Went to New York to see SRT today... got some new info too!

[Mike Brunton]

I made the 4 hour drive to NYC today to check out the SRT, and the Lotus Elise. Saw the SRT... I really like this car! I think it looks A LOT more aggressive than the GTS does. More angular and less swoopy than the current GTS, but every bit as aggressive. I'd be more nervous if I saw an SRT in my rear-view as if I saw a GTS there. Yeah, maybe everyone disagrees but thats how I viewed it! Some observations...

-The "creases" on the fenders that you see on the top edge of the front fenders in the pictures are NONEXISTANT on the car. The whole hood just looks MASSIVE, WIIIIIDE and LOW. The whole car looks VERY wide and VERY low. Yeow!

-Rear end did not have diffuser on it... I thought the rear end would look good with a little lip spoiler like the GTS

-GOOD LUCK SEEING ANYTHING OUT THE BACK! **** , the **** behind the seats is WAY higher than any GTS! There looks to be about a 3" high "parcel shelf" and that's IT

-This car is low. Real low. Real REAL low.

-NICE big tires! 19" in back and 18" in front. Really make the car stand out nicely... good touch PVO!

-What is that stupid vent in the hood on the passenger side between hood and windshield? It was making the right side wiper not lay flat.

-Side vents are a little angular... I bet they'll be the first part of this car to look dated

-Standing in front of the car... WOW this thing is WIDE! The windshield rake is amazingly low... windshield almost looks as sloped as the hood from the front!

-Wow this car is WIDE!!!!

-It looks like it tucks in at the waist a LOT... moreso than a GTS even. It definitely retains that bulbous, angular, almost organic shape where it's tapered in the middle. You can ONLY see this when you are right up next to the car

-Love the new 345 rubber! But these were Pilot sports... I thought they were doing runflats?

-DID NOT like the non-body-colored black panel around the exhaust outlet... make it body colored PLEASE with a chrome exhaust tip


The booth ***** said it would have 500hp, "at least 500lb-ft" of torque. Does that mean HP is fixed at 500 but the torque is free to change? Hmm... I'd prefer 525hp and 525lb-ft on paper.


I found someone from Dodge standing around and struck up a conversation. This person claimed that a good friend and coworker of theirs was one of the guys who was currently doing performance testing on the car. I asked about braking... was told "much MUCH better". I asked about 1/4 mile "11.8 so far is the test #". I asked about 1/4 MPH - "can't tell you". I asked about top speed "they have had a production SRT up to 212mph on the test facility". WOW... can that be true? If so... dayum.. and I mean.... DAYUM! I asked about 0-100.. was told "9.2 seconds" (I thought the current car was 9.0? They said maybe it was 0-100-0 in 9.2? They weren't sure". I asked about delivery "first SRT's will be delivered in September... they are already preparing for production... production starts in July". I asked about the # of certificates... was told that only 750 were expected to be made the first year for sale to the public. Can that be right? I know 400 are "preallocated" for something... but that would leave 350 units short of what I thought (1,500 units). No other info was forthcoming

Can anyone confirm the #'s I posted. I'd like for them to be correct!

 

[Joseph Houss]

Mike, and all,

I was there as well yesterday.... and I have one complaint:


WHY CAN'T THEY GET THE CAR READY FOR THE SUMMER!!!!!!!

Here's a cool shot of a FLYING RAM! Very cool, helium filled and remote control, just about full size!

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Double DAYYYYYUUUUM!

I did notice (and took a picture of) something that you said wasn't there....

the rear air diffuser! It IS definitely there! (I lightened the shot up a bit so you can get a good look)

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I also TRIED to get a shot of the VIN! (00016)

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and took a pic of the tires...they WERE Pilots, but had a few extra letters in there... leading me to believe they were "zero pressure" Take a look:

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..and not to be a macho guy .... but:

I thought the leather outfits on the models fit the Dodge theme perfectly!

VERY nice DC officials at the exhibit, and they actually were respectful and knowledgable.

Bottom line?

MAKE MINE SILVER AND MAKE IT FAAAAAAASSSST!!!!

 

[Joseph Houss]

Some other cool shots:

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You must be registered for see images

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You must be registered for see images

 

[Daffy]

Mike,

Congrat's on seeing the SRT & being stoked by it.

