What I had heard about sidepipes, V-10...

[JonB]

4-5 SVE-Team Viper guys told me that, too. All with a VERRY straight face.

The Cobra R, and SVT trucks "resurrected" drive-by sound regs. and sidepipes. I believe that EURO specs forbid sidepipes and still do!

Watch for a rear-exit EURO version in my crystal ball !

JonB

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Actually, because of some new technology, the side pipes are going to be on the new Viper. You guys are going to go nuts when you hear how they got it to pass emissions! Thanks goes out to Team Viper for fighting to get this great feature back.

 

[Venom Lover]

Anyone have any insight whether each side pipe will carry exhaust from only 5 of the cylinders, as in the Gen I? Or is there some clever way to combine the exhaust from both banks of cylinders and still have side pipes? Just curious.

 

[Steve Ferguson]

According to Dodge PR, information on the "chapter 3" Viper will be slowly released over the next year. Look for magazine spreads for photo spreads, then some actual prototype testing. Once these are revealed, you should start to get a glimpse of what really lies under this monster.

The sound (which a high ranking Chrysler official could not stand)and Federal regulations are why the sidepipes went away. At least that is how Team Viper explained the return.

 

[Venom Lover]

Steve,

I'm confused. If a high-ranking Chrysler official couldn't stand the sound of the Gen I side pipes, how does this explain their return on Gen III?

I would love to see side pipes on the Gen III car whether or not they have the same "awkward" sound of the Gen I. However, I'm holding out hope that somehow this has been resolved.

Steve, you seem to have excellent intel on the Gen III car. What do you know about the implementation of the side pipes and the sound quality? (If there will be side pipes at all....)

 

[Joseph Houss]

As many have said, Team Viper listened to all our suggestions, many wanted the sidepipes to return...but with a much better sound.....your wish is their command!

 

[Steve Ferguson]

The sidepipes are a GO!

I said that they did not like the SOUND of the old RT10. This new one sounds and looks great. Thanks goes out to Team Viper for finding a way to make this Viper icon return!

To all, please remember that this is NOT a Concept Car, but rather what the final production 2003 RT10 will look like. There may be a few subtle changes, but believe me they will be hard to detect.

 

[Roland L-Ocala FL]

My '94 may sound like a UPS truck at idle, but stomp on it and the note changes quite a bit. Granted that I would like a gutsier (rumble) sound, but I had a 340 Six Pak Challenger, and that was loud as heck, but it did make a nice rapping sound. If I could get some of that back into the Viper, then it would have everything I want. What will the new 2003 cost, does anyone have any idea at all? The 2003 car looked great at the NAIAS in Detroit, especially the sidepipes. From what I could see, the hood will open separate from the fenders, so fender mats will be a must!

 

[SoCal Rebell]

Anybody know what trunk space will be like on the 03',top up and down?

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Top up or down has no affect on the trunk space. They are two separate compartments. To the eye, the new trunk is much larger than previous RT10 ones. You gain a lot of space by having the Run-Flat tires.

 

[Jay Herbert]

I just typed a huge explanation of why/how the Vipers Side Pipes are made to sound awesome, then pondered a minute, and had to erase it.

We were requested to only talk about what is presented at the press release and "visible" at the autoshow display. If you know what you are looking for, you can get a hint of what was done to make a Viper "side-pipable", but you really can't see it..... look for details to be released, but I can tell you it is REALLY COOL.

At this time, no BUX version..... if you want one in Europe, you may need to go through our neighbors in the great white north..... Someone has to pay for the homolgamation......

Trunk space is very good, top up or down.

 

[SoCal Rebell]

I didn't know the 2003s would have run flats. I thought you could not get a run flat tire in a Z rating.

 

[Steve Ferguson]

The sound on the Chapter 3 Viper is better than many current Vipers with exhaust modifications! It sounds like a Viper should sound.Yes, the hood will now only be a hood, and not an entire front piece. I have been able to view it open and it is going to be much easier for you to now work on the engine. That surprised me.

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Tom and Brian from Michelin sat with us during the intro of the new RT10. They were like proud parents concerning the "run-flat" issue!

I asked them, "can a run-flat hit speeds around 200?". Tom replied, "this one WILL!"

I can't wait to see the test results from the chapter 3 Viper!!

 

[Paul Fischer]

Better sound from stock sidepipes? You know, this design is growing on me. And if it runs strong on runflats it will be a monster on a "real" tire

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. Thanks for the input Steve, and to your charming wife for accepting everything that the wife of the Viper nation's #1 civilian must endure. And most of all thanks to Team Viper or listening!

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Paul and all,

One of the reasons the new Viper was released so early was so that all of the information on the new goodies could roll out over a longer stretch of time. Judging by what I saw, heard and felt, we have only seen the tip of the iceberg. When all is said and done, this new version could very well be the greatest sports car value ever put together. And if it goes really well, the VCA members are going to get to experience it FIRST!!!

Let the feeding frenzy begin.

