Gr-8 IF A good drag racer is running 11.7 in 77 degree weather on a cold night that track(MILAN ) with Smith or Furman is an EASY low 11 second pass.On ANY given Viper event i have ever been at Smith or Furman SAME DAY are EASILY 4 tenths or more faster than ANYONE at the event CAR FOR CAR..Mind you some of those events had 100 Vipers there.
Viper vs. Z06 1/4 mile time question
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Gr-8 IF A good drag racer is running 11.7 in 77 degree weather on a cold night that track(MILAN ) with Smith or Furman is an EASY low 11 second pass.On ANY given Viper event i have ever been at Smith or Furman SAME DAY are EASILY 4 tenths or more faster than ANYONE at the event CAR FOR CAR..Mind you some of those events had 100 Vipers there.
Here are the altitudes (in ft) for all the tracks mentioned (in order). I was incorrect as there are 3 that are at higher elevations (in comparison but not really high altitude). But all the higher altitude tracks are high on the list.
92 Mir Raceway Budds Creek Md
92 Maryland International Raceway, Budds Creek, MD
97 Atco Raceway
50 HRP
97 Atco
23 Moroso Motorsprts Park, Florida
92 Maryland International Raceway
122 Capitol Raceway
16 State capitol raceway
112 New England Dragway
23 Moroso motorsports park South Florida
98 Sacramento Raceway
940 Mid-Michigan Motorplex
646 Byron Dragway, IL
92 Maryland International raceway
1160 California Speedway
50 Houston Raceway Park
92 Maryland International Raceway
23 Palm beach Intl. raceway
330 Cecil County Dragway, MD
All I know is I have seen very few street tire cars ever break into the 11's at that track. An 11.7 is quite good there.
I did an internet search and this is the only C6Z06 stock posting that I could locate (and I am not spending all night looking for them). It is pretty indicative of what I have observed.:
Marty Padgett's blog: Corvette Z06: It's a Great Country - The Car Connection
Englishtown looks like 61 ft. This is all using Google Earth (pretty darn accurate)
If i get another Gen 4 what i will try to do is have Smith in good power weather( nice prepped track) TRY to get into the 10s ALL stock.The problem is as an owner you almost want to cry because it REALLY beats the Hell out of the car to do so .
In summary, and with no negative thoughts, altitude is important. So when someone asks what a car should be capable of doing, with an assumption that they are speaking of in their area, the numbers provided should be adjusted accordingly. I know of several programs that will calculate the adjusted amounts. Poor guys in Denver must rack their brains out trying to figure out how to get an 11 second pass as a good day might by a DA of 4000 ft.
For my area an 11.5 is a great time. And 11.3 would be spectacular. I wish I had the VOI results here. I am sure most were in the 12's and 13's. I know the fastest was a friend who was running a twin turbo Gen II and was right about 11.29 seconds. The post from VOI is here http://forums.viperclub.org/voi-10-detroit-august-27-31-2008/617945-1-4-times-milan.html
Excuse me but I now recall he placed 2nd (or maybe 3rd) He got a trophy for it.
For my area an 11.5 is a great time. And 11.3 would be spectacular. I wish I had the VOI results here. I am sure most were in the 12's and 13's. I know the fastest was a friend who was running a twin turbo Gen II and was right about 11.29 seconds. The post from VOI is here http://forums.viperclub.org/voi-10-detroit-august-27-31-2008/617945-1-4-times-milan.html
Excuse me but I now recall he placed 2nd (or maybe 3rd) He got a trophy for it.
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Honestly I could not do it. I have tracked my Gen III several times but am always very careful to not break at launch or shifts (mine is supercharged) as I use Sport Cups and Kumhos. Conversely I have autocrossed it numerous times (won our region 3 years running) and take it to the road track every year as well. It is really not meant for drags they way it is set up and I do not want to put driveline parts into it.
EXACTLY alot of the guys i raced with used to run slicks.(Car is just not meant to drag esp with those things)Everytime we went who had to get flatbedded home (halfshafts gears trannys ect )as you said all driveline part related.
You are not going to win any arguments with some of the narrow minded ignorant people that frequent this site. Just let it be. It amazes me how many people here have blinders over their eyes...and even when someone takes them off, they fight back to put them back on... LOL! If you question the ol' mighty Viper you are going to get stoned. If you question the Viper and mention the Z06, you will get stoned and then stoned again.