When I saw the car last month in Columbus it was one with the rear splitter. I thought the best view of the car was from behind, it looked wide, low, and the splitters made it look like it was right off the race course. Since the rear will be the main view for most, it was nice of DC to make so pleasing

I agree on the side cuts, they are much deeper than in pics, and the rear fenders have more depth than in photo's. I felt the car looked much, much better in person than in pics.

You don't mention the interior, but that was one of the most striking areas to me, the rivot look dash, seats, bezeled shifter, etc., truly looked exotic IMHO.

Well, I better stop before this actually turns into a "positive" thread about the SRT. We wouldn't want that to happen.

Oh, and I should mention that I love the GT40 too, I wouldn't want to leave that out of a SRT thread either <snicker>

I'm still undecided, waiting for performance numbers, then I'll decide to take my red SRT or keep my black ****** & maybe dream of the GT40. Either way, it's all good.

Dave.

 

[Mike Brunton]

Joe,

Wow, I never noticed the diffuser! I didn't get down on my hands and knees - it wasn't easily visible from the back so I must have missed it. I am 6'3", and I just TOWERED over this car - it's that low! I was amazed. I was also impressed with the knowledge and friendliness of the Dodge reps. I thought the leather motif was pretty suited to the image they were setting forth... excellent performance by Dodge.

Daffy,

I forgot the interior... it looked a lot more "personal" than the inside of my GTS. It seemed a LOT smaller, and I remember thinking "oh boy, how am I gonna fit in THERE"? The seats look MUCH narrower and I'm sure they are (as others mentioned). I'm not sure there is even room to make them wider - so I should go on a diet now to be ready in time

. The windows and top were up on this car so I couldn't see in too well, but I thought the interior looked MUCH more purposeful and high quality than any previous Viper.... looked very classy inside.

Richard,

I spent some extra time checking out the panel fit... most of the panels looked good, with two exceptions. There was a black rubber gasket around the headlights - the fit was tight but the gasket had a good pencilwidth between the light assembly and the body. Being black, I did a double take thinking there was a big gap in the body but it was really just a gasket. Also, there was about a 3/8" gap between the front of the hood and the fascia.... I could get the tip of my finger in there. I think that it was probably just a quirk of a test car. I hope so anyway. As for the door handles, they were actually removed... just holes where the latches would be. I can see why too - there must have been 20 people trying to pop the doors open!

Mark,

I hear ya... but have you seen the car in person? I think if you saw it in an unbiased way, you might be pleasantly surprised. The car is MUCH more curvy than you would think from pictures, and has alot more of that Viper aggressiveness and curves than you would ever think from pictures. I saw the SRT a while back (from a distance) and for some reason this one looked alot different and MUCH better than I expected.

Soooo... can anyone comment on the numbers? 11.8 and 212mph are pretty impressive numbers!

 

[MichaelP]

Comment on 11.8 and 212mph That WOULD be nice hope it is true.
http://vca1.viperclub.org/menus/index_forums.htm

 

[GTS Dean]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph Houss:
Some other cool shots:

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[<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think
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I'm gonna
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PUKE!

 

[GTS Dean]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Richard:

The ZP does stand for zero pressure.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe so, but that tire says "ZR" as in *Z*-rated *R*adial.


Edit: I just noticed the oval to the right of the tire size designation. I can't tell what it says. To the left of the 345 tire size it says ZR.

 

[Joseph Houss]

You must be registered for see images

 

[Mike Brunton]

MES,

I was alot (and I mean a *LOT*) happier seeing the SRT in person. I was amazed at the curviness of this car. From the pictures it looks like it's just all angular. It looks like the side is just one big slab of plastic with a huge gouge taken out of it. But when I stood in front of the car, it just seeemed SOOO low that it amazed me. The passenger compartment is very narrow in comparison to the width of the car. The windows must be at least a few inches inboard of the sidesills - just like on the GTS. This car seems to sit much lower and seems to be much wider than the GTS and even the RT/10. The hood fenders are not really angular at all. The car looks like it's going 100mph standing still - moreso than the GTS's do IMO.

I was happy with the styling before the show, but I am even happier with it now. I was with my brother who never liked the SRT styling (although he never said it to me for fear of upsetting me I guess

). At the show he commented on how nice the car looked. He said "it makes your GTS look old and outdated", and I agree 100% - it looks new, evolutionary, and fast as **** just standing still!

