Wanna chuckle, read this

MULE

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I just got back from a dealership, Aurora Dodge to be exact, laughing the whole drive. I was talking with them about trading my 19k mile 93 for a Hemi Ram. They offered me $15k for a trade in value! I laughed and told the guy it wasn't a replica. Wasn't there long enough for his reply. Maybe they will make him clean up the patches of rubber I left in the parking lot while exiting. :)

I guess it could make you feel pretty sad. Anyway, you may see my car posted in the classifieds soon.
 
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MULE

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Maybe 16.5k.

I even gave them some print outs showing similar cars going for 35-40k. Told them I realize you need to make money on the car, so I wan $30k and I will give you sticker for the Hemi. I think they just don't want to try and sell it retail, but just unload it at an auction. He said he called some guy in NY and got the figure, and the guy in NY said the auctions are loaded with these cars. I didn't bother doing the math for him... number produced per year - number wrecked = only a few still on the road.
 

Gerald Levin

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said the auctions are loaded with these cars.
Highly dubious statement. And even if there are vipers available in his imaginary mind, there is nobody, and I mean nobody, selling their low mi. 93 Viper for $15K. He would have stole your car at $25K and he must have been on crack to offer you $15k. People like that, I would do exactly what you did, turn around and laugh. They are out of touch and looking to steal rather than to deal.
 

SNKEBIT

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The actual loan values for these cars are alot lower than the prices they are selling for. Look up the NADA book, you'll be surprised. The dealer probably wasn't that far off. Rule of thumb, NEVER trade a car for a new one, Far better off to sell outright and then buy, get alot more money for your car!!!!
 

Bad_Byte

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He said he called some guy in NY and got the figure, and the guy in NY said the auctions are loaded with these cars.

Total BS my daughter works for a dealership and goes to the auctions out here in Cali. In the last couple of years I think she has seen one. I have her looking for me all the time.
 

garolittle

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The actual loan values for these cars are alot lower than the prices they are selling for. Look up the NADA book, you'll be surprised. The dealer probably wasn't that far off. Rule of thumb, NEVER trade a car for a new one, Far better off to sell outright and then buy, get alot more money for your car!!!!

Absolutely true. Whether it is a Nissan Sentra or a Lambo, just sell it outright and use the proceeds to purchase another vehicle.
 

96 GTS

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They're just trying to cheat you, plain and simple. They do it to people every day. If you have to get rid of it, sell it yourself like Snakbit said. You'll do much better. Good luck.
 

SNKEBIT

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They're not clueless, it's how they make money. And that's how it works, the more you want for your car on trade-in, the less they come down on price for the new one. I hear alot of people on here talkin' about how the value has dropped off on these cars, in reality they're holding there value alot better that the blue-book says they're worth. Try a plain-old chev or dodge, there value drops like a rock. We're lucky with the value of these cars, I don't think the value is goin' any lower. IMHO
 

Lee00blacksilverGTS

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Call Bill Pemberton at Woodhouse or Chuck Tator, IF you want to find out what the real trade in might be, they are both Viper knowledgeable and fair and they will give you the straight scoop, AND trade with you I think. And Bill will sell you a new truck and deliver it on a trailer anywhere in the US, did it for me in Maryland from Nebraska, can't speak for whether Chuck will or not. You will learn a bunch about the real value of your Viper if you talk to these guys and you will get the lowest prices from them as a Viper brother on a new truck.
 

Vreracing

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I know some of the rough trade in values for cars can be computed by taking 20% off when you drive off the dealership floor. Then compute about 10% per year after that.

Obviously doesn't account for market value.

58800.00 New
41160.00 1
37044.00 2
33339.60 3
30005.64 4
27005.08 5
24304.57 6
21874.11 7
19686.70 8
17718.03 9
15946.23 10
14351.60 11

So if the guy just ran back in the back, sat down with a calculator, and then said he called someone, he would come up with a figure close to what is above. So I can see how he would say what he said.

The big problem is that we usually know too much about Vipers and assume everyone else does too.
 

OutThere

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"Call Bill Pemberton at Woodhouse or Chuck Tator, IF you want to find out what the real trade in might be.."

I know a lot of you guys all love the people at Woodhouse.... but I called over there and spoke with Bill a few months back re: a new SRT. Got this about my modified (bout $20K worth) 95 w/ 28K miles:

"Vipers are not selling right now. Especially a Gen1 with all the problems they had. Your mods? Nah, you shouldn't expect to see ANY return on them. (Full Venzano, $6K in audio, Belanger, Corsa 3", 3" high-flow cats, plus a lot more). And it's a Gen1... even though yours had the gasket work done by a dealer in 99, IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE IT NEEDS AN ARROW REBUILD. We could probably give you $28-$30 for the car but we'd have to see it."