Nine Ball
Enthusiast
As I posted, my 100% stock '09 Z06 went 11.55 @ 125 with a weak 2.1 60' also. The track wasn't hooking, so I had to roll out on the throttle and feather the clutch. Weather wasn't that great, around mid-60s that day. This was at Lone Star Raceway (Hennessey's track) on a private track rental. My first pass was a spinning 12.0, and I knocked about a tenth off on each consecutive pass while I got used to the car. I'm certain the car will easily go 11.3s at a better hooking track and some negative DA weather. Probably see 127 traps also. I plan to find out when I get the chance at such conditions.
Just to be fair, I do not consider myself an average driver. I've logged well over 1,000 passes in the last few years. I've won numerous bracket events, and all of my cars have been manual tranny cars making far more power than a stock Z06 or Viper. I've set quite a few records in the LS1 6-speed world. I'd gladly line up with any of the 6-speed drivers mentioned in this thread on the same day, same track, same car. That would be fun.
Tony
Hey wait! I won't doubt that you can get it in the 11's I was doubting more like the 10's bone stock. I don't trust mags to much because about 10 years ago when I built my Charger I had a 511 inch hemi with an auto that ran a best of 8.34 at a popular hot rod event. They asked me for a shoot later in the day and they took a whole second off when it went to print. My friends and I got a big laugh out of it. It looked like a low seven machine but was not.
Kenny though you have alot of experiance with the HEMI cars its an entire ball game with stock tires (A buddy of mine Kenny Miele holds 2 NHRA records in his Hemi Eliminator .He also writes for Mopar Perf Mag and will be the first to tell you they are different animals )The above being said research Jamie Furman or Evan Smith.Flat out they are two of the best drivers in the COUNTRY on stock tires.I personally was at the Super Chevy test when Smith ran the 11.5 .The test was conducted in near 100 degree weather (running into a headwind)In the Z06 Furman is BETTER than Smith because he has a ton more seat time.Though i did not personally witness Jamies 10 second run (MANY people have and if you research it its a documentated fact )after racing with him for years there is not a doubt in my mind it was done.Over the years i have attended a few Viper events with these guys .At Englishtown NJ (Mopar Atl Nat championships )for example 100 Viper showed up certain years to race.Running stock tires ,car for car Furman or Smith were AT least half a second faster than ANYONE out there and with that amount of cars their were some good drivers.Smith in a bone STOCK GEN 2 VIPER (450 HP )HAS TURNED 11.7(look it up its a published record )Furman in the same car has run 11.5.Anyone who knows cars will tell you a new Z06 will eat a Gen 2 Viper alive at the drag strip.
Fair enough!
Speedfreak
Viper Owner
Nine Ball, with all due respect I find this very hard to believe. I would need to see a time slip or witness this to believe it. You clearly are a skilled driver but physics are physics. You either have the strongest stock z06 on record or the car has been modded.
For ****s and giggles I got on dragtimes.com and calculated the approximate DA at your track for this run. It appears to be around 700 feet (278 feet altitude, 65 degrees, 40% humidity). It so happens I was at my Florida track racing my viper tonight. The DA there was about 850 feet (21 feet altitude, 71 degrees, 73% humidity) pretty close for comparison. I raced last wednesday too when the density altitude was -1000 feet and the conditions were incredible. This week my car trapped 119. Last week it trapped 122-123. That is a 30-40 HP difference to the rear wheels or almost 9%. If I am to believe your Z is stock then that means at 3300 lbs race weight (3100 plus driver approximate) the car is laying down 510-515 HP to the rear wheels in the same conditions my car is laying down about 455 HP to the rear wheels (I also weighed my car before racing tonight it was 3565 lbs. w/driver). Sorry, but I am just not buying it. With 15% parasitic added back in that means this stock Z is making over 590 HP at the flywheel with a DA of 700 feet. Sorry, I get off the Z train here. One thing that isn't disputed is the average rear wheel HP of Vipers and Z's and they sure as hell aren't 60HP apart. My car would be very typical for a stock viper and most of the dyno runs I have seen on Zs are 445-460 also. Taken one step further that means if we add another 9% for the outstanding conditions I saw last week your z is going to make 561 HP at the wheels and 645 at the flywheel and trap 131 in the quarter. A stock Z doing this, no way. I watched a Z last week in those unbelievable conditions trap 130, but it had headers, exhaust, intake, cam and drag radials.
So if we apply all of this to number 19 on the list running at my track which I know pretty well and doesn't have traction problems (I ran 5 1.84-1.86 short times tonight on run flats) this guy, whoever he is, I don't believe is running a stock Z with that e.t, trap speed, and short time.
By the way, I like your old muscle selections. I have two my self 69 427/435HP Vette Roadster and 68 Firebird Convertible with a 468ci/530HP both 4 speeds.