 

[Marv S]

GEN 3 sound. Did they figure out a way to tie both sides of the exhaust together way upstream?

That would effect the sound. The "unique" sound we get today is not so much because there are 5 on each side. The Viper V-10 has a cylinder-bank angle of 90 degrees instead of the theoretically correct 72 degrees. This produces an uneven firing pattern. The interval between power pulses alternates Between 54 degrees and 90 degrees of crankshaft rotation. The resulting sound is "out of phase, out of sync, out of harmonic" depending on your frame of reference.

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Marv, you will know within the next year of how the system will work. It it totally new, and if it stays the same it sounds great. BTW, Dodge is calling this next version "Chapter 3". The feeling is that Gen anything refers to another company.

 

[JonB]

I agree w/ Jay that my "crystal ball" about a Euro-Spec Gen-III is premature ! No Euro Gen-III for a while! We'll get the bugs out for ya !!

Also, you folks that "heard" the new car.....Do you think you heard the new 500 X 3 Motor in that Detroit show car?

My crystal-balling and your hints here, reminds me of the exhaust system design reminiscent of my StealthTT...Hmmmmm....

RunFlats. My concern is not that they go 200mph....but what do they WEIGH? vs Track wheels/tires. John Purner, get ready !!!

"Chapter 3"? I sure like "Evolution-3" or "Iteration-3" or even Generaton-III. But if DODGE says "Chapter-3" then so be it !

 

[Brad Manhattan Beach]

RunFlats. My concern is not that they go 200mph....but what do they WEIGH? vs Track wheels/tires. John
Purner, get ready !!!


Jon B,

I agree with your concerns about weight of the Run Flats. Didn't our competitor (GM) just eliminate the Run Flats to reduce overall weight and corner weighting with the Z06? This has got to affect handling and weight. Is the Run Flat any safer at high speeds (relative to high speed tread separation)?

As usual Jon B, you make some very valid points.

Brad

Ps: How is the new job going for you?

 

[Jay Herbert]

I think the reason the engine was not shown was to allow continual release of info, plus, it is likely that they did not have all the "appearance" details of the engine to "AutoShow" specs

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.

Like Steve said, the Viper Engineers where actually disappointed that the person "did not get on it" when the engine was fired at the show..... It really was very close to the production car, and not "delicate" like many show cars.

Let Chapter three begin!

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Brad, Michelin assured us that these are not the same run-flats on the GM car. This is a new process that will distinguish Viper as a technological test bed for future Michelin products. Lets just hope that GM was the guinea pig and we get to enjoy the fruits of their misery!

 

[Marv S]

Michelin's on the GM cars? Isn't GM using Goodyear Eagle F1 GS tires on the
non z06 Vettes?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Steve Ferguson:
Brad, Michelin assured us that these are not the same run-flats on the GM car. This is a new process that will distinguish Viper as a technological test bed for future Michelin products. Lets just hope that GM was the guinea pig and we get to enjoy the fruits of their misery!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[Brad Manhattan Beach]

Marv:

You are absolutely correct that Goodyears are on the Corvettes. I was alluding to the fact that any Run Flat is heavier than a convetional tire, and would impact weight and handling of a car. I think that Steve is saying that Michelin will learn from goodyears mistakes. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Regards,

Brad <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Marv S:
Michelin's on the GM cars? Isn't GM using Goodyear Eagle F1 GS tires on the
non z06 Vettes?


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[Venom Lover]

I would gladly give up trunk space for lower overall weight and better handling with Pilot Sports or MXX3's. I do like the idea of 345's. It seems odd, though, that for a car that continues not to make compromises (e.g., over 7 ft wide and so won't fit in many garages or trailers), a compromise seems to have been made with the tires. Is it conceivable that Michelin has produced run-flats that will outperform any other type of tire?

In my opinion, DC should put the tires on the Chapter III car that maximize performance. To hell with trunk space! Otherwise, I agree, Purner better start tooling up.

Oh, one final comment. Isn't the terminology "Gen I" and "Gen II" well-accepted at this point? So now we have:

Gen I
Gen II
Chapter III

Hmmmm....

However, whatever DC calls it, and whether or not they compromise on the tires, I'll probably have to buy one (unless they price goes way up).

You must be registered for see images

 

[Steve Ferguson]

If they hit the target price, all current owners will be ecstatic!!!

 

[Paul Fischer]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Steve Ferguson:

... When all is said and done, this new version could very well be the greatest sports car value ever put together.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dare say Dodge has already achieved that in the Chapter II car.

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Jon, according to the Team, and judging from their disappointing reaction to the show driver not jumping on the throttle, I am certain that this was the Chapter 3 engine.

As for the exhaust, I doubt that it has any relation to the Stealth system. They were very clear that this is a new application, and when they described how it worked I am sure that it is. From my recollection, this method has only appeared once before, and another manufacturer did it.

As for Chapter 3, that discussion came up quite a bit. This is what Marketing, Management, PR and the Team will be using. We may as well get on board. Gen refers to "another manufacturer" is their eyes