Yeah, OK. Look, I didn't post this back then because I didn't (and don't) feel slighted by this dealer. I don't hold it against them because like someone above said, it's a business and like any business they are looking to make as much $$ as possible. And as trades go, I consider that to be the value of my car or why else wouldn't a dealer take it if they were going to sell another car in the process? I just thought (mistakenly) that a Viper dealer would be different but they weren't. The Porsche dealer in KC offered me the same $$$. So I have a choice to either try and sell it for what I feel it is worth (at LEAST $45K) or trade it in and take the hit. Or to KEEP IT!

Now don't all you Bill Pemberton groupies come streaming out of the woodwork as again this isn't meant to be a knock on them. I understand this was just an aspect of the business of running a dealership. However, I do laugh every time I read a post from people who are just besides themselves because Pemberton sold them a car and then had it shipped. WOW. A dealership sold you a car and made arrangements to have it shipped!!! Yippee. I bought my mother a Honda once and had it shipped to her house by the dealer and I didn't really see it as such a spectacular event.
 

Gerald

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Hey, places are in business to make money plain and simple. If I owned a car dealership, I'd try and low ball the customer also. Your car has more than just $ value to you.. But to the dealer it's nothing but profit.

He only told you that price cuz that is what he wanted it for. Now wheter you sell it to him for that price or not, is up to you..

Gerald
 

Lee00blacksilverGTS

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Why would you want to trade a car like that, you could NEVER do better by trading. Better to sell private party and then cut your best lowball deal with a dealer of your choice. Try selling it outright, and to me, a Gen1/2 lover, it's even nicer than an SRT, why would you sell in the first place if you have that kind of money in it. And remember, you mod it for youself, you can never expect to get the mod money back, most buyers would rather buy a stock car. And 28-30k for a 95 ain't that bad as a TRADE, a couple of these just went for 25k retail or at auctions on ebay. I mean as a trade the next question is how much was the new car? If the SRT price was real low, then it's appropriate the trade price was low, if the SRT price was high then expect high trade in, that's the usual dealer formula to make the buyer happy with his trade in value, and with guys who walk in just convinced they have to get *** amount of dollars for their mods the dealer has only one option, inflate the price of the new car. There are some dealers that refuse to play this game and instead simply tell you.."we will charge you *** amount over invoice or we will charge you *** amount off sticker, and that is our policy towards the whole Viper community. I suggest you call Chuck Tator and Roanoke Dodge, and Eric Lee and Buehler Dodge. See if the response is any different, if they have a need for a Gen 1 you might get a better response.
 

Lee00blacksilverGTS

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Oh, one more thing, you really think I bought a car from Bill P just because he could ship it to me?? Why would I give a ***** about that? How about he beat the dealers price by about $1000 who was 5 miles away from my house INCLUDING shipping, AND he had the model and color I wanted.
 

OutThere

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Funny how you always think I am talking only to you... and thanks for the sage advice about buying and selling. Think I've picked that kind of stuff up having owned 12-13 cars.... Or was it mentioned whilst earning the Harvard MBA??? Not sure but thanks. I printed it out.

It's obviously a lot easier to trade a car in, so I was hoping they'd at least be in the range the car would be worth without even considering the mods. $30K for a stock Gen1 in car-show winning condition is a joke... add all the customization & mods and it's an insult. Especially from a dealership that specializes in Vipers. We didn't even get to discussing the SRT price. I don't consider my cars investments but I will not just throw $$ away.

Again, I am sure Bill P. does great by the people he sells too. I don't doubt everything that's posted here. I do think it's over the top to go on and on thanking a dealer for selling you a car though but it's a free Internet so gush all you want. Pemberton is one of the few volume Viper dealers and he stays on top by being price and service competitive. That's great for all of us and I recognize that.

The crap they told me about "all the Gen1's" was complete BS though and very disappointing to hear.
 

Moundir

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You should have told the dealer for 15K you better at least have some Ky jelly :eek: that's not a joke, that's an attempted rapping dude :mad:
 

SNKEBIT

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30k is about what the book value is on that car. that doesn't mean that you won't get more forit, we're lucky, people know these cars are worth more than thier "book value". Car dealers are in business to make money, why would they pay more than the book says they're worth? that's bad business. I was shocked to learn "the real value" of my car after I bought it, but yet to see anything of comparable value cheaper!! Don't get me wrong, there's always a good deal out there somewhere, but they're few and far between!!!!!!!
 

OutThere

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I wasn't being critical of you or anyone. Beyond being sarcastic about your advice (which I don't disagree with). I think it's funny that many people, including yourself, fall all over one another gushing about a car dealer who sold you a car. I quoted you here because you suggested that this person call over to Bill and I have a relevant Bill P. experience. Everyone here knows (my GOD do we know) that many, many people here love Bill P. and the entire Pemberton purchasing experience!