This thread reminds me of my old street racing days. Bring out your best poker face when you negotiate. Okay I've got a 2000 GTS it's "boned" stock, you know everone says they're the slowest. Those Z-06's run 10's all day long, just read it on the net. I want 10 and the go!
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If you break out the Super Chevy test of a stock Z06 back in 2007 you will see 9 BALLS run is totally believeable as Smith ran an 11.5 actually was like an 11.49 yet trapped only around 125.8The horsepower conditions that day (near 100 degrees temp,a 12 mph gusting headwind )made for the WORST power day of the year on their weather horsepower computer indicators.
Speedfreak
Viper Owner
SHOW ME the 2.10 short time. I am sure smith ran a 1.8 or in the ball park. Here I am supposed to believe nine ball gave and #19 gave up 3 tenths in short and still managed an 11.55. By conventional wisdom that is giving up 6 tenths on the other end.
Nine Ball
Enthusiast
Here is my thread about it. As for witnesses, S.W. from Austin and Hennessey and his employees were there to witness the runs. There were only four cars running that day, we all had a good time watching. If you scroll down on this thread, you will see John H. reply in it. I was surprised my Z06 ran that well also, but hey it did what it did.
Viper & Z06 Track Results - LS1TECH
Also, my poor 60' time is the reason I feel the car will do 11.3s easily in good weather at a better hooking track. Maybe even 11.2s if I can cut a 1.7
Viper & Z06 Track Results - LS1TECH
Also, my poor 60' time is the reason I feel the car will do 11.3s easily in good weather at a better hooking track. Maybe even 11.2s if I can cut a 1.7
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Speedfreak
Viper Owner
I am still waiting to hear how a "stock" 440 RWHP car (which is the number you indicate in your own thread) traps at 125 indicating 515 RWHP on a subpar weather day?
Speed Smith trapped the SAME as Nine as ran the SAME ET in probably A WORSE WEATHER DAY. If Smith trapped 125 and so did Nine WHY CAN Evan run the 11.5 and Nine cant?
jamie furman
Enthusiast
Weather conditions can add or take away hp depending on temperature as well as engine temp. Everything is not cut and dry, for instance if your car makes 440rwhp on the dyno and its 80degrees at the dyno site and then you run the car in the fall in 40degree dry air that is probably 30 or 40 hp right there. And I don't know where you get your horsepower figures from because I just went to Dragtimes Horsepower Calculator and this is what I got. So I don't know why you seemed so surprised? The Z06 is rated at 505 flywheel hp and that is pretty damn close to 505! Is it the old (if I can't do it you can't either story?)
Horsepower Calculator from 1/4 mile time, Trap Speed & Weight
This calculator will estimate the amount of horsepower a car
is generating at the flywheel from the car's 1/4 mile time, trap speed and weight.
is generating at the flywheel from the car's 1/4 mile time, trap speed and weight.
1/4 mile time:11.1
Trap Speed:129
Trap Speed:129
Weight of vehicle
with driver (pounds):3300
with driver (pounds):3300
Horsepower @ flywheel = 514.90 HP
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Nine Ball
Enthusiast
Please put away the 1/4 and dyno calculators, those aren't gospel. I've had dozens of cars of varying power levels, and I'm a little suprised it didn't run quicker than 125. Here are some other times I've run:
98 Firebird, 400 rwhp 346ci, 3600 lbs, 120 mph
98 Firebird, 440 rwhp 382ci, 3650 lbs, 125 mph
98 Firebird, 525 rwhp 434ci, 3650 lbs, 130 mph
05 Corvette, 505 rwhp 364ci, 3550 lbs, 130 mph
69 Camaro, 500 rwhp 346ci, 3600 lbs, 125 mph
Gearing, aerodynamics, weather, area under the HP curve, etc... also play factors in trap speeds. 125 mph is pretty common for a stock C6Z06 in the hands of a capable driver. I'm not sure why you cannot just accept this fact. Look at my 382ci combo Firebird above, it went the same trap speed with 300 more lbs and the same power.
I get my results at the track, not by a calculator. Here is an old vid, circa 2001 or 2002, of the 434ci LS6 smallblock combo I had in my blue Firebird. 6-speed manual car with A/C, leather interior, no weight removed. 129 mph trap speeds at 3650 lbs with 525 rwhp. Finals at a national bracket event.