 

[ElDiablo Viper]

Well, I saw the car too and did not like it. Sorry Mike but it does look more *** than GTS. I liked the wheels and the inside. I have a friend that can get me in to the show to sit in the car but I don't think that it is worth it. I got 02 GTS because I did no like the SRT and I'm glad that I did it. The SRT is not as hot as GTS. I would bet you that there would be more people looking at GTS. At the show there was a huge line of people looking at M3 but only few went to se SRT.

 

[King GTS]

THANKS FOR ALL THAT INFORMAION MIKE. ALTHOUGH I DON'T AGRRE WITH YOU ON MANY THINGS REGARDING THE NEW SRT, IT WAS COOL TO HAVE SOMEONE THERE WE ALL KNOW AND TRSUT, GIVING US FIRST HAND INFO.


THIS IS A COOL BOARD, WE'VE GOT PEOPLE EVERYWHERE.

 

[MES]

Are you sure you were looking at the right car? I mean this is almost totally opposite of just about everyone else that has seen the car. Do you have any full length pics from the front or side? Maybe there were some revisions on the body? Your review makes me want to go buy the SRT then I see a pic and change my mind. Maybe I need to see one in person but to me it just seems to "refined" I like the "in your face" styling of the GT-40 which reminds my alot of my GTS. I guess I'll just wait and see.

 

[Mike Brunton]

ElDiablo,

I guess opinions vary quite a bit. When I was there, the BMW area was almost empty - and this was especially of interest to me as an owner and someone with one on order. The Corvettes were not being looked at very much either... but there was a crowd several people deep around the SRT and barely enough room to get up on the stand.

I think the GTS looks dated next to an SRT... the GTS looks sort of like a rubber glove that someone inflated

. The SRT looks more like a cat... low, wide, purposeful, and all those good things. That's just how I saw it though. As for what will draw more attention - I'm willing to bet the SRT will draw every bit as much attention as a GTS. No reason to argue about it - we'll not know until they start getting delivered. But to me, the SRT looks mean and vicious... GTS looks great and always will, but current Vipers look dated next to the SRT.

Just my opinion!

 

[Gary Lashinsky]

Joe, can't open your pictures? What format are you loading them with? All others posted download.

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Mike, Thanks for sharing your opinion of the SRT. I saw it in Monterey last Fall and agree with you. The SRT interior is much nicer then the present RT-10/GTS.

No one has posted what Rag Top looks better?

Is there a rag top that can come close to 200MPH?

The SRT is not a GTS, it is a rag top and one Bad ASP Rag Top!

And I plan to keep my GTS for those moments when I want that coupe feeling!

 

[Tenney]

The SL55 recorded 202/208 mph runs in two recent tests reported by Autocar mag/UK.

 

[Venom Lover]

Mike,

I'm happy for you that you liked the car in person. Since you are Dodge's unofficial PR person for the SRT, I guess it's not surprising to hear you saying nice things.

Hey, as far as the performance numbers, 11.8 sounds pretty disappointing to me, given that people are that quick today in stock Gen II cars. Now if you had said 11.5, it would've caught my attention.

As far as top speed goes, I'll state my opinion again: irrelevant. I'll never see 189 mph, or whatever my GTS is capable of, on the street or on a track, so what do I care if the new top speed is 20 or so mph faster yet?

As far as the car looking low and wide, I find that the current RT/10 looks lower and wider. Here's a photo someone else posted a ways back with the two side-by-side.

Anyway, glad you had a good time!

 

[Tenney]

Saw the car in person and didn't have the same response as Brunton. That said, Mike seems to be able to deliver his point of view on the new car with a bit more finesse than a few of the VCA-designated chuggers and so count this post as a nomination for Mike as the official ambassador of good will for the Chapter3/VGX/SRT10.

My take - The new look is less exotic and therefore less polarizing and so that should expand the range of potential customers in theory. Whereas prior Vipers were the only choice for a domestic exotic, the new design should have more people cross-shopping the Corvette than the past car. A few customers for the prior Viper may pass on the new car in favor of a euro brand (or GT40?). For the new car to succeed on the level DC is likely hoping for, it will have to win over a few additional Vette customers, I think. Hopefully the customer base in this category is large enough to support both brands.