BTW - Wouldn't it be worth the $1,000 to have purchased the car from a dealer who is only 5 miles away rather than one in Nebraska? (Also hard to believe that the dealer wouldn't drop another $1,000 to directly compete).

For about 1.5% of the purchase price you now have: the added risk of not seeing the car beforehand (assuming you didn't fly out first); Having a car you now own shipped 1,500 miles while with a local dealer purchase you can inspect the car before signing and taking delivery; and you would have established a relationship with your local dealer where one would assume you'd want to service the car in either case; Had you had problems it would seem much easier to deal with a business 5 miles away.

Not a flame in any way, just questions because I always thought all you Bill P. guys were doing a lot better than $1,000 off a local dealer offer. If that's the case I just don't understand why you'd buy long distance. I sure wouldn't. $4-$5000 yes, then I would consider it worth the additional risks but not for only 1,000 bucks on a $70,000 car.
 

Gerald Levin

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I always thought all you Bill P. guys were doing a lot better than $1,000 off a local dealer offer. If that's the case I just don't understand why you'd buy long distance. I sure wouldn't. $4-$5000 yes, then I would consider it worth the additional risks but not for only 1,000 bucks on a $70,000 car.
OutThere, I'm with you on this. I'd rather have the local dealer match Bill P's quote, or I'd pay $1000 extra to buy this in my backyard especially since good service is important on these cars. Saving a grand on a $60-70K car means nada.
 

Lee00blacksilverGTS

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Well in the case I mentioned, actually all the cases, the purchases were new, not used, so I felt absolutely no need to inspect the vehicles. Plus Woodhouse has a reputation for not screwing up the prep on a new car. The 2 Vipers were ordered new by me and Bill was the best deal in the country by FAR, and it was more like 8-10k difference on a new 2000 over ANY dealer I could find east of the big river. New GTS's were NOT being discounted off sticker at the time. So although this was my first experience buying long distance, it certainly made sense. He also saved me tons on the extended warranty over what any east coast dealer was asking. I might have done as well with Chuck Tator, but he was not that well known on this board back in 99. And with all the positive comments regarding Bill here it was a no brainer to trust him to ship in an enclosed trailer. He also spent probably 5+ hours talking to me and educating me about the cars, as when I first contacted him I was not sure what I wanted RT10/GTS, used or new. As a matter of fact the first call I made to him was at the suggestion of some guys here because I had come on asking info about a few used cars. The suggestion was, call Bill, he loves to talk Vipers and you can pick his brain as long as you want and won't pressure you to buy from him. He gave me great info. told me one of the cars I had found was a great deal and I should pursue it and another one was a bad deal, talked to me for about an hour and did not even try to sell me a car! I eventually decided I wanted a new one and started shopping locally and kept hearing 6 months wait and over sticker prices, it did not take long for me to call Bill back as he was selling well below that level of arrogance and he could get the cars quickly as his pipeline was always full. I had the car in a few weeks at a great price and the warranty at a great price. My last great bit of confusion was RT/10 vs. GTS, I loved both and I spent my last 1/2 hour of conversation agonizing over that. Now this is in 1999.....Bill's final advice was get the GTS, when Dodge brings out the next generation in a few years it will be convertible only, the coupes will be gone for quite awhile. He had this figured out way back then. I never even MET him until VOI 7 and I was on my 3rd order for the SRT at that time, I managed to share a substantial amount of libations with him that week and felt like it's no longer just business, it's become friendship, so I will absolutely continue to support him. Just as Tony does his guy in Atlanta, Dan Robbins, I believe is his name, Chuck Tator has his legions of support too, as does John Gastman at Roanoke, and Tom Sessions in the Carolinas is also legendary. And I would buy a used Viper or anything else from ANYONE of the above list including Bill obviously, sight unseen. And that is one of the things the guys above are all famous for...representing used cars HONESTLY, when it rolls off the trailer it is BETTER than represented on the phone. And I think Bill led the way with pioneering that kind of used car trust. There are legions of guys here who have bought from the above group and unless you have talked to them you're never gonna get it, because the mantra about the bad car dealer is just so prevalent. You have to go through the buying experience with one of these guys to recognize how they are gonna change car sales by the way they treat the customer AND the way they have set themselves up to sell long distance.
 

OutThere

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"How about he beat the dealers price by about $1000 who was 5 miles away from my house INCLUDING shipping, AND he had the model and color I wanted."

Missed a zero?
 

ViperJoe

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Viper for a pick um up........uh.......who's on crack?
LOL!!!!!!

And it's NOT the auctions that are "loaded" with Vipers, it's EBAY!!!!
 

OutThere

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"...and it was more like 8-10k difference on a new 2000 over ANY dealer I could find east of the big river..."

So I am looking at paying about $72-$74 for a new SRT from Bill P.??? That'll have me posting my *** of IF it's true.
 

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