Videos > The Cannibal vs Stock Eliminator - FQuick.com
Speedfreak
Viper Owner
Did you actually read my post above or was it too technical for you? I gave ACTUAL examples of weather affects on trap speed and horsepower production. And I am getting my numbers from the Moroso Power Speed Calculator #89650 which is as old as drag racing itself and predicts real wheel horsepower. It must be really a poor tool since it predicts my Vipers rear wheel horsepower to withn 5HP of the dynojet run I ran a week ago. I guess it just doesnt' work for the "magic" vettes that defy all the laws of physics. The fact of the matter is a stock Z should trap about 3 MPH more than a stock viper because of the weight difference. Both motors purportedly make the same horsepower at the flywheel and both chassis dyno nearly the same. Now lets take a look at the LIST YOU PROVIDED, NOT ME.
Cars 14,15,16,17,18 and 20 ALL trap between 121-122. Amazing. Isnt' that 3 MPH more than my stock viper which does 118-119 in average weather conditions. Imagine that. Now lets look at some of the good trap speeds. #3 does 11.242 @ 122.38 with a DA of +500. Gee that looks an awful lot like a stock Z trap speed. #4 11.31 @ 122.84 again, awfully close to a stock Z. Now #5 11.349 @124.97 temp 45 degrees and -800 ft. DA. #6. 11.43 @ 125.93 temp 40 degrees and -1100 ft. DA. Gee, looks the like the fast trap times all went up about 2-3 miles per hour with the negative DA - JUST LIKE MY VIPER DID A WEEK AGO.
But now we magically have Zs running at 800 ft DA that trap 125 and 126 and are supposedly stock cars. Bull****. Every other example on your list traps 121-122 in these conditions.
And by the way, it doesn't matter what the temperature is at the dyno when I run my car. It is corrected to SAE standards of 59 degrees, 29.92 inches of mercury and 50% humidity so that an apples to apples comparison of horsepower can be made when you run the car under different atmospheric conditions.
Speedfreak
Viper Owner
125MPH trap speed is not common. And not even common in the very Fast List furman provided. Of those that do run that fast they are all in significant -DA weather, which is logical and believable. The rest of the list is nearly all 121-122.
jamie furman
Enthusiast
(But now we magically have Zs running at 800 ft DA that trap 125 and 126 and are supposedly stock cars. Bull****. Every other example on your list traps 121-122 in these conditions.)
Yeah genius your statement was so technical I thought I would post it again so I could read it correctly! I don't know where you live in Fla, but there are guys there running high mph, here is a timeslip from a guy that just posted his bonestock 09 Z06.
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General Motors advertised mph is 125 mph and the determining factor on the list I provided is traction and I am not talking about 60' alone as the runflats have a tendency to break traction in 2nd and 3rd gear. If you look at the list's I provided and you look at the bone stock with tire list all the cars are trapping high 120's because the tires take the driver effect out of the equation to a great extent as far as tractibility goes. And mph has many determining factors as stated by some on this thread, and I am also one that doesn't belieive in calculators as the law and simply posted dragtimes because you said you had done your research and I didn't agree with that either.
The bottom line is the best drivers in the best weather run the best mph and et's period!
Nine Ball
Enthusiast
How about this Speedfreak. We can organize a track rental here in Houston. You buy a 1-way ticket and fly over. You can inspect the car, or even bring a GM expert with you. Also, bring maybe a grand in cash to keep it interesting. If my car is not stock (you can even check the tune) I'll give you a grand and pay for your flight home. If you are wrong, you fork over the cash when I bust off some mid-11s with ease. I probably ran 5 passes in a row in the 11.6 range, car never got cool enough to get another 11.5 that day. Most passes were 123-124 mph.
Let me help explain why your HP calculator isn't going to be accurate. I want to see if you understand this little chart I whipped up. If both of the cars in this following chart weigh the same, have the same gearing, and both make the same peak HP, which one would be faster? Blue car or Red car?
Now tell me, what exactly is the importance of peak HP values again?
Let me help explain why your HP calculator isn't going to be accurate. I want to see if you understand this little chart I whipped up. If both of the cars in this following chart weigh the same, have the same gearing, and both make the same peak HP, which one would be faster? Blue car or Red car?
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Now tell me, what exactly is the importance of peak HP values again?
Nine ,the above is almost identical to what i offered TED (RITTED )NUMERIOUS TIMES.I would fly Ted into Newark ,put him up in a hotel,and provide him with a Gen 4 Viper in stock form to race against Smith of Furman in a bone stock Z06 at Englishtown.If Ted won i would pay for ANY and ALL costs of the trip.If he lost though the money came out of his pocket.For some strange reason Ted chose to stay in Canada and benchrace on his computer.
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