 

[MES]

That's a great pic Venom, got any more side by side. That's what we all need to see to make a better judgment. The SRT sure does look fat and taller from the rear. The RT/10 looks lower and a bit more narrow. I would be great to see a RT/10 & GTS lined up right beside the SRT then about 10 pics from all angles taken.

 

[MichaelP]

Mike Burton, what do you think. I thought it was suppose to be MUCH lower?

 

[Mike Brunton]

Venom,

I hear what you're saying... but first of all, please don't think I would praise the SRT even if I didn't really truly like it. I know you were kidding with the unofficial rep comment, but in all honesty, I think I was the first person who said "wait a minute... it looks like a$$" when pics of the SRT were FIRST posted way back when. I never thought the car would grow on me... but... well, here I am.

I'm not saying the SRT *is* wider or *is* lower - I honestly don't know. I also didn't manage to get the same angle that is shown in the pictures - but I do know that standing next to the door, I felt like I could use the roof as a stool to sit on. Standing in the front, the car appeared about 2 feet high. There is no doubt that anyone seeing an SRT and an RT parked side by side would say the SRT looks lower and wider. Maybe it isn't dimensionally lower or wider, but it sure looks like it (except in that picture LOL). In all seriousness, that picture is canted so that the RT is lower in the picture, it also shows a straight-on rear shot of the RT while showing a slight 3/4 shot of the SRT - it's not a very good way to compare them equally. That picture does show one nice SRT feature though... the massive (19") rear wheels on the SRT, compared to the dinky 17" rolling pins the older cars had (I know, I know... '99... I know).

As for the top speed - I don't think it's irrelevant. I agree that none of us will ever see that - and if we do we're nuts, but it's good for bragging rights. Bragging rights are irrelevant I hear some say? Not entirely, I don't think. The breaking of the 200mph barrier will add mystique to the car, it will enhance it's reputation here and abroad, and it will be a point of conversation and drooling for those that want one.

I'm amazed to say this, but I actually agree 100% with what Rick Martino posted

. The current Viper was great... it's destined to be a classic... it will be fondly remembered by lots of folks, and I expect it will always hold a special place in all of our hearts. But that party is over... the band is finishing up their last song, and most of the folks have already left the party after having a great time. There are a few folks standing around saying "Hey, I know an all night bar! The party doesn't have to stop, let's go there!" and some are gonna go do that, but alot of us are preparing for the even bigger party tonight.

Lest some folks think I am just a shill for Dodge, I do have some things I DON'T like about the SRT. First of all, I would like to see more colors. If more production is a goal, why not more colors? I'd have liked yellow. I am 'settling' for red and I don't like that. Second, I think the vents on the side are too angular. They took a styling concept and did it to an extreme - they should make it a bit more curvey without sacrificing the overall look. Third, I think if they rate this car at 500/525, it's just a stupid incremental increase over what we have now. In '96, the Viper was comparing with 330hp Corvettes, 360hp Porsches, etc. Now, the Vette is alot lighter and already at 405hp - with 435 likely coming. The Porsches are nipping at our heels too. If Dodge plans to get an 8 year run without any engine output changes out of the SRT like they did with the GTS, then we're gonna be falling by the wayside pretty quickly. It won't take long for GM, Porsche, and even Ford to catch up and overtake us. Dodge needs to start at 525/525 and have 550/550 waiting and ready to go in 2-3 years at the most.

 

[BigsViper]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike Brunton:
....But that party is over... the band is finishing up their last song, and most of the folks have already left the party after having a great time. There are a few folks standing around saying "Hey, I know an all night bar! The party doesn't have to stop, let's go there!"
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mike,...Buddy..., I think you are taking this "mature, grown-up" analogy a bit too far. From your quote we are to assume that the SRT guys can't keep up with the real party-ers and went home early. Maybe you spent too much time with me and Pemberton and the other geezers at road Atlanta!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike Brunton:
Lest some folks think I am just a shill for Dodge...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Too late to try to back out of this one....

Since my opinion on this issue is buried in some thread back where this debate first began, and since everyone else doesn't mind stating theirs ad finitum I'll rehash...

I'm not wild about the SRT looks and won't buy one right away, I didn't even seek a certificate. However, after all the guys like Mike and Steve serve as first year guinea pigs so DC can develop a new hard top (or maybe Autoform) and get any bugs out, and I get to ride in or maybe drive one, I may change my tune.

