own? Or how much money we spend with Chrysler? While I know that our officers are speaking directly to Dodge I think now would be a good time to give Ralph updated stats on our total ownership of Chrysler products as well as the collective views of our total membership in terms of what we would like to see in the next car. This is something that our club can and should do.

 

[Newport Viper]

Well let's hope Fiat's redesign isn't anything like this..... if it is...I'm getting a scooter.

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[Paul Hawker]

The answer to this controversy could be pretty simple.

Dodge/Fiat have decided to end production of the current model, and make a final run of 500 special cars for the Viper faithful.

They probably have already much work done on the next generation of Viper, however they need to see what is going to happen with the Fiat/UAW/Government ownership, and stop and take a fresh look at how the current changes in the marketplace should effect the final design of the next generation Viper.

Not sure so much drama is called for. The Viper community is being well provided for, with a current supply of cars. I would feel more sorry for the fantastic work team that is most likely being laid off due to the slower demand for Vipers.

I am pretty sure if we would have bought more, they would have made more...

 

[1BADGTS]

When was this photo taken?
Take one today and you might not find a single new Viper at least as per their website.

Your making this statement from FLORIDA .Have you personally EVER been to Buhler? .I can tell you right now Buhler has Vipers AVAILABLE so your assumption is not correct .

 

[Sellshomesdrivesviper]

Your making this statement from FLORIDA .Have you personally EVER been to Buhler? .I can tell you right now Buhler has Vipers AVAILABLE so your assumption is not correct .

Thanks, then have him update his website.

 

[Brian GTS]

With Ralph in the position he now holds, I have a great amount of faith in the Gen V!!! Sure, there are questions about the direction the car is going to take with new ownership and government restrictions. But, I think there are more reasons than not to be optimisic about the car's future.

The company realizes that there are many of us (including myself) that are loyal to purchasing Chrysler products because of the Viper. And with Ralph operating Dodge, I think we're in a position to be optimistic.

I see it as no big deal that they are stopping production for one model year. Did the same in 2007 and we ended up with 600HP!!!

Now bring back those Gen I/II curves.

 

[Joseph Houss]

When was this photo taken?
Take one today and you might not find a single new Viper at least as per their website.

So what you're saying is that it's not good that they sold MOST of their dozen+ 08 and 09 Vipers as quick as possible? They sold over a dozen Vipers in one of the worst economies. Why? Because they always aim to please!

Are you looking at the buhlerviper.com website? As I see:

White/Viper blue stripe roadster - NEW and available

Venom Red with Saddle Interior Coupe - LOW, LOW miles

A few used and consigned Viper as well

Can't order 2010's until ordering opens up

 

[Sellshomesdrivesviper]

So what you're saying is that it's not good that they sold MOST of their dozen+ 08 and 09 Vipers as quick as possible? They sold over a dozen Vipers in one of the worst economies. Why? Because they always aim to please!

Are you looking at the buhlerviper.com website? As I see:

White/Viper blue stripe roadster - NEW and available

Venom Red with Saddle Interior Coupe - LOW, LOW miles

A few used and consigned Viper as well

Can't order 2010's until ordering opens up

I'm sorry Joe, but I have nothing but admiration for Darren, his operation and reputation and would have no problem buying my next Viper from him.

You showed us a photo of a room full of Vipers, so I was interested enough to check out his website to see what he had available and only saw one (1) new Viper.
The websites were BuhlerDodge.com and Buhlerdodge.net.

 

[09 Venom]

YOU KEEP POSTING THE ABOVE AND YOUR REASONING IS NOT CORRECT both myself and ex VCA PRES Joe Houss have told you this but it still has not sunk in (if it were true i think i would know since i was in Darren Buhlers wedding ).The Buhlers are as hot on the Viper as EVER.

Joe, I am a straight shooter and even if my reasoning is incorrect..and it may well be...my eyes are not. They only have 3 Vipers in inventory, none slated for delivery and with the current model ending...who knows. Believe me, I will be the first one to call Bob up for the next GenV, if there is one but there is no shred of evidence , seen or heard, that proves me wrong.

 

[09 Venom]

Joe (1badgts) is SO right on this one! Once again, the Buhler family is passionate about the VIPER and all performance cars. The showroom you keep on referring to is HUGE!!!!! and he displays both blue oval AND DODGE products within the showroom. Their NEW venture needs room as well, and the old Pontiac showroom was elected for the task (yes, that was a Pontiac showroom, and was only used as an additional area for Vipers for a short run when he had over a DOZEN Vipers to store under roof).

The picture on his site shows exactly where these babies are displayed (not in the "Pontiac building"):

Never questioned their passion! And it has nothing to do with Darren or Bob what so ever.It's just that if one of the countries largest Viper dealers showrooms looks like it does (and it doesn't look like the picture above,at least not as of three weeks ago) To me, it doesn't look like a good sign. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Coloviper]

Seems to me that all Ralph has expressed is that Viper production of GEN IV will be cut off early and then we wait a year for a new Viper. Production stopped in 2010 to protect the value of current owners of GEN IVs as too many cars with little development will decrease the values too much. 2012 will be interesting. Each GEN has it's own presence and value.

Hey the fact they are even talking about it is great news. I am skeptical of a future car but willing to give the benefit of the doubt.