It's like I've always said, the only thing better than having a (insert toy here) is having a friend with one that will let you use it. (Until you want one so much you (and your friend) tire of asking permission).

I'm glad DC made the changes as I feel it will help insure that the GenII's become classics (I believe the GenI's already are). In addition I want DC to sell a lot of the SRT's and make money and stay healthy, if for no other reason than to preserve jobs. I'm sure they spent lot's of resources studying the desires of the overall high end auto buyer, not just the 14,000 or so of us that have already bought a Viper. Still, they did ask for and receive our input (good or bad) which is in itself pretty unusual.

The big debate between those that like the SRT and those that don't boils down to this, If you like the old styling there are still lots to choose from, go buy a new 2002 or 2001 now, while they are still available. If you like the new, then you are excited with the offering and only have a few more months to wait! But don't feel bad if not all current or future Viper owners love the SRT as much as you do.

Personally, I can't wait for Mike to get his SRT, so he can prove to me how great it looks and feels from the drivers seat... His SRT, MY seat!!!

 

[Mike Brunton]

Bigs,

Good response

As for my analogy, I didn't mean that the old Viper guys coulnd't keep up - just that the GenI/GenII chapter (a glorious chapter too - riddled with ALMS/LeMans wins, blistering performance #'s, etc) is closing, and a new one is starting.

Bigs, you are free to take my SRT out for a whipping whenever you like - even if you end up hating how it looks after driving it

, I won't mind - I'll still love it and you'll still be free to drive it.

One more comment... Venom Lover, I think the 11.8 number is VERY VERY significant. We all know that the existing Viper has never been rated at anything below 12.2 by the major automotive rags. The fact that some of us can get in the mid 11's by launching the cars REALLY hard doesn't have much to do with what the magazine guys can do - and those guys test alot of cars under similar conditions. That 11.8 number is comparable to 12.2... not to the 11.5x's that one guy got on a great track with a super-dump of the clutch and a slick-like 60' time. We both know that the REAL story will be the MPH of that 11.8 run - if it's 123 or better, then we're talking alot of power (power to weight really, I guess) over a GTS. The magazines get 12.2@118 from the existing snake. If they can wring an 11.8@123, I will be VERY impressed with the SRT. We can leave it to guys like Jamie and Jason to squeeze the stunning ET's from the car... I'm happy that 'regular' drivers can get 11.8's.

 

[BigsViper]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike Brunton:
Bigs, you are free to take my SRT out for a whipping whenever you like - even if you end up hating how it looks after driving it

, I won't mind - I'll still love it and you'll still be free to drive it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I doubt I would end up hating it Mike, I've never said I hated the SRT or the looks. More like I would continue to choose not to buy one. Hate is such a powerful word

Anyway, according to my current priorities one toy at a time is enough so if I did fall head over heels for your SRT the GTS would probably have to go first, and I just can't imagine that now... Of course, I could be wrong

No Flames Intended - Just Observation

 

[Mike Brunton]

Bigs,

I was just teasing you - like when I said "if you still end up hating how it looks after you drive it", inferring that alot of the folks that don't like it might change their tune after they drive one.

We've discussed this and I think you have a very mature and reasonable opinion on the new car that I completely respect. I can see why alot of folks prefer the GTS styling over the SRT - if the SRT was the 'old' Viper and GTS was the new one, I wonder what people would think? Hmm.. interesting question. I wonder if we'd all be saying they "globbified" it, or if we'd like it? I tend to think the former, which is further evidence that SRT and GTS folks are, largely, two different markets.

 

[MichaelP]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Richard:
I got a sick feeling in my stomach and decided right then that my RT/10 was going to be leaving, even if I couldn't get the new SRT Viper.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


So Richard where is your 2000 is up for sale? I know a guy looking for one.

 

[garolittle]

With all this talk about how wide the SRT is no one seems to be able to answer one simple question .... "Officially, how wide is the SRT-10?". I keep hearing 84 inches, 80 inches, 74 inches. Anyone know the answer?

 

[Mike Brunton]

Garo,

I believe Rick Martino measured it to be 0.4" wider than the current Viper. Do a search on his posts and you'll see. Then again, I dont know if that was a preproduction car or not, but I would imagine it won't change.

 

[garolittle]

Thanks Mike. It is strange that so many people seem to think the car will be up to 84 inches wide.